Miami Police Shooting: Cop shoots man while hands are up

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

The video shows a man lying in the street, holding his hands in the air.

 

"All he has is a toy truck," the man shouts. "I am a behavior therapist at a group home."

 

Charles Kinsey said the footage, released by his attorney, shows the moment Monday when he tried to convince North Miami police not to harm his patient, a 23-year-old with autism who was sitting on the ground beside him.

 

"I was more worried about him than myself," Kinsey told CNN affiliate WSVN-TV in Miami. "As long as I've got my hands up, they're not gonna shoot me, that's what I'm thinking," Kinsey said. "Wow, was I wrong."

 

Now Kinsey is hospitalized with a gunshot wound.

 

More...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/us/miami-officer-involved-shooting/

 

 

This demonstrates the fallacy behind the recurring argument that police shootings are entirely reliant on civilian compliance/demeanor.

[techbeck]

3 minutes ago, JHBrown said:

This demonstrates the fallacy behind the recurring argument that police shootings are entirely reliant on civilian compliance/demeanor.

For the most part, comply not to be shot.  But there are screw ups in every aspect of life.

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

16 minutes ago, techbeck said:

For the most part, comply not to be shot.

Scary.

[dead.cell]

14 minutes ago, techbeck said:

But there are screw ups in every aspect of life.

"My bad bruh, didn't mean to end your life."

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

Cops as anyone else make mistakes. Why did the police have Assault rifles pointed? there obviously  was not a need for excessive force. I believe these two Cops are not going to be cops very much longer.

[techbeck]

2 minutes ago, JHBrown said:

Very scary though.

Cop probably was nervous, or freaked because of recent events.  No excuse for what happened.  Just hope some idiot does not decide it is their duty to retaliate.

[+JHBrown Subscriber¹]

5 minutes ago, Gary7 said:

Cops as anyone else make mistakes. Why did the police have Assault rifles pointed? there obviously  was not a need for excessive force. I believe these two Cops are not going to be cops very much longer.

 

2 minutes ago, techbeck said:

Cop probably was nervous, or freaked because of recent events.  No excuse for what happened.  Just hope some idiot does not decide it is their duty to retaliate.

What's your opinion on charges, if any, for this Police Officer? @Gary7 you are a retired Police Officer, and would love your opinion.

[+Gary7 Subscriber²]

1 minute ago, JHBrown said:

 

What's your opinion on charges, if any, for this Police Officer? @Gary7 you are a retired Police Officer, and would love your opinion.

It will have to be reviewed , from what I saw he can be charged with aggravated assault . He also can not be charged. It depends on the victim and how far he wants to take this. If it were me I would take it as far as possible. I did not even see a need for the officers to have weapons out. But all police throughout the nation are on edge due to the evens in Dallas and elsewhere. It seems that the 911 call was wrong. There is a stronger case here than they had in Baltimore.

[DocM]

The news here reports the cop was asked why he fired and he replied "I don't know."

 

Proper firearms handling is to keep your finger out of the trigger guard until have to fire. Tactical training 101. I prefer the low ready position if there's >7 meters to the subject. Note her finger position.

 

 

My guess is the cop didn't do this and twitched. That's all it takes. AIUI he's on desk duty pending the investigation, which IMO needs to be very short.

 

Pay the man, fire the cop and charge him with assault and unlawful discharge.

[Jim K Global Moderator]

Yep, whichever cop fired their weapon needs to be gone....today.

[restroom]

8 hours ago, Gary7 said:

It will have to be reviewed , from what I saw he can be charged with aggravated assault . He also can not be charged. It depends on the victim and how far he wants to take this. If it were me I would take it as far as possible. I did not even see a need for the officers to have weapons out. But all police throughout the nation are on edge due to the evens in Dallas and elsewhere. It seems that the 911 call was wrong. There is a stronger case here than they had in Baltimore.

Totally agree. He is compliant throughout and is obviously not a threat. The officers also said it was the autistic guy they thought had the gun... I just can't see any excuse for this. It's the forest time I've seen footage that actually legitimise the BLM movement. Usually the videos of shootings we see the person not helping themselves, but this guy was totally compliant.

 

If I was American I'd definitely look at rethinking my view on this whole BLM thing after this.

8 hours ago, DocM said:

The news here reports the cop was asked why he fired and he replied "I don't know."

 

Proper firearms handling is to keep your finger out of the trigger guard until have to fire. Tactical training 101. I prefer the low ready position if there's >7 meters to the subject. Note her finger position.

 

 

My guess is the cop didn't do this and twitched. That's all it takes. AIUI he's on desk duty pending the investigation, which IMO needs to be very short.

 

Pay the man, fire the cop and charge him with assault and unlawful discharge.

Completely agree.

[restroom]

The poor bloke who got shot should be given enough money not to have to worry about life's money problems for the rest of his life.

 

He and anyone else shot unlawfully by police that is.

[chrisj1968]

9 hours ago, JHBrown said:

Scary.

I read the article as did my wife. they guy did comply. What I realized from a soldier perspective and NO cop should do this as it's even a no-no by tactical professionals is , "why did this officer have his finger on the trigger?" most videos of pro teaching firearm use always say, put your trigger finger to the side of the weapon away from the trigger UNTIL you decide to fire. this cop screwed up badly. This may have given some legitimacy to BLM unfortunately.  

