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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1331483085' post='594721648'] many usability features Windows tablets have had for years.
[/quote]
Like what?

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[quote name='CJEric' timestamp='1331483287' post='594721660']
Like what?
[/quote]

Pretty much the power of a full OS.
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oh, ok, I thought you meant 'usability' in the way that Wikipedia defines it:

[quote]Usability is the [b]ease of use[/b] and [b]learnability[/b] of a human-made object[/quote]

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[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1331483085' post='594721648']
If you think about it, it makes sense. Apple is tip-toeing around with the iPad, and ignoring many usability features Windows tablets have had for years.
[/quote]
The most important ones IMO, expandability and upgradeability will always be an advantage for Wintel. Built-in obsolescence is Apples #1 guaranteed revenue stream. That's their busines model.

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[quote name='CJEric' timestamp='1331321228' post='594717886']
#7 won't happen. Sinofsky specifically compared their solution to the iPad's folders, and claimed that MS's concept was superior.
[/quote]
For 7 I thought it would have been a good add-on since there are items that people, like myself, like to group, and when you want it, you'll know where to find it very quickly. Hope in a future it is implemented.

[quote name='Stoffel' timestamp='1331321556' post='594717898']
I really like your list and I hope MS does pick some of your ideas, specially the first 6 items on your list.

I think 7 and 8 are just not possible at the moment.
They try to have an app model that works both on Tablets and PC's.
For those tablets it would be very memory and battery consuming if they can have more then 2 apps open at a time.
That's also the reason they have to be full screen, that way they can go in a suspended mode as soon as it disappears from the screen.
If you can resize them they will never go in suspended mode, because they just keep occupying the screen
It would be nice if MS would adjust that problem, but we all have to realize that Win8 is basically a 1.0 version of a new app platform.
Maybe by Win9 they adjust the app model that you can do these things if you are on a PC or laptop.

Further down the list you got a couple of other good ones.

About the apps, we all know they are still in pre BETA stage so we can hope that they will be updated over time, hopefully we see regular updates before it goes into RC

I like that you actually took the time to think about how to make it better, instead of just saying it doesn't work like Win 7 so it s*cks

Nice one
[/quote]
I'm glad you liked my list. I know Metro has a lot of potential inside it, but it still needs to be polished further.

About resizing the metro apps, after rethinking a little I noticed that you indeed have a point, there are tablets in mind and they need to have a comfortable way to suspend the apps (much as iOS does)...
On a much more deep thought, there's no need to run 2 apps per screen (at least I rarely have more than 2 windows displayed at a time in Win7), but I do believe that there should be a possibility to resize their windows to the size you want. There are apps that I would like to make them share 50% - 50% of the screen (and that number will increase when metro productivity apps start to appear).



[quote name='cynthia400' timestamp='1331452550' post='594721008']
You can move multiple items on the Start screen when you have it zoomed out, just grab any section of icons and you will move all the icons that are in that group.
[/quote]
That's not what I'm getting at unfortunately. Imagine that I have them on different groups, and I would like to move the items between other groups (including the original group of that item).

Edit: I know it's there, but in terms of keyboard and mice movements, it can require 4+ key presses to look for something when I don't know what type of file is.

[quote name='MorganX' timestamp='1331455608' post='594721048']
I believe what you're asking for is unified search and I wanted this to. And it is there. Don't use a search hotkey, when the start screen is up, just start typing what you're looking for. It will search everything and display the results. Whether or not what you're looking for will be the first result can't be guaranteed though.
[/quote]
The unified search is what I'm getting at, but not the way Win8 implements it. I would like to[b] have something apart[/b] from the new search Win8 has; more like Vista and 7 in which you'll type and the first thing that appeared would be focused and just need an Enter to run it. Please note that I don't want to make the new search disappear, but [b]a new option [/b]which includes "All files, apps, and settings"

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Posted

Sadly, Metro contains the seeds of it's own destruction.

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[quote name='Hitman2000' timestamp='1331452875' post='594721014']
The one thing i dont understand is why microsoft is trying this one size fits all crap.

why don't they just develop a seperate OS marketed specifically for tablets/moible devices...
[/quote]
Probably bc MSFT foresees increasing demand for not only tablets, but also crossover devices that straddle the line between PC and tablet. To add to your point, however, I don't agree with their current line of thinking. There needs to be some set of options that allow users to shift the OS from being more tablet oriented to more desktop oriented, which is pretty obvious from the varied responses here.

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Posted

[quote name='Brian Miller' timestamp='1331513467' post='594722538']
Sadly, Metro contains the seeds of it's own destruction.
[/quote]

Metro never had a future. I am very interested to see if Windows Phone and Windows 8 Tablets will gain any significant Market Share. It is on my watch list. If new Windows 8 Phone and Windows 8 Tablet do not gain anything, MS will most likely kill Metro and try something new.

