I'm sure many are aware about certain members of this board that can be overly critical about anything that's posted in relation to Stardock.

Many of the critical responses to software or anything related to the company in our news and forums are unfair and unfounded, there are a few things these members should note before adding little or nothing more than trolling to such posts on Neowin.

1. Neowin is now part owned by Stardock (40%) and the decision to invest in Neowin was a majority vote by its shareholders. The other 60% is shared between myself and (Redmak) Marcel Klum, the site founders. This agreement was completed in February 2005
2. Neowin would still be on leased servers if it weren't for Stardock investing in the new company that was created (Neowin LLC).
3. Neowin now has assets (4 servers) fully owned by Neowin LLC (not Stardock, but it was their investment that enabled us to buy them).
4. Neowin does not have corporate branding since this agreement and never will, thanks to Stardocks understanding that Neowin needs to remain in it's current form.
5. Neowin has changed for the better due to the investments made, and now has full legal backing should we ever get into trouble again (the Microsoft incident of 2003).
6. Neowin can now send its staff to any tech event, fully paid by the revenue and accounting staff that monitor our financial health, before they paid their own way
7. Neowin has also held a staff meet-up since 2005 and paid for that too, a moral boosting event that otherwise would be much more difficult to do.

Plus I want to point out that the level of Stardock "promotion" on Neowin hasn't changed before or since the formation of Neowin LLC. Brad has been a member here since 2002 and we've had Stardock news and the Window Blinds dedicated area since then too. It is a small price to pay for the level of investment Stardock and Brad has invested in Neowin.

I can fully understand why Brad feels frustrated at the level of abuse he gets from certain members, when you look at what he has meant to our community and yours.

Money makes this site what it is, and without it we will disappear, then you'll have to move on to the next forum to criticize the webmasters for seeking investment help and so on and so on.

Please people, grow up and realize that it could be much worse, but due to Brad Wardell's admiration of this site it isn't the corporate machine that some believe it to be.

I reckon some of our members from 2001/2002 and beyond can vouch for this too, Neowin has only ever improved its services to you, be thankful of it and Brads support if you want it to stay that way.

Noticed a typo there Neobond.

The website now is miles better then back when i signed up. Both in quality of posts and the quality of the servers

I didnt know neowin was for sale..what price did you get? Wanna go thirdsies?

Consequently, I had no idea of this until now and as such ill be keeping my eyes open to your 'loose' moral corporate ways

So is this a crackdown on pure trolling and flaming comments towards Stardock or is this prohibiting any negative discussion?

Originally Brad didn't want to promote the idea that we were part owned by Stardock (because of the abusive reactions) and that's why it was never publicized but it has been mentioned a few times and it's time to clear up any speculation on the matter.

@ MichaelBL: no there is no policy change at all, I just felt that Brad is targeted unfairly by some people.

few things i can see that may/can/will have annoyed people:

1. It would appear frogboy/brad became admin after stardock bought into neowin and so people can see that as buying admin rights, not something that is good. (If thats not the case, i'll remove this point )
2. Having any site hosted on a single upstream provider is a bad idea, especially if it is cogent (far too many problems)
3. Wasn't it denied for a while that stardock had anything to do with neowin?

I'd guess some people have problems with Frogboy/Brad too, I know I do

1. its criticizers, not it's.
2. Meh.

wctaiwan

Thats what I thought, but still I don't mind really as long as this does not cause to much of a backlash, the only thing is I thought been a subscriber helped costs, but it seems they are getting the money anyway

1. Not the case at all (we'd never let anyone buy themselves admin rights on Neowin)
2. true
3. There was a time when Stardock had nothing to do with Neowin (even when Brad was already a member)

You buy enhanced services, as I already said Stardock made an investment that we have to pay back. Neowin survives on Ad revenue and your subscribing to additional services, not hand-outs

That's exactly what I thought when I read #1 on Neobond's original post.

Fare enough if Stardocks investment helps you survive then fare enough, it can't be easy.

I guess I'm a minority then... I actually think it's really great that frogboy is a member here, he's helped me answer some questions about stardock products before I bought them.

Didn't know NW is partially owned by stardock though - but I don't really 'care', it's all for the better. Besides, rather stardock buying part of neowin than a 'hostile' take-over due to financial problems @ NW HQ

1. Well yes, but you said he (he is Stardock?) only owns 40% so hardly his company, unless he owns more?

2. Aren't neowin hosted in stardocks room/rack/cage and use bandwidth provided by stardock (who i guess picked their own location/bandwidth) so entirely down to what stardock chose?

