uk Muslim medical students boycotting lectures on evolution

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Muslim medical students boycotting lectures on evolution... because it 'clashes with the Koran'

Muslim students, including trainee doctors on one of Britain's leading medical courses, are walking out of lectures on evolution claiming it conflicts with creationist ideas established in the Koran.

Professors at University College London have expressed concern over the increasing number of biology students boycotting lectures on Darwinist theory, which form an important part of the syllabus, citing their religion.

Similar to the beliefs expressed by fundamentalist Christians, Muslim opponents to Darwinism maintain that Allah created the world, mankind and all known species in a single act.

Steve Jones emeritus professor of human genetics at university college London has questioned why such students would want to study biology at all when it obviously conflicts with their beliefs.

He told the Sunday Times: 'I had one or two slightly frisky discussions years ago with kids who belonged to fundamentalist Christian churches, now it is Islamic overwhelmingly.

'They don't come [to lectures] or they complain about it or they send notes or emails saying they shouldn't have to learn this stuff.

'What they object to - and I don't really understand it, I am not religious - they object to the idea that there is a random process out there which is not directed by God.'

Earlier this year Usama Hasan, iman of the Masjid al-Tawhid mosque in Leyton, received death threats for suggesting that Darwinism and Islam might be compatible.

Sources within the group Muslims4UK partly blame the growing popularity of creationist beliefs within Islam on Turkish author Harun Yahya who, influenced by the success of Christian creationists in America, has written several books denouncing Darwinist theory.

Yahya associates Dawinism with Nazism and his books are and videos are available at many Islamic bookshops in the UK and regularly feature on Islamic television channels.

Speakers regularly tour Britain lecturing on Yahya's beliefs.

One such lecture was given at UCL in 2008 and this year's talks have been given in London, Manchester, Leeds, Dundee and Glasgow.

Evolutionary Biologist and former Oxford Professor Richard Dawkins has expressed his concern at the number of students, consisting almost entirely of Muslims, who do not attend or walk out of lectures.

Source: Daily Mail

[Wolfbane]

Hopefully they all fail, nobody should have to put their life in the hands of a doctor who skipped 1/2 their biology lectures.

And what was the point in the article mentioning some idiot who equated Darwinism with Nazism, and showing an image of the same idiot's article which denounces obsolete evidence which nobody cares about anymore?

[mudslag]

Other then this is coming from the DailyMail wasnt something along these lines just talked about in the religion post?

[Dick Montage]

Such is their choice, but don't give them any special exemption from pass grades.

[The Teej]

In the earliest reference to Genesis 1:27 I can find, it clearly states "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.". Now, only in newer translations it states this "man" is a human being, of course this is merely an assumption. It never specifically states in older texts said creations are actually human beings (AFAIK). Seen as the theory of evolution dictates apes and human beings share a common ancestory, and so said man and woman who have been created by god could possibly be said common ancestor, doesn't this leave a gap as to where creationism (at least, in the biblical version) and evolution can co-exist?

Just a thought ^^'

[Japlabot]

In general, can't they just say that God built evolution into his creations and therefore evolution is not a conflict creationism? Or to even suggest that extinct ancestors are the remnants of the building blocks of god's creations? Too simple no? I guess you can't fight religion with logical explanations, as religions are not based on logic.

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

It's part of the programme, so no course credit - no degree! And, I assume, they've already paid for course. So, they are the ones who are playing with fire here and who have the most to lose from this: the wasted time, energy, and money, and in the end - no diploma.

So yeah, guys, take more courses you are not going to complete, so the school gets your money and the students who genuinely want to study can now do it better with less distraction in the room.

[ThisSiteHasLostItsCharm]

supose they think dinosaurs weren't real either. other life etc has been around on this planet a lot longer than any religon.

[Joshie]

In the earliest reference to Genesis 1:27 I can find, it clearly states "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.". Now, only in newer translations it states this "man" is a human being, of course this is merely an assumption. It never specifically states in older texts said creations are actually human beings (AFAIK). Seen as the theory of evolution dictates apes and human beings share a common ancestory, and so said man and woman who have been created by god could possibly be said common ancestor, doesn't this leave a gap as to where creationism (at least, in the biblical version) and evolution can co-exist?

Just a thought ^^'

As far as I can tell by looking it over, Genesis is at least clear on the point that the 'male and female' were the humans, and chapter two goes out of its way to explain that point. It begins by finishing up the seven days with a day of rest, then basically says "So about that day man and woman were created--here's how it happened." The story of the creation of Adam and Eve then follows. If nothing else, just look into the original language the Genesis story was told in. People waste a lot of time worrying about how one English edition of the Bible differs from another English edition, when all that really matters is which one is more accurately translated. Because that's what the Bible is--a translation, and inherently inaccurate.

Of course, there's the bizarre group of people who believe that the words of the Bible are somehow magical and no matter how you translate them, simply writing them on paper forces them to convey the message intended by God because holy words transcend human error. Sure, it's a ridiculous notion that's been many times proven false simply by enormous inconsistencies between translations, but people are good at being ridiculous. It's just so much easier than paying actual attention.

[Muhammad Farrukh]

As much as I hate to say it, they should at least take the lectures.

Without a doubt, it contradincts their beliefs but I don't think the University is gonna give them a degree with such a behaviour.

I haven't studied medical so I don't know the exact thing but I don't think there is practicle implementation of evolution in proffessional carrier so if they don't want it, and they have a point there, the university should give them degrees.

