White Cop Acquitted of Killing 2 Unarmed Black People


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White cop shoots 2 unarmed black people who were..... wait for it....wait for it ...... RUNNING FROM THE COPS !  I know!  Shocking !

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However, this time it actually sounds like a "Less than Fatal" method would have been more appropriate.

As far as all of the other cases - I side with the cops.  This time however - after reading the article - not too sure.

Of course, one could make the argument, "thats what you get for running from the police" but I dont think it deserved a shootout.

Simple fact, they couldnt prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, this cop delivered the fatal shots.... because there 137 shots from multiple officers !

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So....

The couple's car had backfired as it drove past Cleveland police headquarters, and police thought the sound was a gunshot.

They call that "probable cause" that shots may have been fired. There's your justified reason to pursue them.

...opened fire on Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams during a police chase on November 29, 2012.

So when pursued instead of stopping and surrendering to clear matters up, they engaged in a highly dangerous car chase which could have injured or killed officers or innocent 3rd parties.

Dumb as it reinforced what the cops suspected. It doesn't matter if they were unarmed, their behavior lead the cops to reasonably believe otherwise because Cleveland, like Detroit, is plagued by drive-by shootings.

There's a standard known as the Fleeing Felon Rule. It states that firing on a fleeing suspect by the police is allowed under certain conditions. These conditions were established in the US Supreme Court decision Tennessee v. Garner,

When the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, it is not constitutionally unreasonable to prevent escape by using deadly force.

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Do you know what British police do when a police chase enters a residential area? They back off, and if necessary, they terminate pursuit.  Better to let someone get away than cause a fatal incident by continuing the pursuit. Another thing they don't do is open fire unless the suspect is clearly armed or posing a direct threat to public safety.  Of course, it does rather help that only specially trained officers are actually armed so don't tend to spray and pray.

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Do you know what British police do when a police chase enters a residential area? They back off, and if necessary, they terminate pursuit.  Better to let someone get away than cause a fatal incident by continuing the pursuit. Another thing they don't do is open fire unless the suspect is clearly armed or posing a direct threat to public safety.  Of course, it does rather help that only specially trained officers are actually armed so don't tend to spray and pray.

 

I'll keep that in mind in case I rob a British bank or something.

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Not sure that's entirely justified. It sounds like the couple were surrounded by armed police, so they'd have to have been crazy to shoot at officers at the point when the officer climbed in the bonnet and killed them. Did he try any less lethal means of dealing with them first? 

 

Admittedly the couple were beyond stupid to flee the police. That said, the same thing probably would've happened even if they'd stopped. If the officer truly thought the couple had fired shots, his life would have been in danger irregardless of whether he'd caught up to them after a chase or straight away. 

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I'll keep that in mind in case I rob a British bank or something.

come and try your luck you will soon find your self on the wrong end of a mp5. but if your planning a hist to rob the crown jewels then our friendly SAS will be happy to "eliminate" the threat

 

but going back to what floatingfatman said, it also helps that our cops are not wound up tighter than a clockwork mouse.

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come and try your luck you will soon find your self on the wrong end of a mp5. but if your planning a hist to rob the crown jewels then our friendly SAS will be happy to "eliminate" the threat

 

but going back to what floatingfatman said, it also helps that our cops are not wound up tighter than a clockwork mouse.

 

I wasn't aware that your police were running around with automatic weapons. That sounds worse than the United States!

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I wasn't aware that your police were running around with automatic weapons. That sounds worse than the United States!

 

They're not, but the armed units we DO have, who respond only when called to a situation requiring them, are. And not only MP5's, but sniper rifles too, in case they're required to take out someone in a hostage situation.

 

They also don't miss.

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Suspects were unarmed. Vehicle was surrounded. Over 130 shots were fired. One of the officers jumped onto the car and fired 15 shots at point blank range through the windscreen. And yet the police actions were deemed reasonable.

