xbl Aww. Microsoft (Xbox Rewards) you shouldn't have.

[Ayepecks]

Point taken thanks for bringing me back down to earth. Nothing new about wearing your heart on your sleeve. I guess it is only such a contentious issue with me because it is on the Xbox platform that you are stating allegiance to Xbox. Anything where a company says it loves you and you go along with the game by endorsing that message to others on your virtual chest just seems..

I should hush my thoughts.

I think you're making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Plus, I don't understand your point. Wearing this shirt proves your allegiance to Microsoft? Uh, I think having an avatar (ergo, having an Xbox) is a bigger sign of support.

I wear shirts of things I like. Companies, bands, sports teams, etc. It's not a big deal.

[Smashing Pumpkin]

You don't understand my point?

What's to not understand. Let's for a minute pretend that we're talking about real, physical clothing. Can you not comprehend anyone having issue with companies using peoples bodies as portable billboards? Further more billboards that proclaim how much they HEART you, they heart your money yeah.

You wear t shirts of things you like. Sports teams, okay yeah, bands, yeah you're showing your support for group of people producing culture, but companies? You wear t shirts of companies you like?

I'm not saying I wasn't making a big deal out of something small, but coming from the guy who posted the article about male privilege I thought you might have a better grasp of wider social issues.

[Charisma Veteran]

Aww, how cute. I'll download mine today :D

[Hedon]

It's a freaking avatar shirt. DANG!

[dvferret]

Got mine. :D

Woo! Got mine as well! :p

[Ayepecks]

You don't understand my point?

What's to not understand. Let's for a minute pretend that we're talking about real, physical clothing. Can you not comprehend anyone having issue with companies using peoples bodies as portable billboards? Further more billboards that proclaim how much they HEART you, they heart your money yeah.

You wear t shirts of things you like. Sports teams, okay yeah, bands, yeah you're showing your support for group of people producing culture, but companies? You wear t shirts of companies you like?

I'm not saying I wasn't making a big deal out of something small, but coming from the guy who posted the article about male privilege I thought you might have a better grasp of wider social issues.

I was being sarcastic. I just disagreed with it and then went on to clarify why. And we're not talking about actual clothing, are we? You're changing into a hypothetical that completely changes the discussion and point you were attempting to make. You might as well start talking about what everyone's favorite food is, because that has about as much relevance as physical clothing does. Because, as I already stated, you're putting a Microsoft shirt on an avatar that's inside of a Microsoft product that you have to use -- so people are already well aware of who Microsoft is. That's like calling the Best Buy logos in Best Buy "billboards" in the context you're using.

But if you insist on changing the subject, then yes, I absolutely wear T-shirts of companies I like. Nike, for instance. I don't mind having "NIKE" emblazoned on my chest. I'm not going to wear a shirt just to wear it, but if it's a good-looking shirt and is reasonably priced, sure, why not? And if Microsoft gave me this avatar shirt in real life, I'd wear it. Why wouldn't I? I don't go out and actively seek shirts for companies I like, since they are rarely decent-looking shirts. But there's nothing wrong with showing support for a company whose product or service offerings you enjoy.

Normally I enjoy your posts, but I have to say, for you to compare wearing a shirt in support of a company to being a societal issue as large as male privilege (and even call it a "wider" societal issue -- WHAAAAAAAAAAAA?!) is absolutely stupid.

[Smashing Pumpkin]

Maybe I am too critical of advertising I was just a little surprised by peoples enthusiasm for what is essentially an advert and it was the love part that for me made it an especially contentious issue.

Whilst users themselves may well be aware of Microsofts existence, I'm hard pushed to think of anyone who uses a computer and does not, this still does not give them free reign to push advertising to people using whatever free space they can find. Avatars are not only on show to the user on their particular console but also to their friends in friend lists and public games such as 1 vs 100 and on numerous websites such as neowin in signatures and the like so its not just an issue of the user who chooses to wear it, and the image of the Xbox logo with the assertion that the company loves you is not contained entirely on the Microsoft platform.

Whilst it is as I admitted a minor example, I have to resent what they have attempted here which is to associate the branding of a home electrical item with love for the consumer.

