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giga


http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/snowleopard/

So far it's all been under wraps with a NDA, but what we know so far:

- 64-bit: Support up to 16 TB of RAM
- Quicktime X: new media platform for optimized media playback
- Open CL: allows for developers to utilize the GPU for general processing tasks in their apps
- Grand Central: improved multi-core optimization and efficiency for developers
- Efficiency: dramatically smaller footprint
- SquirrelFish: much improved JavaScript performance
- ZFS: read/write support, storage pooling, data redundancy, automatic error correction, dynamic volume expansion, and snapshots.
- Exchange support: MS Exchange 2007 built into Mail, Address Book, and iCal. (Exchange Web Services)
Cara
I'm hoping to have some information soon about this, but needless to say what I've read so far looks great!

Speed exceeding 20% - 50% faster than Leopard...wow.
-Hiroshi-
I'm guessing this is 10.6 right? You know, this is going to confuse the HELL out of people, can you imagine? Leopard/Snow Leopard..

It's like calling Vista, Clear Vista.. o_O

Don't get me wrong, I got a HUGE case of OS X envy... I want to use that OS so bad. >_< I'm stuck on Windows and Linux, and granted Linux is the lesser of the two evils, I'd still LOVE to use OS X and I even looked into trying for a hackintosh and failed horribly at it. -.-
pdmcmahon
Quote - (Cara @ Jun 9 2008, 23:27) *
I'm hoping to have some information soon about this, but needless to say what I've read so far looks great!

Speed exceeding 20% - 50% faster than Leopard...wow.

Cara, dear, why am I not surprised you were poster # 2.

I was a bit disappointed that your boss' new project wasn't debuted during the WWDC keynote. I look forward to details down the road.

Keep it up, I love your work...
Chonson
Quote - (giga @ Jun 10 2008, 05:26) *
- Open CL: allows for any developers to utilize the GPU for processing in their apps


Lets hope they start using half decent graphics cards then! w00t.gif

You can't start speculating on performance gains yet though... pretty stupid really... blink.gif
Cara
Quote - (-Hiroshi- @ Jun 9 2008, 21:29) *
I'm guessing this is 10.6 right? You know, this is going to confuse the HELL out of people, can you imagine? Leopard/Snow Leopard..

It's like calling Vista, Clear Vista.. o_O


Preaching to the flock brother. tongue.gif

Quote - (pdmcmahon @ Jun 9 2008, 21:29) *
Cara, dear, why am I not surprised you were poster # 2.

I was a bit disappointed that your boss' new project wasn't debuted during the WWDC keynote. I look forward to details down the road.

Keep it up, I love your work...



I'm rather surprised they even mentioned it, there has to be some political decision behind the scenes I don't know about. tongue.gif

Quote - (kalkal @ Jun 9 2008, 21:31) *
Lets hope they start using half decent graphics cards then! w00t.gif

You can't start speculating on performance gains yet though... pretty stupid really... blink.gif


I rather like the 8800 series. ;)

As for the performance gains, those are just ones that were published or mentioned so I can only imagine they will go up from there.
-Hiroshi-
LoL Hey Cara, you wouldn't happen to have the incredible ability to convince your boss to open OS X up for ALL computers, would you? Think of the whammy it'd cause Microsoft. lol hmm.gif /end futile attempt
Cara
Quote - (-Hiroshi- @ Jun 9 2008, 21:38) *
LoL Hey Cara, you wouldn't happen to have the incredible ability to convince your boss to open OS X up for ALL computers, would you? Think of the whammy it'd cause Microsoft. lol hmm.gif /end futile attempt


Given I'm opposed to that concept? ;) Hehe, might not be easy. ;)
haefft
its snow leopard because no new features; just a new number.
giga
Quote - (haefft @ Jun 10 2008, 00:40) *
its snow leopard because no new features; just a new number.


I call those features. wink.gif Maybe not so much consumer oriented, but they're definitely features.
-Hiroshi-
Quote - (Cara @ Jun 10 2008, 00:39) *
Given I'm opposed to that concept? wink.gif Hehe, might not be easy. wink.gif


LoL tongue.gif Figured you were, I browsed your blog and found the big honking Anti-Hackintosh post and I thought of my question and was like.."Aw crap..guess not then. lol"

Oh well, I guess my Linux install will get more usage until I suddenly become $700+ richer. X_@
zerologic
'A Quantum Leap.'

then..

'..core software technologies that will streamline Mac OS X, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality.'

