I thought support for any pre-release OS was not allowed ...

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?show...#entry585831049

Its weird, I think some of the mac mods had a fit over tiger crap, but longhorn crap is allowed to be posted, I don't know, someone does need to figure out whats allowed and whats not.

Same here, its ambiguous.

there is no uniformity at all across the different forum sections. the mods of certain sections seem to make their own rules. and when you question it they act like you have no right to even question what they are doing.

like tiger which was mentioned, everyone wanted the tiger wallpapers and no one was allowed to post them. but, every other day people are asking for longhorn related wallpapers and resources and they are allowed to be posted with no problems, and in some cases hosted on the neowin servers.

well Apple will sue without forgiveness, whereas Microsoft will warn you.

the point that i am trying to get across here is that the so called rules have no meaning since they are only enforced when the mods/admin feel like it. the mods here never show a true leadership. they just do what they want whenever they want and don't always follow the rules themselves.

you have one mod saying "ohh you can't post that in the apple section. i'm warning you"

and you have another mod posting the exact same things themself (but for longhorn)

Hard to believe considering Microsoft sues people who are legit too

MS sues college student for selling legit software

Is it hard for you to see that I myself closed that thread with the following statement?



If you find something in question, report it.

I also remember the fake MSN 7.0.0814 saga. Every single download URL is removed and threads got locked, but guess what? Neobond later posted the URL on Neowin's front page. (He later clarified that it was a fake build, but that was another issue.) While leaked builds can be posted on the frontpage, members cannot post them on the forums. What rules are these?

His EULA states that he was not allowed to resell it. So he was doing something illegal. Actually, if he had half a brain in his head he could figure out he was doing something illegal.

Thanks. But the point is that the Windows Beta forum has many threads similar to that going and going strong. People who shouldnt have Longhorn builds seeking help and getting support from Neowin.

Longhorn and Tiger are out there legitimately, and thus neowin is catering for those people. It is not neowins job to check who has it legally or illegally. You can't buy Longhorn for almost two years, you can however buy Tiger, even though it isn't out yet.

Plus Apple have shown their aggressive side recently.

Dougal.

Is it not illegal to discuss the software. Neowin doesn't tell anybody where to obtain them so they are doing nothing wrong. Neowin makes the choice if they want to support it or not.

Wrong, providing support for Tiger is clearly not allowed so I'm questioning why isnt the rule same for Longhorn ?

The Windows Beta Forum is full of posts like these and nothing is being done in this regard.

i see that neowin had to remove their screenshots of longhorn, but why can the members post longhorn screenshots in the desktop threads?

Again StevoFC, I am not sure what else is going on here but, I removed them myself earlier today. I suggest that you do something about it when you see something that should not be up by REPORTING IT.

We cant be everywhere at every time. Please help us when you see something that we may have missed.

Learn to read and then shut up. I said discussing not supporting. So all of a sudden saying tiger is the best, the new interface rocks, is now support?

Longhorn is not even beta, its alpha.

Yup.

I JUST counted 7 Longhorn support threads with one being 12 PAGES LONG. I, too have noticed this hipocracy. Please Neowin, clarify your position.


I also took the time to report a bunch of threads, none of which have been locked or deleted.

Discussing (in terms of support) is not allowed. Head over to the Mac forums, have a look and then come back.

No DUH! Im talking discussion in general about tiger.

Look at the title of this thread ..

Pre-release OS support not allowed ?

DUH !

DUH! look at my post that you replied to. i said JUST discussing software is allowed. Then you proceeded to say it wasnt.

"Discussing" is a broad term, it could as well include suggesting of where to get it illegally.

What I'm trying to say is that there is ambiguity when it comes to Support for Tiger (not allowed) and Support for Longhorn (allowed).

Like it or not, agree or not,.. its up to you but Neowin has always been a great support/resource site for beta software (any other oldtimers remember Whistler) and I for one hope it remains that way.

We agree that Neowin HAD been a good place for discussion, but Tiger threads kept getting locked and deleted while Longhorn thread remain open. We just want clarification and enforcement on ONe policy.

Longhorn Install hangs...

And now we have Neowin linking to the MSN Messenger QFE Patch. Talking about it is alright, but linking....Isn't the type of thing that got Neowin in trouble before with Microsoft?

Half of you have got to be smoking something. Tiger support threads have been allowed since legal copies started shipping early this week.

Longhorn support questions are a mixed bag, as Neowin is a Microsoft affiliate site. Obviously Microsoft doesn't care if support questions are asked here. I'm sure they keep a close eye on what happens.

When dealing with Tiger, Apple didn't even support pre-release builds, so why should we? I knew of probably 5 people here with legal developer builds of Tiger. Them asking for support, or contributing information that Apple hasn't made public, is against their NDA, and Apple can hold them legally responsible for leaking information...as we have seen in the past. When the GM build was leaked to the net, everyone and their dog had it, when Apple hadn't even released it on their developer site.

You have clarification, and you have one policy. If the admins allow support for the next OS X release when it comes around, then that's what happens. As far as the current situation...Tiger is released, so quite whining about it. Longhorn will be addressed as it progresses.

You people need to relax. Since there isn't a hard fast rule on this issue, we will allow some leeway.

It wasnt allowed before the "early copies" started shipping with the explanation that Neowin does not allow support for OSes that arent out yet.

By the way that was nice of you with the "smoking" remark, sounds mature.


1. Threads concerning Longhorn are the main issue of concern here.
2. Nobody's whining here, we just need clarification.


Yes there is a ONE hard and fast rule that the Longhorn threads violate. There are innumerable posts where people rip icons/fonts from Longhorn and share it here on Neowin. Like I've been pointing out, people who should not supposed to have Longhorn get it and Neowin is their source from there on. Some thing on these lines..
1. Download warez from P2P.
2. Get support from Neowin.
Sounds like a killer combination.

Nothing is perfect, just like these rules. I'll accept it and be done with it.

Tiger has been officially released now but let's pretend for a minute that it hasn't. It was possible to pay $500 to Apple to become an official developer. Part of that kit was a pre-release copy of Tiger. So clearly there were legal ways of aquiring both Longhorn and Tiger. The problem is not discussing pre-release software, the problem is asking for support for software after you have admitted to warezing it.

If you look back to discussion where threads have been closed and members have been warned then you will find out that people have discussed how they downloaded it from non-official sources.

If someone started a thread and said that they had the build that came with the Apple Developer Connection kit and then asked a support question then I imagine that that thread would not have been closed.

http://developer.apple.com/

Edit: I just read Chad's post. If the ADC version came with a NDA agreement preventing you from seeking support on public systems like Neowin then that would nullify my example.

(that's what happens when you don't read the entire thread)

I just think some of the mods were afraid and closed half the threads on t

Like everyone else is trying to say.

Cause everyone here that has longhorn got it legally...

I say we wait for redmak,neobond0, or daniel to hear their final say on whats allowed and whats not on "pre-release" support topics.

should be if they don't talk about where they got it from, support should be allowed, its a forum, help people, don't make it harder for them, all that does is cause more and more problems.

ITs already been decided that it is ok. We are not going to play police and assume. BUT, if you admit you downloaded it, show pics, or assist where to get it, its closed and your going to get a warning. I suggest that if you see anything that leans twards that, help us. Report it. PM a staff member. Send an IM. You do your part as well as us to keep this place clean. We can't be everywhere at all times and that is the entire reason for the report feature and most of us giving out our messenger information in the first place.

With that said, we are all on the same page and there is no need to continue the confusion any further. If you do not agree with this, that is fine. An Admin decision has been placed. If it bothers you that much I suggest you send a PM.

Closed