To suggest that the culture of apparent acceptance of companies being able to plaster their name over all sorts of public space is NOT a wider social issue is in my opinion quite stupid. Its quite easy to track the path of clothing manufacturers logos being at first subtle and almost hidden to their current state as being often the central feature on an item of clothing and better yet the primary motivating factor in thousands of peoples clothing choices. Clothing is of course not the only example, I'm sure you can think of many examples in your day to day life where it can be hard to avoid advertising. That companies have in the past branded entire streets to celebrate the launches of their products is symptomatic of the wider social significence of this issue.

Perhaps you are not one of the people who actively seek out such attire based upon the particular advertisement emblazoned across it but you cannot deny that these people exist. And in my mind it is hard to deny that offering a virtual alternative to this physical example is an extension of this phenomenon. I mean at least a NIKE hoodie can keep you warm, a virtual XBox shirt can't even do that.

[Ayepecks]

Whilst users themselves may well be aware of Microsofts existence, I'm hard pushed to think of anyone who uses a computer and does not, this still does not give them free reign to push advertising to people using whatever free space they can find. Avatars are not only on show to the user on their particular console but also to their friends in friend lists and public games such as 1 vs 100 and on numerous websites such as neowin in signatures and the like so its not just an issue of the user who chooses to wear it, and the image of the Xbox logo with the assertion that the company loves you is not contained entirely on the Microsoft platform.

Whilst it is as I admitted a minor example, I have to resent what they have attempted here which is to associate the branding of a home electrical item with love for the consumer.

I don't even know how to make heads or tails of this. In the situation you're describing, it would be someone's choice to show their avatar off to others which could potentially give Microsoft free publicity, in your mind. Never mind the chances that someone is unaware of what the avatar goes to in the descriptions you've provided. And in the other situations you just stated, it isn't the entire avatar, it's just the username. Look at my Xbox Live avatar to the left. I have a Portal 2 shirt on because I love the game and think the logo looks neat.

Very few T-shirts don't endorse something. Most T-shirts have a logo for some company somewhere on it. Even on most polo shirts, companies place insignia to indicate their brand. And you think them providing an electrical item equates to the love of a consumer? Nowhere is that even remotely implied. This is an avatar item for a loyalty program. You're aware of how loyalty programs work, correct? This is a classic example of something additional being provided to the consumer for their service. Generally these loyalty program items include company branding. It's kind of the point of a loyalty program, ya know?

To suggest that the culture of apparent acceptance of companies being able to plaster their name over all sorts of public space is NOT a wider social issue is in my opinion quite stupid. Its quite easy to track the path of clothing manufacturers logos being at first subtle and almost hidden to their current state as being often the central feature on an item of clothing and better yet the primary motivating factor in thousands of peoples clothing choices. Clothing is of course not the only example, I'm sure you can think of many examples in your day to day life where it can be hard to avoid advertising. That companies have in the past branded entire streets to celebrate the launches of their products is symptomatic of the wider social significence of this issue.

So male privilege is a lesser societal issue? Well that's quite amazing, given that male privilege is inherent, since the position of males in society has a rich history and the fact that the world population is roughly 50% male; advertising, however, is a largely regulated industry. So, yeah, I'm going to stick with my statement that it's incredibly, incredibly, incredibly stupid statement.

Your defense of your statements is also extremely thin. Advertising is bad, so says you. Well, then, go on, explain why advertising is bad. Show me some research to back up these claims. Show me some articles. Hell, show me anything. There's plenty of people who'd agree with you. But at least they have an argument -- you just say it's bad, and that's that.

Perhaps you are not one of the people who actively seek out such attire based upon the particular advertisement emblazoned across it but you cannot deny that these people exist. And in my mind it is hard to deny that offering a virtual alternative to this physical example is an extension of this phenomenon. I mean at least a NIKE hoodie can keep you warm, a virtual XBox shirt can't even do that.

Sure these people exist. But that kind of goes against what I would assume to be your argument. If these people seek out clothing with brand names plastered all over them, that'd imply they're well aware of the actions they're taking. If your argument is that advertising a brand can be seen as a status symbol, then I'd argue there are a million things more likely to show status than a brand image.

Anyway, I'm not going to derail this topic further. Just don't think you have a point at all.

[Smashing Pumpkin]

Likewise no idea where to start.

The avatar t shirt says on it XBox loves you.

And I never even suggested anything about male privilege being a lesser issue.

As for advertising equals bad, I was making the point that when advertising takes over what was previously neutral space and when it appropriates emotions and feelings beyond what is related to its actual products it is bad.

Articles? Go read no logo by Naomi Klein she does a better job than me.

Never mind huh.