74 replies to this topic 11 votes

[ffMathy]

Please, every Windows 8 hater - read this carefully. I'm not justifying anything, I just think my input may help you realize the beauty of this change.

Why no regular start menu while browsing Metro?
I for one like Metro for my desktop PC. I love the fact that the desktop is now a "box" that runs inside a fluid environment. I also like the concept of the immersiveness and the chromeless interfaces instead of having a taskbar being there.

Also, applications can use toast notifications to notify when things are done, or something requires attention - globally. There's no longer need for individual applications such as Skype and Messenger to use their own notification types, and these notifications will be able to be turned off at one central location - the control panel. This theoretically elliminates the need for the cool Windows 7 progress bar indicators in the task bar. While not offering itself as an alternative, it is indeed a nice complementary feature.

Metro for desktop computers
I don't see how Metro is not good for desktops actually - please help me understand. I've read most complaints entirely, and I still don't understand. You move your mouse to the lower-left screen, and voila - there's your start menu.

Finding apps has never been easier - do a search while in the Metro menu.

Don't want Windows 8 to start up in Metro? Turn it off. I like when my PC starts up in Metro, because then my PC isn't spending 99% of its resources on launching all kinds of apps in the background, when I know exactly what I want.

For instance, if I want to start Visual Studio to do programming as the first thing I do, I click my pinned Visual Studio icon on the Metro screen. It takes me to the desktop, and starts loading the application - even with full priority (allowing it to be priored over all the other program processes while it starts up).

I get the idea that people want some kind of "Default" state that their PC is in, but really, I believe people have become way too used to the old "inside the box"-way of thinking. Let's face it. You start up your PC anyway, and you always start out by launching 1 single app to do your primary purpose, isn't that right? You never start out by launching 20 apps at a time. These will be started automatically for you.

Turning your computer off is harder - or is it?
For those having issues finding the power button I can only ask "really?". Pressing your power button on the computer itself will shut down your PC as default in Windows 8, so why bother anyway? Isn't it more natural to hit the power button to turn something off? They just removed the noise that we thought was needed for centuries. If you're not happy with that, you can configure what happens when clicking the power button.

If you're on a desktop, hitting "Windows + I" to launch the menu for shutting down your PC isn't that hard either, although, less intuitive. In this scenario I agree, if your power button is physically too far away from you.

Normal applications will be offered through the marketplace as well as Metro apps, so the app-store is still going to be awesome.

Why Metro as it is now?
As a developer, I see clearly what Microsoft is doing here. The following is based on knowledge within the field, and common sense. However, some of it is based on beliefs and assumptions.

• Microsoft will make Windows Phone 7 apps compatible with Windows 8. When these apps run, they will run in the docked mode (left or right) always for compatibility reasons, since that'll match the proper phone aspect ratio.
  
• Windows 8 apps that are compatible with the docked (left or right) app format will run in that mode always when running in Windows Phone 8.

Scaling is no problem, since Silverlight (or WPF for that matter) is resolution independent, and uses vector graphics. Hence a much higher compatibility with larger screens.



I will keep this post updated with new points of view as replies arrive - please read the post carefully before you reply!

[br0adband]

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

If you're on a desktop, hitting "Windows + I" to launch the menu for shutting down your PC isn't that hard either, although, less intuitive. In this scenario I agree, if your power button is physically too far away from you.

Win+C is much more efficient and specifically designed to pull up the "C"harms. I restart/shutdown using Win+C every time and it's second nature now, was after 10 minutes.

You make good points and some that don't really matter at all - this is a preview and things will change between now and a potential RC build as well as the RTM which should be this year at some point. They have a long way to go.

Best thing I can say: people need to get over the whole Metro thing, really. It's there, use it, don't use it. I can sit here and use my machine for hours and hours and hours and never once see the Start screen at all - not one time. I start up the apps I normally keep open by their Taskbar buttons/shortcuts and that's it - I have no reason to see the Start screen and on the very rare times that I hit just the Windows key itself I type what I'm looking for and hit Enter so fast it's a non-issue, that means the Start screen is irrelevant in the big picture for those of us that continue to use Desktop "mode" since Metro apps are so few and useful at this point.

People don't like change, but they adapt in time.

[V23]

br0adband, on 14 March 2012 - 00:32, said:

Win+C is much more efficient and specifically designed to pull up the "C"harms. I restart/shutdown using Win+C every time and it's second nature now, was after 10 minutes.

Win+I requires one less click to shut down compared to Win+C.

