69 replies to this topic 3 votes

[Digitalfox]

Hi,

Look, I think it's time for you Metro lovers to realize a couple of things.

Me and I believe many others, have no problem to have Metro on a Phone (I recently even bought a WP7.5 to my mom), on a tablet similar to the iPad and even on the Desktop/Notebook/Netbook.

There's no problem that it comes by default in Desktop/Notebook/Netbook, I'm sure many will love it and find it very easy to do.

My mother or my father, would sure find much more simple to open a Webpage, with IE on Metro.

But even in a option very hidden (UAC or even in registry), give to all of us who don't find metro to be their best way of working and organizing there apps, the old and outdated (like many Metro lovers like to stress) Start menu and the ability to start from the desktop mode or even disable Metro all together...

Now many will just say, stick to Windows 7, since you can't understand how to use a brand new GUI...

Or even worse, "If you don't use Metro there's no reason to use Windows 8"...

That's just wrong and at the same time stupid when coming from people who read the Win8Blog or have some knowledge of all the underneath changes that happen on Windows 8.


- Faster Boot up. On one of my machines, from 59s(Win7+SP1) to 23s(Win8 CP).

- Improved explorer, with Copy/Pause/All actions in the same window, etc..
And don't even start me, with using teracopy, that is nothing like having this operations in a native way.

- Mount ISO's, again nothing like having no need for a third party app.

- New Task Manager, far really better... Again... I know you can use Sysinternals, not the same thing (Although, yes Sysinternals is still more powerful)...

- Instant Network connection.. How many times have I turned o a PC from Sleep and had to wait 5 or even 10 seconds to copy a file from it, just because it's connecting to the network just like it was restarted...


Now, I'm sure I'm going to read some strong words against me.

But this post is from a guy who started with a Spectrum back in the 80s, then Commodore Amigas 500 and 600, and had my first PC a Intel 386 running MS-DOS...

I went all the way from Windows 3.11 -> 95 -> 98 -> 98SE -> 2000 -> ME(just a few weeks) -> 2000 -> XP -> Vista -> 7 ...


So Microsoft (I know that there are members from Neowin who do work at Microsoft and more precisely in Windows 8 development), I know I'm just a user on millions if not billions of Windows users, but like me I can feel and quite honestly just by reading dozens of forums each day that people want to have the option of opting out of Metro, so please just give the option..

It won't hurt who want's to use Metro, and will make the life of who doesn't want to use Metro now or in the near future a far better one, a happy Windows costumer...

[Mordkanin]

People had similar complaints against the start menu. I know people who stayed on Windows 3.11 for years because they didn't want a different UI. There's room for improvement, but overall, the benefits of having a unified UI paradigm across all these device platforms outweigh the only major downside, I've come across, which is that it's "different". It's not inherently worse, at least not in any usage case I've seen after a couple weeks of using it. On a PC, is it worth it? Probably not. It's not inherently better or worse as a UI, in my opinion. But you can't look at it in a vacuum. When you consider the whole: That is, having apps that seamlessly transition between all these different devices, it shows benefit. And let's face it, you don't really have much of a choice. It's nearing completion at this point.

[+Brando212]

I love your post and you made some very good points

but microsoft will not provide any way to disable metro because in very basic words, they are experimenting. they want to see how average people react and get used to it after RTM, and if there was a way to turn it off, most people wouldn't even give metro a chance

I can understand why people don't really like it on the desktop, but it's still maturing at this time and like the ability to see some info without even having to open an app, which is one of the key points microsoft is going for

who's to say whether or not metro start screen will still be there in Windows 9, IMO it will all depend on the statistics and info microsoft gathers after RTM

[Lels]

Can these points not be made in an already existing Windows 8 thread? Pretty sure there are quite a few of them. The shear amount of Windows 8 threads like this is getting ridiculous to say the least...

[a1ien]

Even Windows 95 didn't remove the program manager from Windows 3.1. You could switch the shell to use program manager instead of the start menu if you wanted.