 

Does anyone in America really think this is acceptable policing? Even with all the pro-gun propaganda put out by Hollywood I find it astounding that anyone could consider this justified or it acceptable that the police officers involved were acquitted. They should be in jail for murder. Policing in the US is absolutely insane.  :angry:


They're not, but the armed units we DO have, who respond only when called to a situation requiring them, are. And not only MP5's, but sniper rifles too, in case they're required to take out someone in a hostage situation.

 

They also don't miss.

Indeed. The murderers of Lee Rigby were shot in a non-lethal manner after charging the police with a knife. Police in the US shoot to kill because of poor training and fear.

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I'll keep that in mind in case I rob a British bank or something.

 

haha, drive a nut case though a neighborhood and you get away! 

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Suspects were unarmed. Vehicle was surrounded. Over 130 shots were fired. One of the officers jumped onto the car and fired 15 shots at point blank range through the windscreen. And yet the police actions were deemed reasonable.

The cops didn't know they were unarmed, and had probable cause to believe otherwise. Their fleeing certainly tended to make them think it was a drive-by, and with that planted they aren't going to take chances.

Does anyone in America really think this is acceptable policing?

Even with all the pro-gun propaganda put out by Hollywood....

Hollyweird doesnt enter into tactical training. You're trained to fire until the threat is neutralized. No shoot to wound, and no shot counting other than to shoot in volleys. With multiple cops and firearms with 17-19 rounds each those shots add up.

I find it astounding that anyone could consider this justified or it acceptable that the police officers involved were acquitted. They should be in jail for murder. Policing in the US is absolutely insane. :angry:

The jury agreed with the cops. When charged by the judge they're given sets of aggravating and mitigating circumstances. If mitigating outnumbers aggravating that's reasonable doubt and you must acquit.

Indeed. The murderers of Lee Rigby were shot in a non-lethal manner after charging the police with a knife. Police in the US shoot to kill because of poor training and fear.

Police in the US know that within ~21 feet a knife weilder has the tactical advantage and can kill you before you can fire. This is trained for in the Tueller Drill.

They're also trained not to shoot to wound because its a low percentage shot which can ricochet or fly wide and wound an innocent party a mile away. The training is shoot higher percentage shots to the center of mass; torso, abdomen or head. Those kill.

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haha, drive a nut case though a neighborhood and you get away! 

 

Well, no, not really. Y'see, in a modern police force, the officers are equipped with 2 things American officers seem to lack.  Radio's and brains.  Just because they let you go during a chase, doesn't mean they won't pick you up later when you don't expect it.

 

Our cops also don't do that ridiculously dangerous PIT manoeuvre your cops love.  Instead, they implement a rolling roadblock by boxing you in on all sides and steering you away from civilians, then stopping you safely.

 

Of course, not everything is perfect, and sometimes someone gets shot that shouldn't , but we have far less incidents of such a thing, even taking into account proportional differences in our populations.

Police in the US know that within ~21 feet a knife weilder has the tactical advantage and can kill you before you can fire. This is trained for in the Tueller Drill.

They're also trained not to shoot to wound because its a low percentage shot which can ricochet or fly wide and wound an innocent party a mile away. The training is shoot higher percentage shots to the center of mass; torso, abdomen or head. Those kill.

 

And yet our cops are able to shoot to wound quite successfully, without hitting any bystanders at all. Funny that.

 

I don't think it's anything to do with training either, really, it's attitude.  Our soldiers see the same thing in the battlefield as well.  Hell, it's a standing joke that when you're in the same theatre of operations as US forces, the safest place to be, is elsewhere.

 

Americans invented the "Shock & Awe" tactic not because it was massively effective, but because it's the only way they can actually hit anything. :p

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>

Of course, not everything is perfect, and sometimes someone gets shot that shouldn't , but we have far less incidents of such a thing, even taking into account proportional differences in our populations.

Because the criminals your cops deal with vs. what's crawling around the streets of Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland etc. are minor league. Our street gangs, which do drive-bys daily, make yours look like little girls. Seriously.

And yet our cops are able to shoot to wound quite successfully, without hitting any bystanders at all. Funny that.