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Posted

[quote name='techguy77' timestamp='1331573203' post='594724046']
I am very interested to see if Windows Phone and Windows 8 Tablets will gain any significant Market Share. It is on my watch list. If new Windows 8 Phone and Windows 8 Tablet do not gain anything, MS will most likely kill Metro and try something new.
[/quote]
I'm pretty interested in this as well. I think MSFT are starting to put the pieces together. The Silverlight framework of WP7 is so restrictive for app development that the platform was basically doomed from the start. This time around, they are offering developers more control with native code support. While it remains to be seen how much of the metal will be exposed through APIs, it appears that it will finally be possible to create WinPhone apps on the level of those that are available for iOS. In addition, the phones will [b]finally[/b] be suitable for business use, and there will be some level of interoperability with Win8. Translating this new potential into sales will be the biggest hurdle, and I imagine they'll have to dump tons of cash into marketing and partner deals.

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Posted

Metro-ized Explorer was one of the first things I thought would be a good idea.

It's hard to suggest they add features that may well be addressed by more Metro apps being created/improved or more content. the Kinect Gestures idea I think is a given, there is no way they won't have support for that by RTM.

I'm also not sure of the best way to approach a multi-monitor setup going forward from the Consumer Preview. I don't use more than 1, but in screenshots and feedback I've read.. the implementation seems a bit ignorant of the mult-monitor crowd.

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Posted

Another additions:[list=1]
[*]Make the video app run different type of videos other than .Microsoft's. After you install a codec pack, all videos start to work. Why don't have an option for adding matroska or other type of videos?
[*]On the start screen, make available an option (at least reg hack) that allows more rows of tiles and items on the start screen. When you have little res. one feels like there's a lot of space being wasted.(This could be done in DP)
[*]Have a quick alternative to manipulate and kill the Start Screen in case of a crash. It has happened me thrice, and I was forced to shut down the computer because the usual key combinations (For launching Task manager,etc.) did not work at all.
[*]Click and drag. Although I'm not sure if this was a good idea, the first thing you try to do when you browse the metro screen is to click on the mouse and drag it so it can scroll; make it happen. (Though I don't know how it will impact on the OS' fluidity)
[*]Make search for folders an option in the start screen. Can't find how but it doesn't seem that the Start Screen find folders at all.
[*]Allow a theme configuration for the Start Screen including metro apps. This is much like the Xbox Theme system which decorates the whole ecosystem with different backgrounds. This could be a great addition since Windows 7 already support theme packs. Imagine to have different backgrounds for the store, music, and video apps. (But please, make it easily customizable) This can be achieved through a hack, though.
[*]Make all items expandable, independently they are metro apps or not. Installed Windows programs such as office suite, firefox, opera, adobe suite, etc. have a square icon and can't be expanded. In several cases it would be great to allow expansion of those.
[*]Add tracking of data usage to wired connections. For people using wired connections a data usage tracking system such as the Wireless ones would be great.
[/list]

If I think of any other addition I'll gladly post them all over.

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Posted

[quote name='Salutary7' timestamp='1331584233' post='594724480']

I'm pretty interested in this as well. I think MSFT are starting to put the pieces together. The Silverlight framework of WP7 is so restrictive for app development that the platform was basically doomed from the start. This time around, they are offering developers more control with native code support. While it remains to be seen how much of the metal will be exposed through APIs, it appears that it will finally be possible to create WinPhone apps on the level of those that are available for iOS. In addition, the phones will [b]finally[/b] be suitable for business use, and there will be some level of interoperability with Win8. Translating this new potential into sales will be the biggest hurdle, and I imagine they'll have to dump tons of cash into marketing and partner deals.
[/quote]

They used silverlight and xna for windows phone because they knew they would be changing the kernel for Windows Phone 8, and keeping everything in managed code would allow them to maintain full backwards compatibility when they make that switch

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Posted

Nice lists Jose, lots of constructive suggestions :)

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[quote name='migo' timestamp='1331906857' post='594735056']
They used silverlight and xna for windows phone because they knew they would be changing the kernel for Windows Phone 8, and keeping everything in managed code would allow them to maintain full backwards compatibility when they make that switch
[/quote]
There's not really any technical reason it had to be Silverlight (a gimped version of it to boot). Besides, if they cared at all about backwards compatibility, they wouldn't have completely abandoned their Windows Mobile customers, who still had a big share of the smartphone market. They did, however, realize the need to be relevant in the social space [i]after[/i] Apple's success. So they basically designed a new platform ASAP, making use of existing tools. It doesn't compare to the Microsoft Kin, which cost $1 billion to develop and was discontinued after about 2 months, but it definitely wasn't the best strategy either. Their current market share illustrates this.