'..dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient..'

As a new Mac user, I got to say that these things are overdue. But also. Snow Leopard is sounding more like a Service Pack than a new version.
osirisX
I wonder what the price will be. Hoping for a discount for people who purchased Leopard, but I doubt that will happen. I want to see Aqua fully refined. None of this half ass mix between old and new. There are some nice designs found in MobileMe's web apps. Borrow from that since Round Textured looks bleh outside of toolbars and Textured windows. I also want a fully working resolution independent UI.

On a less serious note tongue.gif I like how the stars have seemingly turned into snow flakes. Wouldn't mind Aurora being replaced by this.
zerologic
Quote - (giga @ Jun 10 2008, 15:11) *
I call those features. wink.gif Maybe not so much consumer oriented, but they're definitely features.


Ehh, I'm not so sure. Still sounds to me like a big Service Pack.
giga
Quote - (zer0L0gic @ Jun 10 2008, 00:45) *
Ehh, I'm not so sure. Still sounds to me like a big Service Pack.


I usually consider service packs mainly fixes and patches. Snow Leopard looks to have some larger under the hood changes for it to be considered a 10.5.x release. This is just a preview anyhow--expect more. wink.gif
-Hiroshi-
Quote - (osirisX @ Jun 10 2008, 00:44) *
I wonder what the price will be. Hoping for a discount for people who purchased Leopard, but I doubt that will happen. I want to see Aqua fully refined. None of this half ass mix between old and new. There are some nice designs found in MobileMe's web apps. Borrow from that since Round Textured looks bleh outside of toolbars and Textured windows. I also want a fully working resolution independent UI.

On a less serious note tongue.gif I like how the stars have seemingly turned into snow flakes. Wouldn't mind Aurora being replaced by this.


Honestly, what would make me want OS X even more, is the fact that they can move past that OS X name and work on OS XI, a refined interface, open up the development tools for free for all users, because last time I heard, you need to pay money to Apple in order to write programs for OS X, I might be wrong though. Something I'd LOVE to see, is the ability to run Windows programs from WITHIN OS X, WITHOUT the need for a windows VM or dual-boot, Wine does it, it isn't exactly illegal.

Yeah, pardon the nonsense though, I'm half asleep. >_<
zerologic
Quote - (giga @ Jun 10 2008, 14:16) *
I usually consider service packs mainly fixes and patches. Snow Leopard looks to have some larger under the hood changes for it to be considered a 10.5.x release. This is just a preview anyhow--expect more. wink.gif


Looking forward to more news. So far I like the new changes, but I hope there is more than this.
osirisX
Quote - (-Hiroshi- @ Jun 10 2008, 14:47) *
Honestly, what would make me want OS X even more, is the fact that they can move past that OS X name and work on OS XI, a refined interface, open up the development tools for free for all users, because last time I heard, you need to pay money to Apple in order to write programs for OS X, I might be wrong though. Something I'd LOVE to see, is the ability to run Windows programs from WITHIN OS X, WITHOUT the need for a windows VM or boot, Wine does it, it isn't exactly illegal.

The Developer Tools are free and are found on every OS X Install Disc. You only need to pay Apple to sell iPhone applications in the App Store. Keep Windows out of OS X. I don't want the Registry mucking up the place. Also, I think I'll pass on the Windows malware running inside OS X.
Windam
I will say and I firmly believe this.

Windows 7 and Snow Leopard share similar paths to enhancing the end users experience more efficiently.

Not that much feature wise but in performance.
giga
Does anyone else find it odd that they haven't referenced to it as 10.6 yet? Or am I looking too far into this..
Quillz
Quote - (giga @ Jun 9 2008, 22:14) *
Does anyone else find it odd that they haven't referenced to it as 10.6 yet? Or am I looking too far into this..

Most marketing literature calls 10.5 "Leopard." Apple often refers to their OS as "Mac OS X Leopard" as opposed to "10.5." Same thing here. Though it's 10.6, Apple prefers to refer to it as "Mac OS X Snow Leopard."
Vegetunks
Well, I think it's a great idea, it's not like we need or want anything massively different anyway, we just want more power.

As for QuickTime X that'll be interesting. How will it effect my pron?

Any news on possible release notes, I missed the rest of the keynote after the iPhone bit because I was drunk
Quillz
Quote - (Vegetunks @ Jun 9 2008, 23:42) *
Well, I think it's a great idea, it's not like we need or want anything massively different anyway, we just want more power.

