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jnelsoninjax

Family Pictures Taken With Santa, Machine Guns

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Ok, so exactly what is wrong with the picture ? So the family loves guns and shows it by posing with them. It's like every other hobby, people pose with their RC models, race cars, 4x4's etc all the time and you don't see comments saying " Look at the dumb redneck posing with his RC model, race car etc". No one in the picture is doing nothing wrong. This gun hate plain stupid and ignorant.

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The difference being:

Redneck family with RC models = harmless.

Redneck family with guns = accident waiting to happen.

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Redneck family with guns = accident waiting to happen.

No.

As they say in Massachusetts..."Ted Kennedy's car killed more people than my guns."

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Purely as a non biased psychological study, would the pro gun posters still feel the same way about this image if it were the same image but with a fully dressed Afgani family holding rifles replacing the americans? Or would it become offensive?

Also, I appreciate a good firearm, but I don't understand the USA obsession! :)

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DocM is ready for the zombiez!

You owe me a keyboard & monitor cleaning kit as I was wearing the attached shooting club team shirt when I read your post :D

Purely as a non biased psychological study, would the pro gun posters still feel the same way about this image if it were the same image but with a fully dressed Afgani family holding rifles replacing the Americans? Or would it become offensive?

If they're against the Taliban & AQ no harm, no foul. We can go out together and blast plastic milk jugs full of red Kool Aid with the AQ leader-of-the-month's face pasted on the front.

Also, I appreciate a good firearm, but I don't understand the USA obsession! :)

It's really no different than people who obsess over cars or any other mechanical contrivance. Pick one. Besides that -, they're a legitimate and effective tool for self defense, something that even the majority of our police officers fully support because they know that they can't be everywhere.

Now add that our founders knew that the only way you can resist an oppressive regime is by force of arms, and so guaranteed gun rights in the Constitution. Here in Michigan that was taken seriously enough that it's also in our 1963 State constitution.

post-347280-0-04573700-1322551574.jpg

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(Over-sized image, see first page)

"But they sure as hell help.", should probably be amended to that.

Also, unlike a USB stick or a lighter I'm not likely to kill someone with either when I'm a little bit miffed and had a few too many to drink. As for the knife... I probably wouldn't call someone caught carrying that around a "slasher", but the words homicidal maniac might lurk in the back of my mind whenever I see him again.

Now add that our founders knew that the only way you can resist an oppressive regime is by force of arms, and so guaranteed gun rights in the Constitution. Here in Michigan that was taken seriously enough that it's also in our 1963 State constitution.

It's not really "adding" that to a list of reasons, it is that single point that ensured your right to arms and no other.

As for the American ideal that it is not only their duty to, but that they have the capacity to, overthrow any modern "regime"... it is ludicrous. The technology and military might of a modern government, especially the American government, has rendered it nigh on impossible to overthrow through violence. You would be labeled as terrorists, tracked down, spied on and thrown into Guantanamo bay before you ever fired a single shot.

I always find it odd that a country so obsessed with this capacity to overthrow it's own government so easily surrenders it's personal liberties in matters of unwarranted surveillance and tracking. As though that were less important than being able to ineffectually wield small arms.

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Here in NY, the politicians only want two groups to have guns: the police and the criminals. His confusion is understandable, but with some education, he may be saved.

Here in most of what you coastal people derisively call "flyover country" the majority would find it entertaining, even cool.

Actually I'm totally fine with people having guns, I've considered gun ownership in the past and decided that it's probably not for me but I'm totally fine with other people owning guns. I have nothing against them. Well, so long as the people owning the guns aren't violent criminals. I'm not exactly sure why I find the original image disturbing but I do.

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>

It's not really "adding" that to a list of reasons, it is that single point that ensured your right to arms and no other.

As for the American ideal that it is not only their duty to, but that they have the capacity to, overthrow any modern "regime"... it is ludicrous. The technology and military might of a modern government, especially the American government.....

Actually, per the Heller decision self defense is a co-equal right to all others.

I would also remind you that much of the US in-country ground and air assets are in the hands of the National Guard - citizen-soldiers under the command of the state Governors. In the event of major shenanigans in DC their loyalty cannot be 100% guaranteed.

Remember what happened in Moscow when the Politburo ordered an attack on the revolutionary leaders: it was ignored - they wouldn't fire on civilians.

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Actually I'm totally fine with people having guns, I've considered gun ownership in the past and decided that it's probably not for me but I'm totally fine with other people owning guns. I have nothing against them. Well, so long as the people owning the guns aren't violent criminals. I'm not exactly sure why I find the original image disturbing but I do.

It's gotta be the baby in camo. He's totally missing the little camo headband, little plastic hunting knife and plastic fake ammo belt. :p

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Good god... :|

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The gun is a SIG, the cartridge the .40 S&W developded for the FBI after the Florida 1980's shootout where they lost 5 agents due to their 9mm's and .38's being inadequate in stopping power. .40's are now used by most law enforcement agencies in the US, the FBI, Border Patrol, ICE, Coast Guard etc.