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Posted

[quote name='Salutary7' timestamp='1331912183' post='594735348']
There's not really any technical reason it had to be Silverlight (a gimped version of it to boot).
[/quote]

If you wanna talk about a gimped version of Silverlight, go look at WinRT's XAML model - it's ridiculous. Okay, Silverlight was a gimped down WPF, but fair enough Silverlight was designed as a web plugin, not a full desktop application framework. WinRT however is designed to BE a desktop framework, and yet instead of adding useful things, it manages to pull even more out of Silverlight's XAML model. We don't even have RadialGradientBrushes anymore, you can't render a XAML element to a bitmap, NavigationFrames can only hold a instance of a page class, no Pixel shaders etc etc. And then a whole bunch of daft changes elsewhere too, like the removal of the System.Data namespace, meaning no built-in database support - which is one the silliest decisions they've made in a while.

Of course, it's obvious why they used Silverlight in WP7. Why wouldn't they? It's their technology and it's great, they had no need to invent a new wheel :p

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Posted



[quote name='Salutary7' timestamp='1331912183' post='594735348']

There's not really any technical reason it had to be Silverlight (a gimped version of it to boot). Besides, if they cared at all about backwards compatibility, they wouldn't have completely abandoned their Windows Mobile customers, who still had a big share of the smartphone market. They did, however, realize the need to be relevant in the social space [i]after[/i] Apple's success. So they basically designed a new platform ASAP, making use of existing tools. It doesn't compare to the Microsoft Kin, which cost $1 billion to develop and was discontinued after about 2 months, but it definitely wasn't the best strategy either. Their current market share illustrates this.
[/quote]

Windows Mobile compatibility wasn't possible while fixing the problems it had in Windows Phone. The thing they really couldn't do is break backwards compatibility twice.

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Posted

[quote name='MorganX' timestamp='1331494430' post='594722098']
The most important ones IMO, expandability and upgradeability will always be an advantage for Wintel. Built-in obsolescence is Apples #1 guaranteed revenue stream. That's their busines model.
[/quote]

This is the biggest reason I cannot buy into Apple. I have very little money as it is, and the last time I spent money on a computer, I made myself a custom gaming rig, that 4 years later, can still play a mean game of Battlefield. The catch? I only spent $600 on the hardware, and It's still going strong, able to run the latest software and games.
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Posted

[quote name='Jose_49' timestamp='1331898126' post='594734802']
Another additions:[list=1]
[*]Make the video app run different type of videos other than .Microsoft's. After you install a codec pack, all videos start to work. Why don't have an option for adding matroska or other type of videos?
[*]On the start screen, make available an option (at least reg hack) that allows more rows of tiles and items on the start screen. When you have little res. one feels like there's a lot of space being wasted.(This could be done in DP)
[*]Have a quick alternative to manipulate and kill the Start Screen in case of a crash. It has happened me thrice, and I was forced to shut down the computer because the usual key combinations (For launching Task manager,etc.) did not work at all.
[*]Click and drag. Although I'm not sure if this was a good idea, the first thing you try to do when you browse the metro screen is to click on the mouse and drag it so it can scroll; make it happen. (Though I don't know how it will impact on the OS' fluidity)
[*]Make search for folders an option in the start screen. Can't find how but it doesn't seem that the Start Screen find folders at all.
[*]Allow a theme configuration for the Start Screen including metro apps. This is much like the Xbox Theme system which decorates the whole ecosystem with different backgrounds. This could be a great addition since Windows 7 already support theme packs. Imagine to have different backgrounds for the store, music, and video apps. (But please, make it easily customizable) This can be achieved through a hack, though.
[*]Make all items expandable, independently they are metro apps or not. Installed Windows programs such as office suite, firefox, opera, adobe suite, etc. have a square icon and can't be expanded. In several cases it would be great to allow expansion of those.
[*]Add tracking of data usage to wired connections. For people using wired connections a data usage tracking system such as the Wireless ones would be great.
[/list]

If I think of any other addition I'll gladly post them all over.
[/quote]
1. Microsoft won't pay licence for your pirated movies.
2. It's already possible, bing it!
3. Start screen shouldn't crash :p
4. It's crap. Use the mouse wheel instead.Or the lower bar near the edge.
5.Right.
6. It's already here in the option.
7. Sounds like a waste of space. Metro apps can be enlarged in order to show more infos on the live tile. Classical desktop apps don't provide live tile.
8. Right.