As for QuickTime X that'll be interesting. How will it effect my pron?

Any news on possible release notes, I missed the rest of the keynote after the iPhone bit because I was drunk

Snow Leopard wasn't actually discussed during the keynote, it was at a later session that was covered by a NDA. But according to an Apple report, it's supposed to be released in about a year, so look for it around June 2009?

Also, at first I felt this release would be a bit lame, but then I realized that Snow Leopard simply won't have marketable features. It in fact does have many new features, most of which are going to be underlying and help make the OS faster and leaner. And those are always the best new features.
richardsim7
Quote - (Quillz @ Jun 10 2008, 05:16) *
Most marketing literature calls 10.5 "Leopard." Apple often refers to their OS as "Mac OS X Leopard" as opposed to "10.5." Same thing here. Though it's 10.6, Apple prefers to refer to it as "Mac OS X Snow Leopard."

Unless of course it's neither a 10.5.x or 10.x release blink.gif

-Rich-
PureLegend
Guess this means no PowerPC dropping if it's faster than before tongue.gif
Quillz
Quote - (richardsim7 @ Jun 9 2008, 23:55) *
Unless of course it's neither a 10.5.x or 10.x release blink.gif

-Rich-

A few screenshots have already been leaked, and it very clearly says "Mac OS X 10.6" with a build of "10A96." I guess the full official name would be Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, but again, Apple tends to use 10.x and code name branding interchangeably. Sometimes they call it 10.5 and sometimes they call it Leopard.
Typhon
I hate Vista. Good thing Server 08 is working with no problems. I am going to buy a new iMac just cause I need less stress in my life.
Vegetunks
Quote - (Typhon @ Jun 10 2008, 08:08) *
I hate Vista. Good thing Server 08 is working with no problems. I am going to buy a new iMac just cause I need less stress in my life.


Thats why I got my MacBook
Typhon
Quote - (Vegetunks @ Jun 10 2008, 00:15) *
Thats why I got my MacBook



I think I might. I need a laptop cause I sold my old dv5000 and I do not want to deal with Vista and update drivers and tweaking the hell out of it. I do not mind Server 08 it works well. I just want to press the power button and get going. Here is a hell story. When I got my HP dv5000 in 2006 it took 1 hour and 20min to boot cause all the **** they loaded up and I ended up doing a full format with an oem xp disk. Then all the drives and **** ****es me off talking about.
Windam
^ you guys worry about the OS too damn much.

Just concentrate on what you want to accomplish.
Typhon
Quote - (Windam @ Jun 10 2008, 00:27) *
^ you guys worry about the OS too damn much.

Just concentrate on what you want to accomplish.


I cant when the os is slow as hell and has tons of crap I do not want.
PsykX
They're not talking about ZFS anywhere. It's not official, but I am also 100% sure it will make it in the final, because if they are looking at "performance and optimization", ZFS is the way to go.

Now, what crap are you talking about in Leopard? It's not bad at all, except these stupid MS trials of Office. But yeah, the OS is very laggy and needed these optimizations bad. So I'm really looking forward to it. Just when you resize a window, you can see that it's laggy, compared to Windows.
Unto Darkness
I think they need a new component which is an equivalent of Windows System Restore. Most users aren't going to spend a few more bucks to get an external HDD for Time Machine. The feature is great but a little impractical, a great backup solution but a lame roll back tool.
giga
Quote - (PsykX @ Jun 10 2008, 10:27) *
They're not talking about ZFS anywhere. It's not official, but I am also 100% sure it will make it in the final, because if they are looking at "performance and optimization", ZFS is the way to go.

Now, what crap are you talking about in Leopard? It's not bad at all, except these stupid MS trials of Office. But yeah, the OS is very laggy and needed these optimizations bad. So I'm really looking forward to it. Just when you resize a window, you can see that it's laggy, compared to Windows.


They're not talking about it for the client version, but the server version has it listed there as part of thea features.
kraized
Quote - (Unto Darkness @ Jun 10 2008, 15:33) *
I think they need a new component which is an equivalent of Windows System Restore. Most users aren't going to spend a few more bucks to get an external HDD for Time Machine. The feature is great but a little impractical, a great backup solution but a lame roll back tool.


Windows SR is one the "features" I immediately turn off when using Windows. OSX has Archive & Install.
PsykX
Hmm, so ZFS would be a server-only file system? Obviously yeah it's better for servers, but I'd appreciate having it here.
Hurmoth
Quote - (PsykX @ Jun 10 2008, 10:55) *
Hmm, so ZFS would be a server-only file system? Obviously yeah it's better for servers, but I'd appreciate having it here.