The round shown is a 135 grain Federal HST developed for the Dept. of Homeland Security for use in the HK P2000sk (sk = sc = subcompact) they use for deep cover. In spite of the parentage of this law enforcement combat round you can buy them in WalMart - $23 for a box of 50. Federal full metal jackets are $25 for a box of 100 here.

The HST's big advantage is its rapid expansion to .68" or as much as .84", creating a 1,700+ lb-ft pressure wave that can cause tissue damage far from the wound, including deep concussions or strokes in the brain, or broken bones from a flesh wound to an extremity. They're also good at penetrating glass and sheet metal.

The black gadget is an UpLULA magazine speed-loader.

mmmmm :o when i move to america im going to have a large amount of guns including rifles, shotguns and hand guns... whats the laws on owning assault rifles and sub machine guns over there? I am seriously planning a whole room dedicated to covert equipment but im very limited over here ! and whats the pricing handgun wise over there?

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Actually, per the Heller decision self defense is a co-equal right to all others.

I would also remind you that much of the US in-country ground and air assets are in the hands of the National Guard - citizen-soldiers under the command of the state Governors. In the event of major shenanigans in DC their loyalty cannot be 100% guaranteed.

Remember what happened in Moscow when the Politburo ordered an attack on the revolutionary leaders: it was ignored - they wouldn't fire on civilians.

True, but could it ever reach that point in America, whatever state the government descended to? Surveillance technology in a modern society is such that any organised resistance would be trivial to detect and disband, and on top of that you can push people surprisingly far before they would ever disrupt their daily routine enough for them to do something about it. Let alone for them to take on one of the world's greatest super powers.

Such movements are not impossible, nor are they completely outside the realms of reason, but to a properly organised government they are certainly approaching it. And I know this is a purely hypothetical, and somewhat ludicrous, situation but if the government were to become so corrupt as to require overthrowing do you believe they would be incapable of hiding this fact? Or skewing public opinion in their favor?

Anyway, I guess my main point is that the national guard's loyalty may well not be a concern when they are told they are fighting terrorists for the good of their country.

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Actually, I have never killed a human, but, I have killed deer and wild hogs, for food, and I use the hide for random things, (carpet mostly, have made a blanket as well.)

Great tool for hunting IMO, but I'm taking it you guys are vegan or something? Whatever you may be, a gun may have been designed for killing, but it's uses differ depending on the hands it is in. Just like a flash drive, knife, lighter, rope, box cutter, vehicle.... anything is potentially dangerous. As someone posted earlier, inanimate objects aren't the problem.... Bet you can guess what is though. Next time, don't post such an asinine comment without using your mind first.

Seriously you don't need to go out hunting for food that is what a supermarket is for. Join the 21st century.

Guns are for killing that is all they are designed for.

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Seriously you don't need to go out hunting for food that is what a supermarket is for. Join the 21st century.

Guns are for killing that is all they are designed for.

Cmon, a gun is tool just like those other objects shown! If you cannot open a door, shoot the lock off! Need a can of food opened? Shoot that ****! Need to hammer a nail in the wall! Shoot it (just make sure you have good aim). See, a gun was designed for many other purposes other than ending life (both human and animal). Why can't you see that?

And yes, I am being incredibly sarcastic. Anyone who believes that guns exist for any other reason other than to kill are for whatever reason just not facing reality. That is their sole purpose, that is why they exist. When used properly and correctly, they end a life. Whether it is hunting an animal, or protecting yourself from a criminal, the money shot is a kill. Sure, you can have fun shooting at targets, etc., so they have a secondary purpose, but do not kid oneself, they are meant to end life.

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Seriously you don't need to go out hunting for food that is what a supermarket is for. Join the 21st century.

Guns are for killing that is all they are designed for.

Actually here in Texas the wild hog population is so dangerous they have been known to attack and kill people on their property. They breed at an alarming rate and without hunting and professionals keeping their population in check much of Texas' human and crop population would be in danger.

In a similar argument, swords were designed for killing, that is the only purpose they serve but does anyone berate Blizzard Entertainment for handing out swords to their employees for their 5, 10, 15, and 20 year anniversaries with the company? Of course they don't, at least not on the widespread condemnation if a company did the same with artisan firearms, even though both items have the same propensity to cause death if used correctly. Hell, I can give a sword to anyone and they could instantly start stabbing people through the chest with enough upper body strength but if I gave a firearm to someone then more times than not without any guidance or training they would miss their target.

Firearms are not simply for killing, they have become a sport that requires the same training and dedication as any other sport. Target shooting, competition shooting, and hunting are why the majority of people own a firearm in America. I don't understand how Britons can instantly condemn firearms when most of them alive today have never even seen one in person, much less been properly trained in safety, function, and operation of a firearm. They only know firearms can be used to kill people therefore firearms must be bad.

Nothing, anyone says on an internet debate is going to change any minds. The same people are going to be close minded about any sporting uses a firearm could hold and someone who enjoys the sporting uses of firearms are never going to admit they are all bad. I have used firearms for both of these purposes, I have used them to kill people in combat and I own several currently for target shooting, as the intense amount of concentration and focus required to hit a target over 1000 meters away is very calming and helps relieve a great deal of stress in my life.