[Tweaky Nippleton]

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

...every Windows 8 hater...

I stopped reading, and and taking this opinion seriously, here. Disliking one feature in a desktop environment doesn't mean people hate the whole OS and you'd know that if you actually read what people were saying, so given your opening and request that people read your post before replying, I'd say that qualifies you as a hypocrite. Good Day.

[Raa]

Tweaky Nippleton, on 14 March 2012 - 00:55, said:

Disliking one feature in a desktop environment doesn't mean people hate the whole OS

QFT. That's exactly how I read into it. I don't like Metro, but i'm not a Windows 8 hater...

[Syanide]

Oh boy.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Please, every Windows 8 hater - read this carefully. I'm not justifying anything, I just think my input may help you realize the beauty of this change.

Haytazzz!

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Why no regular start menu while browsing Metro?
I for one like Metro for my desktop PC. I love the fact that the desktop is now a "box" that runs inside a fluid environment. I also like the concept of the immersiveness and the chromeless interfaces instead of having a taskbar being there.

I'm glad for you. But how is you liking it proving anything?

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Also, applications can use toast notifications to notify when things are done, or something requires attention - globally. There's no longer need for individual applications such as Skype and Messenger to use their own notification types, and these notifications will be able to be turned off at one central location - the control panel. This theoretically elliminates the need for the cool Windows 7 progress bar indicators in the task bar. While not offering itself as an alternative, it is indeed a nice complementary feature.

Notifications are awful as they're too easy to miss. Look at same thing in upcoming OS X or how it's been for a few years in Ubuntu -- there are notification counters and you can see what you've missed. And "theoretically," they don't replace progress bars as they're not visible at all times (but not much is anyway in Metro).

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Metro for desktop computers
I don't see how Metro is not good for desktops actually - please help me understand. I've read most complaints entirely, and I still don't understand. You move your mouse to the lower-left screen, and voila - there's your start menu.

And I just click the start menu, and, voila, there's my start menu. Actually, what you've mentioned is exactly one of the things that's wrong -- everything's hidden. From the clock to any taskbar indicator. Everything.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Finding apps has never been easier - do a search while in the Metro menu.

...or in the start menu. Plus you can still view your open app, no need to change views, like you have to to achieve anything in Metro!

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Don't want Windows 8 to start up in Metro? Turn it off. I like when my PC starts up in Metro, because then my PC isn't spending 99% of its resources on launching all kinds of apps in the background, when I know exactly what I want.

You can't turn it off, at least not by a Microsoft sanctioned way. Btw, Metro still loads the desktop, so your argument's invalid.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

For instance, if I want to start Visual Studio to do programming as the first thing I do, I click my pinned Visual Studio icon on the Metro screen. It takes me to the desktop, and starts loading the application - even with full priority (allowing it to be priored over all the other program processes while it starts up).

Not sure what this is supposed to mean? I can also click on an icon in the superbar, plus I don't have to confused by a gazillion animated tiles.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

I get the idea that people want some kind of "Default" state that their PC is in, but really, I believe people have become way too used to the old "inside the box"-way of thinking. Let's face it. You start up your PC anyway, and you always start out by launching 1 single app to do your primary purpose, isn't that right? You never start out by launching 20 apps at a time. These will be started automatically for you.

Purely subjective, but I start the browser, email client, twitter app and possibly the music player the moment I sit in front of my computer. Later I add the programs I work in.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Turning your computer off is harder - or is it?

Yes, it is.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

For those having issues finding the power button I can only ask "really?". Pressing your power button on the computer itself will shut down your PC as default in Windows 8, so why bother anyway? Isn't it more natural to hit the power button to turn something off? They just removed the noise that we thought was needed for centuries. If you're not happy with that, you can configure what happens when clicking the power button.

Haha, are you high? "They just removed the noise that we thought was needed for centuries." Yeah, that pesky shut down button has been a rock in our shoes for centuries.

Second part I'll post later as there are too many quote tags to fit in one post.

[rajputwarrior]

Please, every microsoft fanboy, get off the asses of people who don't share the same opinion of you concerning windows 8.

[Syanide]

Second part.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

If you're on a desktop, hitting "Windows + I" to launch the menu for shutting down your PC isn't that hard either, although, less intuitive. In this scenario I agree, if your power button is physically too far away from you.

Haha, I never used this shortcut.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Normal applications will be offered through the marketplace as well as Metro apps, so the app-store is still going to be awesome.

Could agree with this, except it looks like crap.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Why Metro as it is now?
As a developer, I see clearly what Microsoft is doing here. The following is based on knowledge within the field, and common sense. However, some of it is based on beliefs and assumptions.