/sigh.....

You harp on about cops being influenced by Hollywood and then show a horrible example of it yourself!!

Shots to the extremities, wounding shots, are successful <10% of the time. That means 90% of the time that bullet is going somewhere else - and out of control. This is why wounding attempts are usually ILLEGAL. If you shoot its taught shoot for center of mass, the higher percentage shot, in part to reduce the likelihood of stray bullets flying about populated areas.

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Because the criminals your cops deal with vs. what's crawling around the streets of Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland etc. are minor league. Our street gangs, which do drive-bys daily, make yours look like little girls. Seriously.

Try telling that to some of our serial killers...

 

You harp on about cops being influenced by Hollywood and then show a horrible example of it yourself!!

Shots to the extremities, wounding shots, are successful <10% of the time. That means 90% of the time that bullet is going somewhere else - and out of control. This is why wounding attempts are usually ILLEGAL. If you shoot its taught shoot for center of mass, the higher percentage shot, in part to reduce the likelihood of stray bullets flying about populated areas.

<10% effective for American cops. UK cops have a far far better success rate with it, mainly because they can shoot straight. :p

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The problem with the US police organization system is that they train the police to hunt and kill as many minority as they can.  I have recently uncover a few real truth.  Any minority that is using the state-funded health care will also be secretly euthanize.  There is a secret mission to kill off minorities in the US in states that has a growing number of minorities.  You are well off using a paid insurance than a state-funded health care.  There's a race-against-race war going on in the US and it is covert operation.

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Try telling that to some of our serial killers...

Serial killers anywhere aren't near as common.

<10% effective for American cops. UK cops have a far far better success rate with it, mainly because they can shoot straight. [emoji14]

A sniper or SWAT officer with a scoped shoulder weapon shooting a semi-stationary target is one thing, dynamic situations like US cops face daily a far different matter.

This is especially true as concerns using a handgun because shooting one accurately is much harder than your Hollywood-ized beliefs. To hit a moving extremity, roughly a 4-6" wide target, at more than a few meters is more luck than skill.

They don't exactly sit still for portraits.

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Do you know what British police do when a police chase enters a residential area? They back off, and if necessary, they terminate pursuit.  Better to let someone get away than cause a fatal incident by continuing the pursuit. Another thing they don't do is open fire unless the suspect is clearly armed or posing a direct threat to public safety.  Of course, it does rather help that only specially trained officers are actually armed so don't tend to spray and pray.

 

Should have known you would be in this thread.

 

Try telling that to some of our serial killers...

 

 

Serial killers, that if they were in a vehicle in a hot speed chase your police would most likely let them go and hope to catch them next time?

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The problem with the US police organization system is that they train the police to hunt and kill as many minority as they can.  I have recently uncover a few real truth.  Any minority that is using the state-funded health care will also be secretly euthanize.  There is a secret mission to kill off minorities in the US in states that has a growing number of minorities.  You are well off using a paid insurance than a state-funded health care.  There's a race-against-race war going on in the US and it is covert operation.

The problem with the US police organization system is that they train the police to hunt and kill as many minority as they can

 

Stopped there and immediatly put you on ignore. Good job.

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Live in your own bubble.  I speak the truth and I have proof but something like this make go in denial.

 

I think we should believe this guy. He himself has confirmed that he is indeed speaking the truth.

 

What else does one need?

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The problem with the US police organization system is that they train the police to hunt and kill as many minority as they can.  I have recently uncover a few real truth.  Any minority that is using the state-funded health care will also be secretly euthanize.  There is a secret mission to kill off minorities in the US in states that has a growing number of minorities.  You are well off using a paid insurance than a state-funded health care.  There's a race-against-race war going on in the US and it is covert operation.

 

I guess I missed this training day. But thanks, I took a screenshot of your response and will definitely be spreading it around. Maybe you'll become "facebook famous".

