Leonick Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I have honestly no idea where they are going with it. It looks like something you would see on Linux. :x Sure does look weird... That thing must be breaking Apple own interface guidelines :p Wish they would just make it (and itunes) better instead of just give a new look. Why can't I click an artist and the click and play just one album? (Can in iTunes by using the column browser but it's far from as nice as the grid view) Why if I start a (video) podcast from the Music app (old and probably new one too) go to the Video app afterwards? Kind of makes sense, it's a video, but if they are going to do that couldn't they make sure podcast are displayed in chronological order in the Video app (like in music) instead of alphabetical... Also, thanks KeR for posting that screenshot, been looking on different iOS forum for a bigger picture of it, I noticed it in the keynote and on Apples site but there were no decent pictures of it anywhere... Here, although most barely qualify as truly new features. Are there any complete pages such as that one for iOS? Would love to know what all the smaller changes are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadEndAccount Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 They always do that, some of the new "features" are pretty laughable :D If they called it '250 changes' then it would be a whole lot more interesting than the claim of 250 new features. Meh, oh well, I'm happy with the refinement and price tag but too bad they've really put a lot of effort in trying to turn rudimentary refinements into something revolutionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Patriot Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 ^Thanks. I think apple really messed with the upgrade cycles this time. Usually iOS update is released in july now we have to wait couple of months more. It seems like everything (other than Lion) is a little behind the "normal" schedule right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 It seems like everything (other than Lion) is a little behind the "normal" schedule right now. AT&T's probably relieved they don't have to subsidize a new phone yet. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooky560 Veteran Posted June 8, 2011 Veteran Share Posted June 8, 2011 I love how no-one clapped during the keynote section about Launchpad, despite loving everything else :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonick Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I love how no-one clapped during the keynote section about Launchpad, despite loving everything else :p I can't see what everyone has against it :p It's obviously an improvement over the app stack, more space and easier to create folders for organizing, don't get why they have to limit the amount of apps in folders though, is scrolling so hard for common users? They can handle a browser :p I am not a OS X user (i won't count my VM) though so maybe that's why? :p Lion looks really interesting and I think ill be getting a new MacBook air whenever they come around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Two biggest problems I have with it: 1. Launchpad performs poorly (animations are jaggy) 2. There's no way to remove applications from Launchpad without deleting them from your system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonick Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Well, yea, can't argue with that. Odd that animations are bad, rest of lion seem to animate so smoothly. And yea, would be nice to be able to remove icons for Launchpad. Besides from those I actually do have a problem with it, the icon, hate it and the rest of the icons like it they introduced, it looks so wrong in the dock and they are just bland and ugly. Oh well, it's at least better than the one we saw in october Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 2. There's no way to remove applications from Launchpad without deleting them from your system. I think they want to to work just like iOS, which is a shame for power users but it does improve the consistency between the two platforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonick Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Well saurik have said he is going to launch a Cydia for Mac. I suppose that will be the perfect place to launch a tweak that lets you remove icons from launchpad :p Pretty sure someone will make one either way if it's at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I think they want to to work just like iOS, which is a shame for power users but it does improve the consistency between the two platforms. Power users? The other day I accidentally downloaded and added an application to Launchpad > deleted said application and now I'm stuck with a "?" in Launchpad. There's no way to get rid of it except Trashing the entire support file. Also, for some bizarre reason Keynote as been added twice to Launchpad. Again with no way to get rid of it. This has nothing to do with Launchpad being consistent with iOS, as these problems don't occur in iOS. It has everything to do with Launchpad being a complete and utter mess since day one. Unlike iOS the App Store isn't the only way to install applications on your Mac, hence the reason these problems exist. What works for iOS clearly doesn't work on Mac OS X. It's terribly implemented really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Power users? The other day I accidentally downloaded and added an application to Launchpad > deleted said application and now I'm stuck with a "?" in Launchpad. There's no way to get rid of it except Trashing the entire support file. Also, for some bizarre reason Keynote as been added twice to Launchpad. Again with no way to get rid of it. This has nothing to do with Launchpad being consistent with iOS, as these problems don't occur in iOS. It has everything to do with Launchpad being a complete and utter mess since day one. Unlike iOS the App Store isn't the