3. So are Neowin and Stardock only linked by the owners? If so, why the move into Stardocks cage/rack/room for hosting?

4. I would but i'm sure we're not supposed to

Redmak: nice different responses to the questions

The problem with this whole thing is that the staff here assumes most people have a problem with Brad due to his Stardock affiliation, but that's not the case at all. People just flat out don't like him. It has nothing to do with the companies he owns or doesn't own. It comes down to the way he treats members here.
If you drive members away due to a "I'm better than you attitude" then all the money invested doesn't mean much now does it?

I had no clue Stardock owns a good chunk of Neowin. that clears up some things. Thanks for the info.

Wouldn't have even noticed if I hadn't seen this thread. neowin as good as ever for me. At least you guys didn't go down the IGN/McDonald's route.

As for frogboy, I've never encountered him myself but can anyone clarify what the problem is? (without starting a huge argument).

Are people annoyed that his sudden corporate ties to neowin have got him an admin position without being on the boards for years?

Are people annoyed that he is using his admin position to try and silence stardock's critics/problems?

If it's the first one. Then that's business. Sometimes people with less direct experience than you come in at a higher grade.

If it's the second one then that's a problem. I know neowin needs this financial support but if it is at the cost of the sites impartiality then is it worth it?

Brad Wardell has done more for for various websites than most people know. Ive been an administrator for Samurize.com for over four years. In 2005 our site was hosted by a private individual, but it got to a point that we were slowing down his server so much that his paying customers could not logon. With 72 hours to find a new host, or shut down, I sent an email to Brad, explaining our problem,and he offered to host Samurize.com at no cost to us, and continues to do so to this day.

It's nice to hear both sides of the story first before making judgment on a person's character.

I didn't know that stardock owned part of neowin, I'm not bothered by it as I can see the value of having input in the forums from Brad.

As long as the site stays unbiased and "the people" have all the power to do what they want to do, I'm all in!

At least with stardock giving a little financial support we can be safer in the knowledge that our wonderful community will not be lost if neowin was forced to close. I've personally not seen any bias towards stardock. Its not like Neowin is gonna suddenly change!

I'm REALLY glad this has been addressed. I didn't know Brad/Frogboy was related to Stardock, I was only vaguely aware of the Stardock/Neowin involvement because some troll was criticising Stardock products for no reason and using ridiculous arguments - then started attacking Neowin because of the involvement.

I have NEVER felt Neowin is pushing any agenda related to Stardock. I have felt the other way from some members, and then such conversations allowed to continue - so moderation isn't being affected by the investment.

Yeah, same here. I've never encountered Brad either.

Like some others, never knew Stardock owned 40% of Neowin, doesn't matter to me though

I think this is a good post to show people who runs neowin and how it is run

I remember the 2002 days!

When we had a new host every 5 minutes? And when we were forced down multiple times in the month (due to excessive bandwidth). Yeah I remember those days, something we never have to worry about these days but took up a good part of Neowins first 3 years online!

Not that different.

1. Brad didn't buy into Neowin just to become an admin, which we wouldn't allow (he wasn't even an admin for quite a while after the buy in)
2. "Having any site hosted on a single upstream provider is a bad idea" is true. This is a hosting issue not a Stardock issue
3. It was denied because Stardock had nothing to do with Neowin at the time. Apart from Brad being a member

"why the move into Stardocks cage/rack/room for hosting" ... It was cheaper

+1


What was that about?

I can remember late 2004 early 2005 when there was a few speed issues, thank god you guys got a good host from stardock.

They leaked something and Microsoft wasn't happy. Call their hosting company and shut Neowin down.

I was not about for the beginning of Neowin, but I know this is one hell of a forum and I have no troubles with who runs it in the background.

Probably this http://www.news.com/2100-1025-991624.html

If I remember well, there was a post on the frontpage (about microsoft content) that wasn't supposed to be public and Neowin got hit by a Cease and Desist order...

But they came back after a while.

BTW I myself got absolutely nothing against frogboy. I have bought Windowblinds myself twice; granted haven't used it for long for personnal reasons, but I think he does a very good thing by supporting community sites.

