LOC Veteran Posted September 22, 2011 Veteran Share Posted September 22, 2011 Very interesting to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindTrickz Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 im no scientist :laugh: but is it possible that whatever system theyre using to measure the time just isnt that accurate? i mean, they are talking billionths of a second at this point. how accurate are their stop watches? :cool: also, when they say they shot the neutrinos 732km, was that in a dead-straight line through the earth (flat) or did they take into account the curve of the earth? They calculated for margin of error and ran the test over and over again and still got the same result. CERN says a neutrino beam fired from a particle accelerator near Geneva to a lab 454 miles (730 kilometers) away in Italy traveled 60 nanoseconds faster than the speed of light. Scientists calculated the margin of error at just 10 nanoseconds, making the difference statistically significant. But given the enormous implications of the find, they still spent months checking and rechecking their results to make sure there was no flaws in the experimen Come on Einstein cant be wrong... have you ever tried to solve E=MC2? Its complex and I have No idea how he was able do that without even being there on textbooks. Einstein is only human and could have made a mistakes, so saying that he could not be wrong is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindTrickz Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The article I read suggested that FermiLab was going to attempt to replicate CERN's experiment. They've done similar work before but the margin or error from that (FermiLab's) experiment was large enough to make the results seem like an error. This whole thing was described as the scientific equivalent to the theoretical invention of a flying carpet. If it can be confirmed then it goes against everything that we thought we knew about physics. The article from the Associated Press mentioned FermiLab but indicated that the lab had not run the test yet. A similar neutrino experiment at Fermilab near Chicago would be capable of running the tests, said Stavros Katsanevas, the deputy director of France's National Institute for Nuclear and Particle Physics Research. The institute collaborated with Italy's Gran Sasso National Laboratory for the experiment at CERN. Katsanevas said help could also come from the T2K experiment in Japan, though that is currently on hold after the country's devastating March 11 earthquake and tsunami.http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BREAKING_LIGHT_SPEED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrack Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 im no scientist :laugh: but is it possible that whatever system theyre using to measure the time just isnt that accurate? i mean, they are talking billionths of a second at this point. how accurate are their stop watches? :cool: also, when they say they shot the neutrinos 732km, was that in a dead-straight line through the earth (flat) or did they take into account the curve of the earth? A couple billionths of a second would be nanoseconds (10^-9). How good are we at nanoseconds? Well, the waveform of the clock on your computer is on the order of about 2-3GHz or about 0.333 * 10^-9 seconds per cycle. And that's just consumer electronics. If they said a couple of femtoseconds then I would be concerned. But even if it were picoseconds, I probably would say that a world leading scientific laboratory should be capable of that kind of timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattmatik Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 20 years hey? Try going back just a LITTLE farther than that for BW TV's. :blink: And the 'net' was around, it just wasn't what your current day net looked or acted like. Hehe, I read that was like WTF? I was born in 1980 and have always known color TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCordRm Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 20 years hey? Try going back just a LITTLE farther than that for BW TV's. :blink: And the 'net' was around, it just wasn't what your current day net looked or acted like. Not too much further back... hell, I had a Black-n-White TV, and I'm only 40. In other news, I'm going to quote myself: "Science is ****ing cool." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
still1 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Einstein is only human and could have made a mistakes, so saying that he could not be wrong is ridiculous. Dude, that was meant to be a joke.... Damn I fail at Jokes... I believe your mind is playing tricks on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted September 22, 2011 Veteran Share Posted September 22, 2011 The article from the Associated Press mentioned FermiLab but indicated that the lab had not run the test yet. They ran similar tests back in 2007 but the margin of error in that test was too high for the results to be taken seriously. ?It?s a shock,? said Fermilab head theoretician Stephen Parke, who was not part of the research in Geneva. ?It?s going to cause us problems, no doubt about that ? if it?s true.? The Chicago team had similar faster-than-light results in 2007, but those came with a giant margin of error that undercut its scientific significance. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/science/scientists-in-shock-after-breaking-speed-of-light/article2176328/ Needless to say, they'll be running those tests over again using the same setup CERN used that yielded them more accurate results (with a lower margin of error). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farstrider Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 im no scientist :laugh: but is it possible that whatever system theyre using to measure the time just isnt that accurate? i mean, they are talking billionths of a second at this point. how accurate are their stop watches? :cool: also, when they say they shot the neutrinos 732km, was that in a dead-straight line through the earth (flat) or did they take into account the curve of the earth? Seriously, do you think that the apparatuses that they use for these sophisticated measurements are something that you may have in your house?? plus, who's to say that the earth doesn't shift in size by a trillionth of an inch, earthquakes somewhere, whatever... if it made the distance shorter, it would seem faster unless they have that factored in? Your hypothesis is not consequential as it would not make any difference to a neutrino fired off in a straight line, no matter what got in it's way, it would just go straight through it and would continue traveling on precisely the same trajectory! Neutrinos are electrically neutral and are able to pass through ordinary matter almost unaffected, "like a bullet passing through a bank of fog". Neutrinos