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Posted

[quote name='Dot Matrix' timestamp='1331929332' post='594736068']


This is the biggest reason I cannot buy into Apple. I have very little money as it is, and the last time I spent money on a computer, I made myself a custom gaming rig, that 4 years later, can still play a mean game of Battlefield. The catch? I only spent $600 on the hardware, and It's still going strong, able to run the latest software and games.
[/quote]

Fortunately, more recent Macs can have Windows installed on them to extend their life. But iOS - I bought an iPos touch a couple years ago, and it's useless now. Apple forces OS upgrades on you but doesn't ensure they work smoothly on your hardware, and then cripples support if you can't upgrade. At least Android you keep the functionality you always had, with iOS it gets worse.

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Posted

[quote name='Pygmy_Hippo' timestamp='1331912034' post='594735336']
Nice lists Jose, lots of constructive suggestions :)
[/quote]
Thanks (Y)
[quote name='Anthonyd' timestamp='1331929620' post='594736078']
1. Microsoft won't pay licence for your pirated movies.
2. It's already possible, bing it!
3. Start screen shouldn't crash :p
4. It's crap. Use the mouse wheel instead.Or the lower bar near the edge.
5.Right.
6. It's already here in the option.
7. Sounds like a waste of space. Metro apps can be enlarged in order to show more infos on the live tile. Classical desktop apps don't provide live tile.
8. Right.
[/quote]
#1. :p., I'm not saying they should include a codec, but they should make an Open File function and try to see if it playbacks. If Windows Media Player can do it, why it can't?
#2. You're right, already did it!
#3. It has happened me and it's awful :(. (I get what your point is ;) )
#6. Not in the way I'm thinking of. You can only customize the Start Screen with minimal but great touches, but not the Store, Video, etc. apps without an XML hack.
I'm more into a whole theme feature, like the 360, in which different wallpapers are displayed depending on what you are currently at: Searching, Home, Videos, etc.

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Posted

[quote name='Jose_49' timestamp='1332127429' post='594740726']
Thanks (Y)

#1. :p., I'm not saying they should include a codec, but they should make an Open File function and try to see if it playbacks. If Windows Media Player can do it, why it can't?
#2. You're right, already did it!
#3. It has happened me and it's awful :(. (I get what your point is ;) )
#6. Not in the way I'm thinking of. You can only customize the Start Screen with minimal but great touches, but not the Store, Video, etc. apps without an XML hack.
I'm more into a whole theme feature, like the 360, in which different wallpapers are displayed depending on what you are currently at: Searching, Home, Videos, etc.
[/quote]
#1 : I don't get it. WMP can play *.mkv files if you don't install any codec?

#6 I don't see why you want to customize (system) apps. It wasn't a problem until here. The accent colors are supposed to bring the little touch that you are looking for. If you pick "blue" for example, then application can automatically detect it and use "blue" color instead of a color chosed by the developer of the application.

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[quote name='Anthonyd' timestamp='1332159912' post='594741376']
#1 : I don't get it. WMP can play *.mkv files if you don't install any codec?

#6 I don't see why you want to customize (system) apps. It wasn't a problem until here. The accent colors are supposed to bring the little touch that you are looking for. If you pick "blue" for example, then application can automatically detect it and use "blue" color instead of a color chosed by the developer of the application.
[/quote]
Sorry I wasn't clear. It's as you say, it needs a codec pack. But what I am getting at is that even though WMP does not have native support, after a codec install it can playback other type of files than the default ones: rmvb, mkv, etc. + 10-bit.

And for number 6 I'm talking about the background, it should display a texture or a wallpaper, instead that plain white (in case of Store, Music, and Video)

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Posted

It is something of a pity that Windows 8 is going more the WP direction than the Xbox direction. I'd also like to see the hubs integrated into Windows 8 (which I suppose will come later once the apps are more mature).

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[quote name='Jose_49' timestamp='1332160784' post='594741398']
Sorry I wasn't clear. It's as you say, it needs a codec pack. But what I am getting at is that even though WMP does not have native support, after a codec install it can playback other type of files than the default ones: rmvb, mkv, etc. + 10-bit.

And for number 6 I'm talking about the background, it should display a texture or a wallpaper, instead that plain white (in case of Store, Music, and Video)
[/quote]
1/ Metro apps are sandboxed, so I think this is why it's not working. (And if so, it will never work).

2/ Music & Video aren't using plain white. And you should get used to those kind of background, that's how metro is!

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[quote name='Anthonyd' timestamp='1332166449' post='594741552']
1/ Metro apps are sandboxed, so I think this is why it's not working. (And if so, it will never work).

2/ Music & Video aren't using plain white. And you should get used to those kind of background, that's how metro is!
[/quote]

Which means pretty useless which people should uninstall and use real player VLC or WMP with Codecs.

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