And please, don't forget the reason for forcing Metro on us: to keep it in the face of developers and to encourage tablet app development so that MS does not lose the war to Apple wrt to the iPad.

[nik louch]

Quote

Look, I think it's time for you Metro lovers to realize a couple of things.

That's always a great intro...

I love Metro. It works awesomely on phones, and can do on desktops (metroTwit)...

But I just feel MS have used it terribly.

[+Brando212]

nik louch, on 27 March 2012 - 19:06, said:

That's always a great intro...

I love Metro. It works awesomely on phones, and can do on desktops (metroTwit)...

But I just feel MS have used it terribly.

which is why I believe that Windows 8 is very much an experiment for Microsoft

[Digitalfox]

MioTheGreat, on 27 March 2012 - 18:55, said:

People had similar complaints against the start menu. I know people who stayed on Windows 3.11 for years because they didn't want a different UI. There's room for improvement, but overall, the benefits of having a unified UI paradigm across all these device platforms outweigh the only major downside, I've come across, which is that it's "different". It's not inherently worse, at least not in any usage case I've seen after a couple weeks of using it. On a PC, is it worth it? Probably not. It's not inherently better or worse as a UI, in my opinion. But you can't look at it in a vacuum. When you consider the whole: That is, having apps that seamlessly transition between all these different devices, it shows benefit. And let's face it, you don't really have much of a choice. It's nearing completion at this point.

I understand that, but a option wouldn't create problems for the average user.

Brando212, on 27 March 2012 - 18:59, said:

I love your post and you made some very good points

but microsoft will not provide any way to disable metro because in very basic words, they are experimenting. they want to see how average people react and get used to it after RTM, and if there was a way to turn it off, most people wouldn't even give metro a chance

I can understand why people don't really like it on the desktop, but it's still maturing at this time and like the ability to see some info without even having to open an app, which is one of the key points microsoft is going for

who's to say whether or not metro start screen will still be there in Windows 9, IMO it will all depend on the statistics and info microsoft gathers after RTM

I believe nothing major will change between now and the RTM, the RC will just have a couple of new icons an images and that's it.

Lels, on 27 March 2012 - 19:00, said:

Can these points not be made in an already existing Windows 8 thread? Pretty sure there are quite a few of them. There shear amount of Windows 8 threads like this is getting ridiculous to say the least...

I wanted a new topic, because most people won't even bother to read the ones that already exist with many pages, or because they already have a opinion over those topics or don't want' read them again.

[Detection]

I completely agree with OP

Windows and MS should and should always be about choice, they advertise about how they have brought into the equation, US. (Not the U.S, US as in We)

US ? NO.

Link me to a "We Want Metro Only" Thread as powerful as all the threads I have read Against Pure Metro, and I`ll stand down.

Microsoft, what you are creating with metro is good, damn, its great. But what you created with Windows 7 was outstanding.

The improvements over 7 are something we never expected, so bravo, but the downsides are pitiful. We only ask one thing. A choice.

Sh*t.. make it difficult, make it subscription only, whatever, but make it a choice.



EDIT - I hate retrospect ... Damn you alcohol


but I agree with the above post..

[billyea]

Brando212, on 27 March 2012 - 18:59, said:

I love your post and you made some very good points

but microsoft will not provide any way to disable metro because in very basic words, they are experimenting. they want to see how average people react and get used to it after RTM, and if there was a way to turn it off, most people wouldn't even give metro a chance

Also because Microsoft doesn't want support calls going like this:
Technician: "Okay now press the lower left corner of the screen to open the start screen and click 'Messaging', does this work?"
User: "What? That doesn't happen."
Technician: "Do you get the start screen?"
User: "What's a start screen? Is that the start menu? I see the start menu."
Technician: "Are you using Windows 8?"
User: "Yes."
Technician: "Have you disabled metro?"
User: "What's a metro? Is it that thing my brother turned off when he set up my computer because he said it sucks?"

