DocM Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Doen't change the testimony of the witness either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depicus Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Trayvon was a good kid who got good grades, who wouldn't want their son to be like that. Kids with bad grades aren't all criminals and kids with good grades can still break the law and get into trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nominak Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Doen't change the testimony of the witness either. One witness against how many other witnesses? Have the police released images of Zimmerman being injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growled Member Posted March 24, 2012 Member Share Posted March 24, 2012 I sure am glad Obama doesn't have a son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslag Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 And you would be wrong. BOTH of them had a responsibility to break off the confrontation. If the Zimmerman (btw: he's Hispanic) cut off following the kid, turned back and was then attacked, grounded, and bloodied and a witness bears that out then he was no longer the aggressor but a victim. In that case self-defense attaches to Zimmerman, not the kid. And the reports also say Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend who said someone was following him and he was trying to evade him. At some point Zimmerman caught up with him, against the wishes of the police, and confronted Trayvon. I dont believe there is a disagreement that there was a confrontation between the two but clearly Zimmerman is responsible as Trayvon was trying to avoid Zimmerman. If Zimmerman stopped chasing, Trayvon would have kept going, again cause he was evading Zimmerman. blank 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 One witness against how many other witnesses? Zero. Others heard the screams for help, which were also heard on the 911 call, but this is the only one close enough to see who was doing what and who was getting beaten up - Zimmerman. The two had contrasting colors of tops. dark and red, so the ID seems pretty firm. Have the police released images of Zimmerman being injured? Can't do that during an open investigation. Here releasing such direct evidence is presumed to have a prejudicial effect on the potential jury pool - which is any adult in the jurisdiction or any jurisdiction a trial could be moved to (a 'Change of Venue'). With the Feds potentially involved that's the entire US. A member of the City Council will be on a legal affairs program tonight, and from the sounds of it this new info is going to be a major item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 again you are going from testimony form one individual that doesn't want to be named, and came out after all this time. Against many others who told the story that day.... This witness came forth day one - he made the closest 911 call and is one reason the police didn't charge Zimmerman. He is not required to make his witness public until; an arraignment hearing or trial. He only came public using only his first name, and that may be a pseudonym, so it's not likely a publicity thing. Why can't it just be what it is? Why must you paint the black kid out to be a bad person? We don't yet know what it is. You can presume to know what it is, but in the face of this witness you may well be wrong. We all may be wrong - this could well be two runaway trains colliding. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nominak Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 This witness came forth day one - he made the closest 911 call and is one reason the police didn't charge Zimmerman. He is not required to make his witness public until; an arraignment hearing or trial. He only came public using only his first name, and that may be a pseudonym, so it's not likely a publicity thing. We don't yet know what it is. You can presume to know what it is, but in the face of this witness you may well be wrong. We all may be wrong - this could well be two runaway trains colliding. Time will tell. When you've got zimmerman on tape saying he's going to follow martin, and the police tell him not to, and you hear zimmerman spout racist remarks such as "these a-holes always get away".. or "f***ing coons". I'd say it's pretty easy to tell what happened and why. blank 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depicus Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 This kid didnt have a criminal record. try again. Or just let it go and move on. Accept it for what it is. My point, that you failed to get, is that saying kids have good grades and no criminal record doesn't mean they have never committed an offence or do bad things, in the same way that just because you are black or uneducated means you must be a criminal. I think most people call it stereotyping and it works both ways. Now I have no idea what happened as I don't have enough information to make an informed decision, my initial reaction is that he was the victim but this is an uninformed opinion based on what I know so I won't profess to know exactly what went on that night. It may well be that you have more facts than I do but you don't seem to be putting that across very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted March 24, 2012 Subscriber² Share Posted March 24, 2012 off topic I sure am glad Obama doesn't have a son. Growled, I am surprised to read such a statement from you of all people. You generally seem to be fair about your observations, but not this time. I haven't found a thing to suggest that Pres. Obama has been anything but a very good parent. (if that was your point) On topic Until more information is released by the authorities NO ONE knows all of the facts in this case and if people are taking sides at this point in time, well just wow. There's too much hype and fiction being spread to come to any conclusions. IMO blank and The Evil Overlord 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User6060 Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 how is that you can take sides when a kid got murdered....its like some of you are standing up for zimmerman because you believe him to be the same political affiliation....he is a murderer and that is a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 When you've got zimmerman on tape saying he's going to follow martin, and the police tell him not to, and you hear zimmerman spout racist remarks such as "these a-holes always get away".. or "f***ing coons". I'd say it's pretty easy to tell what happened and why. No, it isn't. Being a racist isn't usually a crime, and just because someone spouts a racially charged comment doesn't make them ineligible to be a victim. All that matters is if Zimmerman had retreated back near his SUV, meaning he had broken off his pursuit. If he had and the kid attacked him at that point after crossing some distance between them what happened before is much less important because the kid is now the aggressor. its like some of you are standing up for zimmerman because you believe him to be the same political affiliation....he is a murderer and that is a fact No, it's an assumption. Please take a class in logic. Most non-Cuban Hispanics are not conservatives so I seriously doubt his politics and mine are in synch. Also- check my first post on this and you'll see that I was ready to hang him out to dry too, but then this funny thing called evidence got in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslag Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 On topic Until more information is released by the authorities NO ONE knows all of the facts in this case and if people are taking sides at this point in time, well just wow. There's too much hype and fiction being spread to come to any conclusions. IMO