14 minutes ago, restroom said:

Totally agree. He is compliant throughout and is obviously not a threat. The officers also said it was the autistic guy they thought had the gun... I just can't see any excuse for this. It's the forest time I've seen footage that actually legitimise the BLM movement. Usually the videos of shootings we see the person not helping themselves, but this guy was totally compliant.

 

If I was American I'd definitely look at rethinking my view on this whole BLM thing after this.

Completely agree.

exactly! All profesisonal tactical trainers teach to keep ones finger out of the trigger guard but close by it like in this illustration

 

[chrisj1968]

 

[restroom]

9 minutes ago, chrisj1968 said:

 

Ha! VERY appropriate video. If only the officer had watched this before going on duty.

[DocM]

Detroit PD had a big run of AD's with a resulting "Glock Leg" syndrome, then they switched to firearms with DAO triggers. 90% reduction, but you have to wonder about the other 10%.  

[Tomo]

2 hours ago, chrisj1968 said:

I read the article as did my wife. they guy did comply. What I realized from a soldier perspective and NO cop should do this as it's even a no-no by tactical professionals is , "why did this officer have his finger on the trigger?" most videos of pro teaching firearm use always say, put your trigger finger to the side of the weapon away from the trigger UNTIL you decide to fire. this cop screwed up badly. This may have given some legitimacy to BLM unfortunately.  

 

 

Totally agree, US cops need to be retrained to the standards the military is trained to. As a British Army veteran I cannot see any reason why the cop should shoot, even if he was nervous, there was absolutely no risk to human life, even if the guy pulled out a weapon there would still be plenty of time to pull the trigger.

[ctebah]

11 hours ago, jjkusaf said:

Yep, whichever cop fired their weapon needs to be gone....today.

And to never have access to guns again.

[DocM]

5 hours ago, Tomo said:

Totally agree, US cops need to be retrained to the standards the military is trained to. As a British Army veteran I cannot see any reason why the cop should shoot, even if he was nervous, there was absolutely no risk to human life, even if the guy pulled out a weapon there would still be plenty of time to pull the trigger.

They are trained to that standard, but in many departments recertification is infrequent and cursory. Some cops never recertify, or even practice with their weapon, after hiring in. It's an ornament until the fur flies.

 

Say what you want about NRA, but it has the largest number of traininers outside of the military, many/most of them ex-military, but many departments fail to leverage it in the absense of PD resources.

[Tomo]

40 minutes ago, DocM said:

They are trained to that standard, but in many departments recertification is infrequent and cursory. Some cops never recertify, or even practice with their weapon, after hiring in. It's an ornament until the fur flies.

 

Say what you want about NRA, but it has the largest number of traininers outside of the military, many/most of them ex-military, but many departments fail to leverage it in the absense of PD resources.

Ah i see, in that case cops should be made to at least do some weapon familiarisation and practice periodically. If they are comfortable holding the weapon and being in a pressured situation then there could be less incidents like this.

[Argi]

I have much respect for police offices but every time someone is shot by an officer it should be a big deal.  Shoot first, ask questions later?  It used to be that you had to see a gun first.

[DocM]

16 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Ah i see, in that case cops should be made to at least do some weapon familiarisation and practice periodically. If they are comfortable holding the weapon and being in a pressured situation then there could be less incidents like this.

 

This plays into a stat published in Newsweek (liberal mag)  some years ago;

 

cops are 5x as likely to shoot an innocent bystander as a civilian with a carry permit - 11% vs 2% of incidents. 

 

The difference is such civilians tend to practice, a lot. I burn through 200-300 handgun rounds a month. Family members who are licensed are the same.  

 

A cop may recert once every 2-4 years, which is often firing as few as 50 sounds.

 

It varies widely by department, with some having no recert requirement at all and some being quite good. 

 

 

[chrisj1968]

2 hours ago, DocM said:

They are trained to that standard, but in many departments recertification is infrequent and cursory. Some cops never recertify, or even practice with their weapon, after hiring in. It's an ornament until the fur flies.

 

Say what you want about NRA, but it has the largest number of traininers outside of the military, many/most of them ex-military, but many departments fail to leverage it in the absense of PD resources.

Good cops will always keep themselves up on their training. the military are required to qualify with their weapons twice a year. the training sticks with you, kind of like the once you learn to ride a bike, you always remember.

 

TBH, this officer deserves what he has coming to him. not to acquiesce BLM but to keep to a moral of being held accountable for ones actions

[techbeck]

10 minutes ago, chrisj1968 said:

 

TBH, this officer deserves what he has coming to him. not to acquiesce BLM but to keep to a moral of being held accountable for ones actions

If he gets anything coming to him.  Police calling it an accident and the target was the autistic man and the officer just missed.  Claims that the police could not hear what Charles Kinsey was saying and thought he was in danger.

[chrisj1968]

9 minutes ago, techbeck said:

If he gets anything coming to him.  Police calling it an accident and the target was the autistic man and the officer just missed.  Claims that the police could not hear what Charles Kinsey was saying and thought he was in danger.

But the police have to uphold and obey the same laws too. if someone accidentally shoots another, the cops hold the shooter accountable. Police aren't above the law. unfortunately, if a department says it was just an accident, then you know how deep the corruption is in a particular department. if they cover this up and he gets off, that department needs to be held accountable.