only way to install applications on your Mac, hence the reason these problems exist. What works for iOS clearly doesn't work on Mac OS X. It's terribly implemented really. Those are obviously Launchpad bugs, but by the time that Launchpad ships, I imagine it'll work exactly as you'd expect: You hit the X, click "Delete", and the app is deleted from your system. Done. No in-between where the app is gone from Launchpad but still on your system. What you were inferring ("no way to remove applications from Launchpad without deleting them from your system") was removing an application from Launchpad without actually deleting the app from the system, which is inconsistent with iOS's Springboard behavior. Launchpad working properly isn't exactly a concern of developers since there are no APIs involved in Launchpad. It's probably the least of Apple's concerns right now in the DP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 That's a Launchpad bug, but by the time that Launchpad ships, I imagine it'll work exactly as you'd expect: You hit the X, click "Delete", and the app is deleted from your system. Except I don't want to delete Keynote from my system, I just want to get rid of the double icon... What you were inferring ("no way to remove applications from Launchpad without deleting them from your system") was removing an application from Launchpad without actually deleting the app from the system, which is inconsistent with iOS's Springboard behavior. Your point being? Fact is dat unlike on iOS there are a lot of applications present on any given Mac OS X installation (like iTunesHelper, update checkers, launch helpers, all kinds of Developer utilities without icons etc.) you would never want in your Dock or Launchpad. If for whatever reason you accidentally add one of those to Launchpad you're screwed: You can't get rid of it anymore without trashing the entire support file or edit its contents manually. Like I said, making Launchpad work identical to iOS' home screen is a tragedy on Mac OS X: It simply won't work for all the above reasons. Mac OS X ? iOS. And if they really want to make it consistent with iOS you shouldn't be able to add applications manually to Launchpad to begin with. Also, we're allowed to remove/hide icons from the Dock, Finder Sidebar and Dashboard Dock. Being able to do the same on Launchpad is suddenly too much? It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Except I don't want to delete Keynote from my system, I just want to get rid of the double icon... Again, that is a bug. (Hopefully) When it's final, that kind of thing won't happen. Your point being? Fact is dat unlike on iOS there are a lot of applications present on any given Mac OS X installations (like iTunesHelper, Update checkers, all kinds of Developer utilities without icons etc.) you would never want in your Dock of Launchpad. If for whatever reason you accidentally add one of those to Launchpad you're screwed: You can't get rid of it anymore without trashing the entire support file or edit its contents manually. I'm actually surprised Apple has let users add their own apps to Launchpad. With the design philosophy they're going for, they should really just let it be a list of applications in /Developer, /Applications, and ~/Applications. That's it. Like I said, making Launchpad work identical to iOS' home screen is a tragedy on Mac OS X: It simply won't work for all the above reasons. Mac OS X ? iOS. Also, we're allowed to remove icons from the Dock, Finder Sidebar and Dashboard Dock. Being able to do the same on Launchpad is suddenly too much? I didn't say I agreed with Apple's decision, but it's the path of least resistance and makes the most sense for technophobes. It's just another way to abstract the file system (since Apple absolutely hates file systems). They want Launchpad to be the list of installed applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 They want Launchpad to be the list of installed applications. Which isn't going to work simply because Mac OS X doesn't work the same way as iOS in this department. Next to that it's possible to dual boot. Launchpad doesn't play nice with applications installed on another Mac OS X partition. If you accidentally add an application from another partition to Launchpad you're once again screwed. Doesn't matter how you look at it, this concept isn't working on a Mac and it never will unless you lock the entire thing down like iOS. Surely if I can see the implications, Apple must realize this as well? I didn't say I agreed with Apple's decision, but it's the path of least resistance and makes the most sense for technophobes. It's just another way to abstract the file system (since Apple absolutely hates file systems). They want Launchpad to be the list of installed applications. Then why are we allowed to hide things from the Dock, Dashboard, Finder sidebar etc.? Like I said, being able to do so with Launchpad is suddenly too much? Apple could easily go the same route as Dashboard allowing you to hide certain applications the same you can you hide widgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Which isn't going to work simply because Mac OS X doesn't work the same way as iOS in this department. You can just dump all the applications you don't want in the last page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Star Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Which isn't going to work simply because Mac OS X doesn't work the same way as iOS in this department. Next to that it's possible to dual boot. Launchpad doesn't play nice with applications installed on another Mac OS X partition. If you accidentally add an application from another partition to Launchpad you're once again screwed. Doesn't matter how you look at it, this concept isn't working on a Mac. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Lion is the testing ground for this crap and they will make it better in the next version. Expect a radical change to something iOS like after Lion, because you can tell with Lion that Apple has no where else to go with Mac OSX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 You can just dump all the applications you don't want in the last page Obviously that's not preferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomZ Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Just a quick question because I've had a mac less than a year and never had to use time machine yet (touch wood). If I completely wipe my hard drive, install lion and restore from time machine, will I have issues if I then do a clean install of Leopard (i.e. does time machine not like going backwards OS versions)? Or are there any downsides to doing this at all other than the obvious time it will take to copy data back from time machine? I've currently got it installed on a separate partition but it's got the the point where I am fancying it as my main OS, until we get the GM, but don't fancy losing all my data/having a nightmare with time machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Which isn't going to work simply because Mac OS X doesn't work the same way as iOS in this department. Next to that it's possible to dual boot. Launchpad doesn't play nice with applications installed on another Mac OS X partition. If you accidentally add an application from another partition to Launchpad you're once again screwed. Doesn't matter how you look at it, this concept isn't working on a Mac and it never will unless you lock the entire thing down like iOS. Surely if I can see the implications, Apple must realize this as well? You're coming up with a lot of scenarios that theoretically break it but that a normal user will never see. For a normal user, Launchpad will work and it will be invaluable. Again, I think the perfect implementation of Launchpad would be one that just aggregates current installation (to avoid dual boot issues) applications from /Developer, /Applications, and ~/Applications. Don't allow users to add their own applications to it. Don't allow users to remove apps from it without deleting the application from their system. For a normal user, Launchpad will work exactly like I've described in the final version of Lion, but it almost seems like Apple has tried to make Launchpad too smart, and now there are plenty of scenarios where it breaks or operates less-than-desirably for power users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 You're coming up with a lot of scenarios that theoretically break it but that a normal user will never see. For a normal user, Launchpad will work and it will be invaluable. Nonsense. In fact the first time a friend of mine used Mac OS X Lion he managed to accidentally add the Perian launch supporter to Launchpad. Absolutely nothing theoretical about that. Again, I think the perfect implementation of Launchpad would be one that just aggregates current installation (to avoid dual boot issues) applications from /Developer, /Applications, and ~/Applications. Don't allow users to add their own applications to it. Don't allow users to remove apps from it without deleting the application from their system. For a normal user, Launchpad will work exactly like I've described in the final version of Lion, but it almost seems like Apple has tried to make Launchpad too smart, and now there are plenty of scenarios where it breaks or operates less-than-desirably for power users. Any normal user will experience these issues more than us simply because they're even less experienced with using their computers. Apple explicitly said in the keynote that Launchpad will work with applications regardless of where they are on your system: So that's the problem right there. I said it before and I'll say it again: Every single part of Mac OS X allows you to hide or remove things. The Desktop, Dock, Dashboard, Finder sidebar, Toolbars etc. Hell, in Mac OS X Lion even System Preferences allows you to hide preference panes from view. It doesn't really matter how you spin things around, it makes no sense at all that Launchpad is pretty much the only one that doesn't allow for this. Especially not seen the implications. Period. There's such an easy fix for this: Do the same as in Dashboard and System Preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
instant.human Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 That's all really terrible, .Neo but err... it's not final. It's a pre-version. It is allowed to have bugs that (hopefully) by the time it gets released, which could be anywhere from the 1st of July til the 31st, will be gone... so there is still time, especially since it's being released in the App Store which, as many have pointed out, gives Apple more time because they don't need to account the time for shipping and production and all... You are right with everything you say, it can't stay that way but I don't think it will, those bugs will be gone.. Also, and that's the greatest thing, you don't HAVE to use it once it comes out. So if you don't like it... don't use it. :) It's clearly not for everyone. Maybe it's marketed that way but it's not... I like the idea and I also like that it seems to be supposed to be like THE go-to place for all you apps and not just a "launcher" in the traditional sense, meaning shortcuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Don't get me wrong: I fully realize this is still a developer preview. However these issues have been present from the very start. With Mac OS X Panther, Tiger, Leopard and even Snow Leopard everyone expected certain issues to be addressed but in the end they weren't. I don't have a lot of faith that Launchpad will be much improved before Mac OS X Lion hits the App Store. But here's to hoping... The thing is I like Launchpad and see myself using it regularly, however currently it's just broken. Also if I were to ignore Launchpad not that much is left that makes upgrading to Mac OS X Lion worthwhile. :laugh: (just kidding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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