All the facts? No BUT there are plenty of facts that people do know. Such as Zimmerman chasing down a kid after being told by the police not to. We know Zimmerman shot this kid, even though the kid was not a threat to him or anyone else, we also know Zimmerman chased him down in his car to catch up to him. We know the kid was trying to get away from him. We know Zimmerman shot and killed the kid after confronting him. So it's not hard to see the picture laid out with what we do know to see what side was in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslag Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 No, it isn't. Being a racist isn't usually a crime, and just because someone spouts a racially charged comment doesn't make them ineligible to be a victim. All that matters is if Zimmerman had retreated back near his SUV, meaning he had broken off his pursuit. If he had and the kid attacked him at that point after crossing some distance between them what happened before is much less important because the kid is now the aggressor. Nonsense, Zimmerman was told not to chase him down and he drove to catch up to him. That's extremely important to case at hand. Chances are the kid became aggressive once Zimmerman caught up to him fearing for his own safety. I know if I felt like I was being chased and someone drove up on me and I felt I couldnt get away I too would start acting aggressively for my own protection. Any way you look at this with what is already known, Zimmerman is the responsible one here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 All the facts? No BUT.....So it's not hard to see the picture laid out with what we do know to see what side was in the wrong. Which totally ignores what the eyewitness said. This one isn't as obvious as it looks, so chill with the lynch mob. Any way you look at this with what is already known, Zimmerman is the responsible one here. Only if he didn't retreat. If he did and the kid turned and pursued Zimmerman then it's a far different story and the responsibility flips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nominak Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Nonsense, Zimmerman was told not to chase him down and he drove to catch up to him. That's extremely important to case at hand. Chances are the kid became aggressive once Zimmerman caught up to him fearing for his own safety. I know if I felt like I was being chased and someone drove up on me and I felt I couldnt get away I too would start acting aggressively for my own protection. Any way you look at this with what is already known, Zimmerman is the responsible one here. Hard to take someone seriously when they act the way they do. Zimmerman is guilty. Hands down. blank 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Raze Subscriber² Posted March 24, 2012 Subscriber² Share Posted March 24, 2012 Nonsense, Zimmerman was told not to chase him down and he drove to catch up to him. That's extremely important to case at hand. Chances are the kid became aggressive once Zimmerman caught up to him fearing for his own safety. I know if I felt like I was being chased and someone drove up on me and I felt I couldnt get away I too would start acting aggressively for my own protection. Any way you look at this with what is already known, Zimmerman is the responsible one here. As I said we do not have all the facts and saying "chances are" is very subjective. I'm not defending anyone in this case, Zimmerman or Martin so back off on the the "facts" as you want to interpret them. You're providing a lot of your own speculation. The Evil Overlord 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslag Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Which totally ignores what the eyewitness said. This one isn't as obvious as it looks, so chill with the lynch mob. Only if he didn't retreat. If he did and the kid turned and pursued Zimmerman then it's a far different story and the responsibility flips. The news keeps reporting that there were no direct witness to the exact event that led up to the shooting. It doesnt matter if the kid ended up on top for even a moment. Zimmerman chased down and confronted the kid, that is a fact. If there is a conclusion to be made from that, its the kid ended up defending himself. The story does no flip because of that. As I said we do not have all the facts and saying "chances are" is very subjective. I'm not defending anyone in this case, Zimmerman or Martin so back off on the the "facts" as you want to interpret them. You're providing a lot of your own speculation. Where I say "Chances are" is the only subjective point. Everything else I said matches up with what everyone else agrees with as facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslag Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 When someone is the aggressor and then claims to be the victim, they are still no less the initial aggressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrchetsteadman Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 That's all politics is though. Making mountains out of mole hills. Nothing is ever really accomplished anymore. Done, end topic, board and everything else. I'm sick of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The news keeps reporting that there were no direct witness to the exact event that led up to the shooting. The report I posted is news, and since it just broke late this afternoon and it's a weekend (slower news cycle) that's no surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nominak Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 The report I posted is news, and since it just broke late this afternoon and it's a weekend (slower news cycle) that's no surprise. You're gonna tell me it took 1 month before an "eye witness" spoke up? Or before anyone knew of said eye witness? HAH. Bull-effing-**** blank 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrchetsteadman Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Are people really trying to defend Zimmerman? He has a history of frivolous calls to 911 http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html Didn't stand down when the cops asked him to so anything that happens after that is his fault. If he were to get murdered it is HIS fault. You don't chase suspects guilty or not. you have a description of him and that's all that matters. If I were Trayvon I woulda beat his ass too. Difference is, unlike Trayvon, I have a gun and know how to use it and wouldn't hesitate. Screw bringing him in and arresting him. Let him STAY free. He will get murdered sooner or later. Bet that. Jesus Christ, ya'll are crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocM Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 You're gonna tell me it took 1 month before an "eye witness" spoke up? Or before anyone knew of said eye witness? HAH. Bull-effing-**** Shows you didn't read the story, or the thread, before spewing. This witness was one of the original 911 callers, so he was there day-one and a primary witness to the police. He just came forth publicly today after reporters sniffed him out, and then only by his first name. So, a "HAH - Bull-effing-****" right back at you. Are people really trying to defend Zimmerman? > Jesus Christ, ya'll are crazy. No, just trying to maintain an even look at the available evidence, which includes an eyewitness who says it was the kid who attacked Zimmerman. Unless you were standing next to him I suggest you reel it in until all the evidence is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cute James Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Charles Blow (NY Times op-ed columnist) on 'Real Time with Bill Maher': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-eCNfIXxV8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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