On the subject of this photo, is it wrong for these people to take their Christmas photo while holding firearms? I don't see any reason it is, however I do personally view it as unnecessary.

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And yes, I am being incredibly sarcastic. Anyone who believes that guns exist for any other reason other than to kill are for whatever reason just not facing reality. That is their sole purpose, that is why they exist. When used properly and correctly, they end a life. Whether it is hunting an animal, or protecting yourself from a criminal, the money shot is a kill. Sure, you can have fun shooting at targets, etc., so they have a secondary purpose, but do not kid oneself, they are meant to end life.

That's why the state of NJ likes to keep the guns owned by two groups: the criminals and the police. :yes:

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Why is stuff like this even allowed to be posted here? All it ever does is start flame wars....

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....whats the laws on owning assault rifles and sub machine guns over there?

If the barrel is over 16", it has an overall length of 26 inches and it's a semi-automatic it's treated no different than any hunting rifle. SKS, AK, HK - whatever. Machine guns require first that State law permits them. If so you to fill out paper with the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms), go through background checks and pay a $200 tax on each weapon. The same procedure applies to "Destructive Devices" - hand grenades, grenade launchers, missiles with a charge of more than 1/4 oz., bazooka's, bombs, artillery etc.

....whats the pricing handgun wise over there?

Just talking new here. For a low end Hi-Point pistol $130 - $200 street. Very basic, not fancy & maybe a bit ugly blow-back pistols up to .45 ACP, but if you drop it from the ISS and send them the melted chunk of metal they'll replace it. Seriously. High end the sky's the limit, but a SIG P250 2-Sum can be had for about $550. This polymer double action auto can be converted from a subcompact to full size in 2 minutes flat using a single serial number. A SIG P226 MK25, a commercial clone of the pistol used by the US Navy SEALs, streets at about $900. Basically, you can get a lot of pistol for under a kilobuck.

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Cmon, a gun is tool just like those other objects shown! If you cannot open a door, shoot the lock off! Need a can of food opened? Shoot that ****! Need to hammer a nail in the wall! Shoot it (just make sure you have good aim). See, a gun was designed for many other purposes other than ending life (both human and animal). Why can't you see that?

And yes, I am being incredibly sarcastic. Anyone who believes that guns exist for any other reason other than to kill are for whatever reason just not facing reality. That is their sole purpose, that is why they exist. When used properly and correctly, they end a life. Whether it is hunting an animal, or protecting yourself from a criminal, the money shot is a kill. Sure, you can have fun shooting at targets, etc., so they have a secondary purpose, but do not kid oneself, they are meant to end life.

I don't completely disagree. But my sole purpose for owning my guns, is for entertainment, a hobby. Just like video games, football, etc. Honestly I never thought I'd go hunting, until a friend took me. I've been twice, it was a rush, but it isn't why I own guns. I don't disagree they were designed for killing, but more often than not, I find the reason my friends own them is just to go to the range and shoot targets or skeet, and with (hopefully) zero intention of ending a life, ever. Which brings me to back to my original point, its the mindset of the wielder, not the weapon of choice. I'm not naive, but I say this: My guns are no different than my gamepad or controller. Entertainment tools, not a weapon, and I hope in my life they never come to be used as such.

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I hope in my life they never come to be used as such.

Me neither. Only things I enjoy killing are paper and watermelons. :laugh:

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I pity that poor child, growing up surrounded by gun-toting rednecks...

Now that's racial profiling sir. For all we know it could be a picture of Europeans, Australians etc if the pic wasn't labelled.

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Now that's racial profiling sir. For all we know it could be a picture of Europeans, Australians etc if the pic wasn't labelled.

It's acceptable since he's anti-gun.

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Where's the fuss? Its just a pic FFS.

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If the barrel is over 16", it has an overall length of 26 inches and it's a semi-automatic it's treated no different than any hunting rifle. SKS, AK, HK - whatever. Machine guns require first that State law permits them. If so you to fill out paper with the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms), go through background checks and pay a $200 tax on each weapon. The same procedure applies to "Destructive Devices" - hand grenades, grenade launchers, missiles with a charge of more than 1/4 oz., bazooka's, bombs, artillery etc.

Just talking new here. For a low end Hi-Point pistol $130 - $200 street. Very basic, not fancy & maybe a bit ugly blow-back pistols up to .45 ACP, but if you drop it from the ISS and send them the melted chunk of metal they'll replace it. Seriously. High end the sky's the limit, but a SIG P250 2-Sum can be had for about $550. This polymer double action auto can be converted from a subcompact to full size in 2 minutes flat using a single serial number. A SIG P226 MK25, a commercial clone of the pistol used by the US Navy SEALs, streets at about $900. Basically, you can get a lot of pistol for under a kilobuck.

wow :o over here handguns are illegal and would cost me 800 (1400 bucks) for a glock if i went around the law... but i can get a used shotgun for 50 quid (80ish bucks) and a new one from 300-1200 including semi auto 5 shot tac ... when i browse CA in april might see if i can get a can and have it waiting for me when i get back....my god i want guns :'(

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