Microsoft will make Windows Phone 7 apps compatible with Windows 8. When these apps run, they will run in the docked mode (left or right) always for compatibility reasons, since that'll match the proper phone aspect ratio.
Windows 8 apps that are compatible with the docked (left or right) app format will run in that mode always when running in Windows Phone 8.

Scaling is no problem, since Silverlight (or WPF for that matter) is resolution independent, and uses vector graphics. Hence a much higher compatibility with larger screens.

Okay, have nothing to say about this one.

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

I will keep this post updated with new points of view as replies arrive - please read the post carefully before you reply!

Can't wait!

Yeah, I was bored.

[trag3dy]

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

snip

If you buy me a copy of Windows 8 when it is released then I will use metro. Until then, please don't tell me what to do.

Also, we're supposed to take your opinion as fact and just agree with you? Well I see the light now! The metro start screen is the super duper!

[omgben]

ffMathy, on 13 March 2012 - 23:25, said:

Why no regular start menu while browsing Metro?
I for one like Metro for my desktop PC. I love the fact that the desktop is now a "box" that runs inside a fluid environment. I also like the concept of the immersiveness and the chromeless interfaces instead of having a taskbar being there.

Also, applications can use toast notifications to notify when things are done, or something requires attention - globally. There's no longer need for individual applications such as Skype and Messenger to use their own notification types, and these notifications will be able to be turned off at one central location - the control panel. This theoretically elliminates the need for the cool Windows 7 progress bar indicators in the task bar. While not offering itself as an alternative, it is indeed a nice complementary feature.

Oh, you mean like Growl? Cool!

Quote

Turning your computer off is harder - or is it?
For those having issues finding the power button I can only ask "really?". Pressing your power button on the computer itself will shut down your PC as default in Windows 8, so why bother anyway? Isn't it more natural to hit the power button to turn something off? They just removed the noise that we thought was needed for centuries. If you're not happy with that, you can configure what happens when clicking the power button.

For the past 17 years, what have the masses been groomed to do?

A: The power button is off limits and that they should shut down through Windows. So that's what they think they're going to have to do with Windows 8.

[br0adband]

V23, on 14 March 2012 - 00:45, said:

Win+I requires one less click to shut down compared to Win+C.

Perhaps, but with Win+C I can do that with two fingers in a split second whereas even my large hand and fairly wide finger-reach can't do Win+I with the left hand - and that means you're using two hands to get Win+I so...

Win+C is still more efficient overall.

[DARKFiB3R]

br0adband, on 14 March 2012 - 01:24, said:

Perhaps, but with Win+C I can do that with two fingers in a split second whereas even my large hand and fairly wide finger-reach can't do Win+I with the left hand - and that means you're using two hands to get Win+I so... Win+C is still more efficient overall.

You either have tiny little girl hands, or a gigantic keyboard.

[Skyfrog]

trag3dy, on 14 March 2012 - 01:02, said:

If you buy me a copy of Windows 8 when it is released then I will use metro.

I wouldn't use it if someone did buy me a copy.

[ffMathy]

Tweaky Nippleton, on 14 March 2012 - 00:55, said:

I stopped reading, and and taking this opinion seriously, here. Disliking one feature in a desktop environment doesn't mean people hate the whole OS and you'd know that if you actually read what people were saying, so given your opening and request that people read your post before replying, I'd say that qualifies you as a hypocrite. Good Day.

Did I ever state that? I realize my statement might have been harsh, but I had no bad intentions regarding this statement at all. I'm sorry if it came out that way. A guy that hates or doesn't like Windows 8 is a Windows hater, although the word "hater" might sound offensive. I should have used the term "Critics" instead probably. If you don't hate Windows 8 but only parts of Windows 8, then I'd say you are still hating it. I didn't mean to say that you hate in general, but just that you hate Windows 8 or parts of it.

[rajputwarrior]

ffMathy, on 14 March 2012 - 01:44, said:

Did I ever state that? I realize my statement might have been harsh, but I had no bad intentions regarding this statement at all. I'm sorry if it came out that way. A guy that hates or doesn't like Windows 8 is a Windows hater, although the word "hater" might sound offensive. I should have used the term "Critics" instead probably. If you don't hate Windows 8 but only parts of Windows 8, then I'd say you are still hating it. I didn't mean to say that you hate in general, but just that you hate Windows 8 or parts of it.

so the only way to like a product is to be it's fanboy?