What benefit would a personal system have by using ZFS, just out of curiosity?
giga
Well..

From Orchard Spy: http://orchardspy.com/









And some german site: http://www.macnotes.de/2008/06/10/wwdc-os-...ard-screenshot/





The application sizes look a lot smaller, even though they're universal. (maybe no extra languages?). Safari is at version 4. There's an Exchange version of Address Book. Seeing more services get upgraded to 64-bit.
dhan
Quote - (Hurmoth @ Jun 10 2008, 11:08) *
What benefit would a personal system have by using ZFS, just out of curiosity?

Time Machine can be more efficient in terms of storage?
Disclaimer: I haven't used it even once - just going by the write up on Ars about it and how it works.
Hurmoth
Quote - (dhan @ Jun 10 2008, 11:17) *
Time Machine can be more efficient in terms of storage?
Disclaimer: I haven't used it even once - just going by the write up on Ars about it and how it works.

Interesting. Well I can still see where they're coming from putting it in the server version first over the home user.

At any rate, nice to see them making OS X slimmer and faster.
frission
Quote - (PureLegend @ Jun 10 2008, 06:57) *
Guess this means no PowerPC dropping if it's faster than before tongue.gif


Unless that's HOW they're getting some of their improved performance...by dropping legacy PPC specific code.

if you have a bunch of:

if PPC then
...
else
...
end if;

that could definitely use some improvement. This would also make the "footprint" that they talk about a lot smaller...two birds with one stone.


MrA
Quote - (frission @ Jun 10 2008, 11:30) *
Unless that's HOW they're getting some of their improved performance...by dropping legacy PPC specific code.

if you have a bunch of:

if PPC then
...
else
...
end if;

that could definitely use some improvement. This would also make the "footprint" that they talk about a lot smaller...two birds with one stone.

I'm sorry, but only an idiot would write code like that. Dumping PPC support wouldn't change performance, only app size.
PureLegend
Quote - (frission @ Jun 10 2008, 16:30) *
Unless that's HOW they're getting some of their improved performance...by dropping legacy PPC specific code.

Well the screenshots above show they're all still UB.
Windam
Didn't Apple start using ZFS in Leopard?
Vegetunks
Quote - (Unto Darkness @ Jun 10 2008, 15:33) *
I think they need a new component which is an equivalent of Windows System Restore. Most users aren't going to spend a few more bucks to get an external HDD for Time Machine. The feature is great but a little impractical, a great backup solution but a lame roll back tool.


Well, Time Machine is for recovering files you've misplaced or deleted. System Restore is for recovering system files that have been edited by malicious programs or general windows tardness. Another issue Mac OS X lacks smile.gif


Quote - (kraized @ Jun 10 2008, 15:39) *
Windows SR is one the "features" I immediately turn off when using Windows. OSX has Archive & Install.


+1, I turn it off whenever I setup someones Machine. Thats what Recovery Console is for biggrin.gif
giga
Quote - (Windam @ Jun 10 2008, 12:36) *
Didn't Apple start using ZFS in Leopard?

Only read-only mode through the command line. (though they released a developer preview for read/write).
Windam
Quote - (giga @ Jun 10 2008, 11:41) *
Only read-only mode through the command line. (though they released a developer preview for read/write).

ahh,

I take it Snow Leopard will have full integration of the file system then.
Timan
I just wish the next version of OSX, would not install PPC binaries if I'm using an Intel mac. (Not saying nix rosetta)

You can easily save 1+gb by removing the ppc stuff with xslimmer on a fresh install.
reactionary007
'..core software technologies that will streamline Windows, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality.'

'..dramatically reduces the footprint of Windows, making it even more efficient..'


If only the above was from a Microsoft Windows 7 promo page... I respect Apple for giving people what they want.
Mikee99
Quote - (reactionary007 @ Jun 10 2008, 12:50) *
'..core software technologies that will streamline Windows, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality.'

'..dramatically reduces the footprint of Windows, making it even more efficient..'


If only the above was from a Microsoft Windows 7 promo page... I respect Apple for giving people what they want.


What Windows 7 promo page? Frankly, I'm really glad MS isn't talking about Windows 7 too much. When you go on about the features your new OS can do, but then don't deliver those features, it lets everyone down. I would much rather be surprised then let down.
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