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I think we just need to accept that the US and the UK are fundamentally different when it comes to gun control. America has a long history of gun ownership due to the size of the country among other things. America has something like 300 million guns so even if guns were outlawed it would be pretty much impossible to recover every gun. The UK never had as many guns to deal with in citizens hands. So America is stuck in a real catch-22 situation. We such easy access to guns (legal and illegal) they need to have an armed police force and, unfortunately, it means those police officers will need to use their weapons.

 

On the other side is the the UK's armed police which are highly trained and rarely deployed in a situation where they will need to fire (although they are deployed more often than you might think they very rarely fire). This more time consuming training is not realistic to give the tens of thousands of American officers. Gun crime in the UK is very rare and even when a suspect does have a gun that is real (more often than not it is an imitation firearm) officers are generally in a more controlled situation than you would see in America. So much so that when something does happen involving guns it makes national news for a couple of days.

 

So arguing over who is right and wrong makes no sense. We have vastly different views and realities in regards to gun control. If the UK were the size of America and had the same kind of history no doubt the UK would have guns more readily available.

 

I am from the UK and I do not believe in todays world that someone like myself really needs access to a gun but I believe that because there are so few guns which pose a real threat to me. I am in my early thirties and have never personally known anyone affected by gun crime nor do I know anyone who owns a gun (well that isn't quite true, I know a farmer with a shotgun but not a handgun).

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The cops didn't know they were unarmed, and had probable cause to believe otherwise. Their fleeing certainly tended to make them think it was a drive-by, and with that planted they aren't going to take chances.

They didn't know they were armed. The suspects were surrounded and there were numerous officers at the scene. Shooting a suspect should be an absolute last resort and only when the public is at significant risk - given that a police officer had the time to jump on the bonnet and execute them at point blank range it's pretty hard to claim that.

 

Hollyweird doesnt enter into tactical training. You're trained to fire until the threat is neutralized. No shoot to wound, and no shot counting other than to shoot in volleys. With multiple cops and firearms with 17-19 rounds each those shots add up.

Hollywood does enter the equation when the American public can believe this is acceptable policing. The fact that you would defend such policing is testament to that. Further, the fact that each officer is shooting so many rounds demonstrates a clear lack of control over the situation, with officers panicking or simply having no regard for the human rights of the suspects. In the UK armed policing use non-lethal force to apprehend murderers who are charging at them; in the US armed police use lethal force to execute suspects who have been surrounded and are unarmed.

 

The jury agreed with the cops. When charged by the judge they're given sets of aggravating and mitigating circumstances. If mitigating outnumbers aggravating that's reasonable doubt and you must acquit.

Hence my point that Hollywood has made it acceptable for police to use excessive force where non-lethal tactics should have been used. Somehow the American public considers this sort of thing acceptable, though thankfully some are starting to protest it.

 

Police in the US know that within ~21 feet a knife weilder has the tactical advantage and can kill you before you can fire. This is trained for in the Tueller Drill.

Police in the US are trained to shoot first and ask questions later - there is absolutely no regard for human life. We're not talking about a one-on-one confrontation here, nor were the suspects armed. The police failed to properly assess the situation and apply due diligence. The cavalier nature of the officer leaping onto the bonnet and executing them should have been enough to prosecute the officer responsible, yet instead it's business as usual for the police.

 

They're also trained not to shoot to wound because its a low percentage shot which can ricochet or fly wide and wound an innocent party a mile away. The training is shoot higher percentage shots to the center of mass; torso, abdomen or head. Those kill.

As I pointed out, the UK has highly trained firearms officers who use non-lethal force to take down armed assailants. Sure it's safer to shoot them dead but that's not justice. Sometimes the right thing to do isn't the easiest. The US system puts more lives at risk than it protects.

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Police in the US are trained to shoot first and ask questions later - there is absolutely no regard for human life. We're not talking about a one-on-one confrontation here, nor were the suspects armed. The police failed to properly assess the situation and apply due diligence. The cavalier nature of the officer leaping onto the bonnet and executing them should have been enough to prosecute the officer responsible, yet instead it's business as usual for the police.

 

Are they, do you have proof?

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