have a very small, but nonzero mass. So that stated, nothing between two points on earth will effect the outcome of the measurement! Also stated is that they have factored a 10 nanosecond error margin into the calculation. All these things taken into consideration I would say that the result of the tests are pretty amazing and it will be interesting to see what transpires from hereon in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyyPunk Veteran Posted September 22, 2011 Veteran Share Posted September 22, 2011 my stance has always been our math just can't handle it yet, but it is possible :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexcyn Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I love science, this is pretty wild and amazing news. I will be watching the results from the other labs very closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Derf Veteran Posted September 22, 2011 Veteran Share Posted September 22, 2011 Zefram Cochrane still has 52 years to get the details figured out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zefram_Cochrane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hum Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Speed-of-light experiments yield baffling result at LHC Puzzling results from Cern, home of the LHC, have confounded physicists - because it appears subatomic particles have exceeded the speed of light. Neutrinos sent through the ground from Cern toward the Gran Sasso laboratory 732km away seemed to show up a tiny fraction of a second early. The result - which threatens to upend a century of physics - will be put online for scrutiny by other scientists. The speed of light is the Universe's ultimate speed limit, and much of modern physics - as laid out in part by Albert Einstein in his theory of relativity - depends on the idea that nothing can exceed it. Hmm ... where have we heard this before ... The speed of Light is not the limit. There is an even larger Electromagnetic spectrum. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravensky Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 im no scientist :laugh: but is it possible that whatever system theyre using to measure the time just isnt that accurate? i mean, they are talking billionths of a second at this point. how accurate are their stop watches? :cool: also, when they say they shot the neutrinos 732km, was that in a dead-straight line through the earth (flat) or did they take into account the curve of the earth? Seems to me that if they can move subatomic particles 732km and they can move light through the same system and the subatomic particles are getting there faster than light, then does the distance traveled even matter if the particles consitently arrive faster? This would mean that even if they were off on the distance then the result is still the same, unless they are just assuming it would arrive earlier because they are basing their equation off of c=(e=mc^2*732km) without testing light through the same system. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Seems to me that if they can move subatomic particles 732km and they can move light through the same system and the subatomic particles are getting there faster than light, then does the distance traveled even matter if the particles consitently arrive faster? This would mean that even if they were off on the distance then the result is still the same, unless they are just assuming it would arrive earlier because they are basing their it off an equation of c=(e=mc^2*732km) without testing light through the same system. *shrug* If the path was perfectly straight, they could, but at that distance, I'm sure it has a curve to it. The particles they are sending are magnetically centered, so in its case, it doesn't matter if the path is straight or curved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravensky Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 If the path was perfectly straight, they could, but at that distance, I'm sure it has a curve to it. The particles they are sending are magnetically centered, so in its case, it doesn't matter if the path is straight or curved. So then if distance doesn't matter, and curviture of the path doesn't matter either then it would seem logical that the particles are indeed moving faster than light... cool stuff! Unless light slows down when its bent across a significant curve...hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenBeard Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 If this turns out to be true I will laugh at all the solutions we dismissed because V > C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Decimator Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Dammnit, I failed! The human race now knows that the speed of light can be exceeded, thus giving us access to time travel, &, consequently, the Terminators. Looks like I'll have to try again, I'll set the dial back a few hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 So then if distance doesn't matter, and curviture of the path doesn't matter either then it would seem logical that the particles are indeed moving faster than light... cool stuff! Unless light slows down when its bent across a significant curve...hmmm... haha Ummm... I don't think that would be a logical conclusion. In the end, it comes down to their calculations with all the real-world variables in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravensky Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I know...just thinking out loud...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyfrog Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I can't say I'm really surprised. I always wondered why there had be be a certain "speed limit" that nothing could exceed. Of course I'm not a particle physicist but it always seemed like one of those things we would eventually discover was wrong and one day look back and laugh about, like how some people once believed that everything was made of four elements. Even if it turns out he was wrong on this, Einstein was still awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulsiphon Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 "My dream would be that another, independent experiment finds the same thing - then I would be relieved," Dr Ereditato said. This would be my dream too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Miller Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Isn't the limit of the speed of light just a theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeta_immersion Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Hehe, I read that was like WTF? I was born in 1980 and have always known color TV. you do have to realize the many people on neowin are of different backgrounds and from other parts of the world where color TVs were not introduced as soon as they came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts