Here I go again. Writing a long rant that Neowin's news section has deemed too long to post. I don't know why I get into these things, and I haven't even read it yet. I just kept on typing.

Well... enjoy.



I don't care for, or use any of those features you just mentioned on my phone. I really don't know anyone who does. My brother, for the longest time, had one of those simple, featureless Nokia phones with 'Snake' on it. Personally, I have a Samsung flip phone.

I don't use it to surf the web, it's too slow, too small, and too expensive. I don't IM people, I don't watch TV (slow, bad quality, expensive) , and I don't listen to music on it. I have an iPod for that. I use it to call people.

When my friends go on AIM, they don't constantly hit the 'Games' button. I don't know anyone with a webcam, or anyone who cares for AOL's streaming radio. When a friend signs on to AIM or MSN, or Yahoo, or ICQ or whatnot, they just want to IM people. They use Myspace or Blogger, so they have no need or interest in the integration with MSN Spaces or Xbox Live.

Now most of them aren't geeks. They're average computer users who bought a $700 HP back in 2002 and like to chat with their friends, surf the web, and play SimCity. They don't have a lot of RAM, and they don't know what to enable and disable when they're installing software. As a result, their taskbar is packed, they're dealing with IM windows that take up a quarter of the screen (@1024x768), and these 'modern' IM programs frequently freeze up their computer to draw the next massive window. Why they're so big, god only knows. AIM does it to look stylish, MSN does it so it can show really big buddy icons.

These ads and lack of focus is how GMail managed to get so far ahead of MSN Hotmail and Yahoo! Mail. No banner ads, clean interface, and essentially unlimited storage (with a working spam box!).

Google Talk got it right. No longer do I need to guide friends through setup of Gaim or Trillian, I can just show them Google Talk.

It launches at boot without a performance hit, allows them to IM and voice chat with people, automatically updates, and tells them when they have new email (as most of them have switched from hotmail by now). Everyone I've shown it to has refused to use AIM or MSN again (MSN is a minority usage in my area, I only know about four people who use it. About sixty that use AIM.)

People want simplicity. This is how Firefox caught on instead of Opera or Mozilla Suite, Google caught on instead of portal sites, and the reason that we don't all have videophones in our homes today, instead of the simple, reliable phone line.

Google Talk isn't a step back, it's a brilliant step forward and a focus on what most people actually need. And I commend Google for taking a risk like this in what has become a stagnant and boring market.

I completely agree with everything you wrote
ICQ died back in those days because of all it's features.

I don't think MSN will die soon because it seems that people actually likes all that crap MSN has, but I think a large portion would switch if they where properly informed about the brilliant alternative GTalk

i agree mostly, i disable 90% of the stuff in msn now.
i do like display pics tho.

Yeah me too. I have nothing against an IM client if they could make it extensible.
Example:

Allow display pictures
Allow animated display pictures
Allow Handwritten messages
Allow Custom smileys
Allow personal message

Everything should be modules so you can completely prevent features you don't like from being loaded into memory.
I *think* (not sure though) that jabber allready allows for display pictures. GTalk should also have filetransfers and then maybe nothing more untill it's ready.

"Allow Custom smileys"

ONLY if they make it so the user has to put ( ) around it or something
BAN people replacing every other letter with a god damned picture.

I still hope that someone start an IM client that is so extremely modular that you could tear out any bad feature you don't like. Even the contact list should be a module.
I know it would take a long time to make such thing, but imagine an IM that only works the way you want it, and not how some few programmers want it to be.
Firefox is the most extensible browser yet, but i think an IM client (which is open all the time) should have much lesser memory useage. Kinda like utorrent can manage to be so small but still so big.

Now that is annoying. It makes it sooooo hard to read the convo properly

I have a person that I talk to on MSN that does that, its soooo annoying, has forced me to turn off custom emoticons entirely.

I agree with this article 100% too. Display pics, nudges, winks, custom backgrounds and all that crap, is to me at least, crap.

Google Talk should maybe have a few, I said a few, emoticons, basic ones, and it needs file transfers badly cause I use that a lot in msn messenger. And thats all I need, and it would be perfect for me, if anyone I knew actually used it.

Then avoid adding idiots who do that or block them.

I agree completely with everything said above. I use MSN mainly because all my friends are on it and I religiously use APatch to removed 3/4 of the crap from it.

Microsoft (and other companies) need to stop making IM clients for ****ing 13 year old pregnant girls who like backstreet boys etc etc and more awful crap. Make it for the simplistic user.

It is discusting Microsoft don't listen to their users about what they want in an IM client and they allow thousand of people to beta test their products effectively ruining them.

Ohh boy do I agree with that too. Almost every male that I know could care less about the crap and would switch to google talk in a minute too if I convinced them too, file transfers would definitely help. But almost every female I know would immediately reply with but it doesn't have emoticons and winks and etc etc insert crappy bloaty feature that chicks love here.

nub comment, does google talk work if i wanna talk to my msn contacts?

Then Microsoft should make the crap IM client MSN Messenger and actually do something with Windows Messenger or give it a new name Windows Live Corporate Messenger which is a decent IM client for the intelligent people to use.

:-D, no Google Talk only allows you to send messages to users with a Gmail/GoogleMail account.

well then i think that microsoft should make an IM service that's more simple, for the people who just want basic ****, but thtat'll never happen cos they want their money. ;p the "that's hot" sections and their other ****... guess i'll have to carry on removing excessive amounts of msn or wait for a better client.

is you want a simple msn messenger from microsoft you use windows messenger.

Personally i use Portable Gaim 2, but i like google talk. I prefer skype over it for a few reasons though. skype is a standalone exe, is portable, meaning it can store is settings in the appdata folder in an xml file whereas google adds registry keys, skype has more features like conference video and buddy icons. One thing i would like changed with google talk is the gTalk logo removed or the ability to hide it in the gui.

I was wondering when someone would bring up Windows Messenger. If you want simple, it's right there!!!!!

The way XMPP works (e.g. Jabber, or what GTalk uses) is fully extensible (being XML and all), they also have a preliminary spec for avatar's and file transfers (and anybody can write a new module if they want)


Oh god yeah, luckily my client doesn't yet support custom emoticons at all (Adium using libGaim)

Another "light" weight Jabber client is Psi, it's small, not bloated, and only supports the Jabber protocol (and a lot of it at that)

Yes, I have been doing if for a while now. Check out http://www.bigblueball.com/forums/google-t...-msn-yahoo.html

miranda

I agree 100%.

Too many goofy dumb features on all the other IM apps.

Nice post!

I hate those people that use their every other letter as a picture or custom smiley. SO annoying. and display pictures are totally useless, 1/99999999999 people ACTUALLY put their picture as it. its mostly crap like "cool" pictures they drew in paint that took 3 seconds.

So your face is a caution sign? Stop your bitching.

a display pic should show who you are talking to, not what they can whip out of paint.

I too, have Google Talk but none of my friends use it. They are too lazy and stupid to figure out that if they have a Gmail account, they can still use their old email. They're all like "Oh no, I don't want to change my email for every single site I've registered to!"

Lazy bums.

if it had buddy icons, decent profile support, and direct connect then I'd use it more often. I'm always signed into it through gaim, but i dont really have any friends on it.

gtalk is good because its basic. its an effective tool to communicate with a developing team and the logs can be retrieved with gmail. with aim you have to direct connect to paste long lines of code and msn, well its pretty useless for sharing code with it.

Google Talk
Pseudo-tab like messaging
Retrieve logs remotely
Can paste many lines of text
seemless integration of VoIP
can sign on at multiple locations without logging one instance off

AIM (with dead aim)
Tabbed messaging
Logged conversations
Pasting code doesnt usually get messed up
File sharing is good
mainly used by friends who live in the US

MSN
Bloated feeling
File sharing is decent
Can't paste long lines of code into it
pasting code can result in emotes being displayed
Nudge does get your attention pretty well when you are AFK
used by pretty much everyone outside the US.

Generally people such as myself who have contacts that use many different clients, we find that using clients such as trilian, gaim, or miranda better suits our needs.

Personally I dont like Gtalk too much... its way too plain, although I really like the feature that saves chat logs in your Gmail account. Its way too plain (once again) I like MSN, although 50% of the features are dumb, theyve been bloating it a bit:

- sharing folders (wtf?)
- nudges (so annoying - if people doesnt answer you, they wouldnt answer even after a nudge)
- CUSTOM EMOTICONS. People that replaces half their stuff with emoticons like LOL and HEY and every second letter with an animated letter is gay.
- handwriting (Who needs this)
- All the ads that no one clicks or looks at
- All the weird games
- Winks and all those weird stuff that occupies your whole window

etc etc

I agree 100%. I don't want to see some band's logo, or movie actors, or words that I can't repeat on Neowin. I would love to see a messenger than uses Gravatar type ratings to decide if you want to look at the picture or not.

The ability to block out certain picture ratings and only look at certain types of pictures would rock.

So you're saying you really look like diagonal blue lines of various shades?

I do agree with some of the comments made on this thread about the pro's of Google Talk but half the people in this thread were ranting about MSN Messenger being too bloated but I guess they haven't used Windows Messenger