I applaud ya, mate

EDIT: More information on the Microsoft patent CaD order: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/03/07/ne...t_downed_by_ms/ (YES I know it's The Register, read anyway )

I have no issues with Stardock owning a part of Neowin. I also have no problems with Brad. I tend to rag on Stardock products a lot, but that is because I use them, have for years, and when I see the quality or support for them starting to go downhill I figure the best place to show my displeasure is a forum where I know at least one member of Stardock resides and will read about it. Windowblinds irritates the hell out of me, because it's a great concept but they can't seem to make it flawless. On XP I used a lot of msstyles, instead, and with Vista I have pretty much been stuck with the default theme since release. Objectdock won't stay running stable anymore and I've had to permanently switch to Rocketdock, at least until a new build comes out for me to try. Am I going to just shut my mouth about problems I'm having and pretend everything about Stardock is just the greatest thing since sliced bread because they own part of Neowin? Hell no! But you can bet I'm going to renew my Object Desktop subscription next year, too, so I think I'm paying for that right.

I think people have a right to complain, it's the minority not including yourself Darrian, who get abusive and confrontational with other users about their views, and troll about

I have tried Objectdock granted the free version and could not get on with it, I guess I just like a clean desktop and I could not get it how I wanted so I left it.

Yeah I remember that but I think its good now its all stable!

Woah, I didn't know Stardock owned part of Neowin. I'm shocked lol, but in a good way.

I don't see anything wrong with Stardock owning 40% - it must help Neobond and Redmak loads financially, which is always a good thing as we all want this community to continue

I just have one question for Neobond or Redmak:

Seeing as though Brad owns 40% of it, would he ever have any say whatsoever in the future of Neowin. E.g. whether it survives or not? I don't know much about him, but I wouldn't want him to wake up one day and decide "oh, I'm going to shut Neowin down today!"

Probably just me being paranoid lol, but could that happen at all?

Neowin has to pay back an investment. I thought that when you invest in something there is no paying back. If I invest in stock , I don't have to pay it back, the stock can benefit the investor. As Neowin can benefit Stardock. Or do you mean that Neowin has to pay back Stardock in a non financial way?

Perhaps we're talking sexual favors

I used to have a few issues with it, and I'm still not a huge fan of Brad () but I'm over that now, it's not had a noticeable negative effect on Neowin, and all of the speed/server issues are gone so it's probably a Good Thing™.

A bigger issue was a member who was attacking Stardock in order to push their own software (a competitor).

Thats sad. If his software was any better, then it would sell without him bad mouthing the competition.

this explains a lot. stardock bias or not, the good thing neowin is still online.

After reading through all the comments, I have only one thing to say: is there a difference? I think you can guess my answer, so to speak.

Scirwode

There's a difference when it comes to the users of the forum today.
Back in the days there was a more behaved and nice attitude throughout the forum.
That's certainly not the case today, where you'll find alot of bickering and bitchin' and stupid arguments over petty things,
in alot of the daily new posts.
That's the downside of Neowins growing popularity

EDIT: And about the Stardock thing, who gives a ****? no really?
There's plenty alternative content to the stardock posts/news to read.
The site is now as it was back when it all started, just with a larger user database.

I know I'm not one of the most senior/useful members here but I'll throw in my two cents:


I think that we have to give the admins props for keeping this site alive. It must take a lot of money and resources to keep a site this big running. I've been a lurker for years, and I think that we all can agree that Neowin is much more solid than it was before. I can't remember the last time I couldn't access the site because the server was too busy or something.


I believe that the members giving frogboy crap need to shut up. He helped this site out and that's all that matters.


We all have to remember that we use this site FOR FREE. Therefore, the administration and the staff is not obligated to divulge things if they don't want to. It's nice when they do it (like now) but I don't think they have too. Again, this site is free and you can donate if so you choose, but I think that some of us are a little bit too demanding and ungrateful.


I give props to frogboy for putting up with all the crap that he does. Neowin can't publish a stardock related article without some jackasses starting some drama and negative things that don't help the site out. I think that those members need to look at the big picture and recognize that neowin is much better than it was before. It's not like we are being shoved stardock products down our throats or like we can't say negative things about them.

I think that some of us need to learn the difference between constructive criticism and being a plain old ass. Let's give this community our support and let's stop the drama. Most of us haven't invested our time and resources into this site and we all share the benefits.


So thank you admins, mods, mvc's, subscribers and everyone that keeps this site helpful and fun. Whatever happens behind closed doors is really not our business and not our right to know unless the people in charge think otherwise. Let's be considerate and grateful because neowin is in better shape than before.

/end

I just don't see how some members would have a beef with stardock, and/or Brad?

There's always someone who wishes to cause disruption. Nothing new, really .

Scirwode