[Albert]

it's curious that most monotheism religions have problem accepting evolution. i guess they are confident that they will find all the answer they will ever need in their 2000+ year old good books.

[Eddo89]

I had a devout Christian friend who also took a course that involved talk of evolution, and he hated it. Yet he did it, this is what those students should do.

I'm an atheist, but I can see why they would be upset, try forcing me go to a bible class and my blood will boil the same way. But the world do not evolve around them, a course do not revolve around them. Take it on the chin and move on, I really don't think it is a religious issue, they are a bunch of cry babies. They need to realise crying and whinging about it won't change a thing, other than paint a bad look for any religious people.

As for the biology students, like Professor Jones queried there, why would they take such a course in the first place. If is part of medical course, then fine. But they basically walked willingly into it as surely they would had a vague idea on what sort of course the degree encompasses. And then they complain and whinge about it. I'm sorry, I have no sympathy for you. I have sympathy and respect if you can sit through it and accept as a different "opinion", but to simply walk out shows how close minded these people are.

I think the key thing to note, they surely aren't the only Muslims to had taken a biology degree or accepted in medical school, or any religious people for that matter. It is a danger to simply associate their acts with the various faiths, as they are more likely be the anomaly than the norm.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Eddo89

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Can someone, with medical history, please tell me weather or not Evolution has influence in the proffessional career?

Because if it is only for the history' sake, then it should be compulsory, at least for theists

[Knife Party]

if they were truly muslim they would be prepared to do any course, as would anyone who calls themselves christian, jewish etc. One cannot truly follow God if you are so easily misled by the obstacles of your journey, they are opportunities in disguise.

[GrayW]

If you don't complete the course, you don't pass. It's very simple.

I'm sure there is at least one part in every diploma / degree course that somebody hates but has to sit through.

If you don't like it, you know what to do.

[thommcg]

Were it false we'd not have antibiotic resistance and drugs from decades ago would be just as effective now as they were then. Penicillin, for example, is nowhere near as effective as it was in the 1940s.

That aside, if it's part of their course and they refuse it - Fail them. I'd presume the course literature breaks down the modules in each semester so it presumably would have been flagged in advance - Don't get into the field if that's big an issue.

[zhangm Supervisor]

It should not be a choice in the medical field. Either they're all-in, or they should GTFO and find a different profession.

[firey]

Religion and it's stupidity strikes again! Fail them all, they aren't completing the courses laid out in the guidelines over some BS Story someone told them. If I chose not to go to math because my religion said that subtraction was the work of the devil, I'd of failed my math courses, the same should apply to these people.

[kavi14]

Deceiving but not surprising. Not strange they still fight among themselves and yeah if they don't like it, stay in your goddamn country. Don't boycott your class to make teachers look like fools, morons.

Maybe we should tell them 72 virgins will wait for them after the classes...

[FloatingFatMan]

Good, so they'll fail their course and won't become doctors. Excellent, because I really don't want to be worked on by an ignorant savage. thanks.

I haven't studied medical so I don't know the exact thing but I don't think there is practicle implementation of evolution in proffessional carrier so if they don't want it, and they have a point there, the university should give them degrees.

There is; Immunology for one wouldn't work if it wasn't a practical demonstration of evolution in progress.

If they don't take this required part of the course, they will fail and will not get their degrees. I see this as a good thing as idiots shouldn't be doctors.

[ArialBlue]

Well than fail them and move on, don't make it complicated.

[Muhammad Farrukh]

There is; Immunology for one wouldn't work if it wasn't a practical demonstration of evolution in progress.

And I think they'll be aware of this fact and won't choose it because it contradicts their beliefs.

I don't see the problem here.

And they, in no way, should fail.

I know they are upset and all and aren't doing the right thing, at least in my opinion, but it doesn't mean they won't make good doctors

[zhangm Supervisor]

I know they are upset and all and aren't doing the right thing, at least in my opinion, but it doesn't mean they won't make good doctors

They are demonstrating that they will prioritize their personal beliefs over the needs of their future patients.

[Exaeus]

And I think they'll be aware of this fact and won't choose it because it contradicts their beliefs. I don't see the problem here. And they, in no way, should fail. I know they are upset and all and aren't doing the right thing, at least in my opinion, but it doesn't mean they won't make good doctors

They'll end up as "doctors" who under- or over-prescribe antibiotics without knowing the dangers of doing either, continue giving out flu shots and cancer treatments using medication from a decade ago because they don't know why new vaccines are needed, have a limited understanding of modern anatomy, and do not know how to help the public react to and prevent new outbreaks because they lack the knowledge to trace the origins of pathogens and predict evolution patterns. All those aside, understanding the basics of evolutionary science broadens one's understanding of the nature of life, and of the people and families they will be helping. There may not be many uses for specific aspects of evolutionary science on a daily basis, but evolutionary perspective will play an important role at some point or other in their medical work.

When students receive a degree from an institution, it means the institution is putting its prestige on the line that the student has received adequate knowledge and training. When a reputable institution allows a student to graduate as a doctor, it does not mean that the student is in fact graduating as a glorified medicine man who has no idea why he does what he does. Nor should any reputable institution concede to nonsense simply to appease theists. If those kids are really that determined to reject facts and science, they need to stay out of colleges and universities and go learn about spiritual healing in madrassahs instead.

[soniqstylz]

I would like to note that a good chunk of the evolution of medicine in Western society came about from European contact with the Muslim world during the Crusades.