[Dot Matrix]

+DigitalFox, What exactly do you think Windows 9, 10, 11.... etc will look like? Metro isn't going away whether you and others hate it or not. If you don't want it, now is the time to jump ship. But, it won't be long before other desktop OSs do much in the same.

Metro is the way forward for Microsft at this point. It's NOT going to magically just disappear for the next Windows release. But why should it? Computers are evolving, and it's time we had an OS that can evolve with it and fit to many form factors without breaking compatibility with eachother or the need to maintain multiple operating systems.

billyea, on 27 March 2012 - 19:14, said:

Also because Microsoft doesn't want support calls going like this:
Technician: "Okay now press the lower left corner of the screen to open the start screen and click 'Messaging', does this work?"
User: "What? That doesn't happen."
Technician: "Do you get the start screen?"
User: "What's a start screen? Is that the start menu? I see the start menu."
Technician: "Are you using Windows 8?"
User: "Yes."
Technician: "Have you disabled metro?"
User: "What's a metro? Is it that thing my brother turned off when he set up my computer because he said it sucks?"

I've seen this exact conversation before, except replace "Metro" with "Vista Style Start Menu", "AERO Glass", "UAC", "Windows 7 Superbar"...

[Aergan]

I've been using Windows 8 Consumer Preview since the release, I am quite happy to live without the Start Menu as I either use the Start Screen or WIN+R.

That being said, I bought a Microsoft Desktop 600 KB + Mouse set the other day for the brother-in-law.
I saw on the back "Windows Logo Key - Access the Windows Start Menu to unlock your Windows 7 desktop experience". I did have a "trollolol" moment at reading that.

[Digitalfox]

billyea, on 27 March 2012 - 19:14, said:

Also because Microsoft doesn't want support calls going like this:
Technician: "Okay now press the lower left corner of the screen to open the start screen and click 'Messaging', does this work?"
User: "What? That doesn't happen."
Technician: "Do you get the start screen?"
User: "What's a start screen? Is that the start menu? I see the start menu."
Technician: "Are you using Windows 8?"
User: "Yes."
Technician: "Have you disabled metro?"
User: "What's a metro? Is it that thing my brother turned off when he set up my computer because he said it sucks?"

If that would be the only problem remote support would have they would be the happiest guys on a job...

Dot Matrix, on 27 March 2012 - 19:17, said:

+DigitalFox, What exactly do you think Windows 9, 10, 11.... etc will look like? Metro isn't going away whether you hate it or not. If you don't want it, now is the time to jump ship.

Metro is the way forward for Microsft at this point. It's NOT going to magically just disappear for the next Windows release. But why should it? Computers are evolving, and it's time we had an OS that can evolve with it and fit to many form factors without breaking compatibility with eachother or the need to maintain multiple operating systems.

Ah my first Metro fish catch...

Read carefully my Metro fish friend, who said I want it to go away for you?

Who said I didn't understand that many people will find more easy to work with?

Didn't I gave my mother and father example?

No one is saying Metro should die, but let it be there to everyone who want's it and give the other users an option to not use it on Desktop's/Notebook's and Netbooks...

[Dot Matrix]

Digitalfox, on 27 March 2012 - 19:43, said:

No one is saying Metro should die, but let it be there to everyone who want's it and give the other users an option to not use it on Desktop's/Notebook's and Netbooks...

But that would be counter-productive for Microsoft who is trying to kickstart a new generation of computing. How can they induce change when everyone is just going to run away from it?

What does this new start screen do that the old one didn't? If anything users should be joyous over it - it offers better customization and better layout options than the start menu ever could.

[Digitalfox]

Dot Matrix, on 27 March 2012 - 19:49, said:

How can they induce change when everyone is just going to run away from it?

Wouldn't that mean if and if that happen (of course it wouldn't, there's always those who love changes, and I have no problem admitting many users do love metro), that Microsoft is heading to the wrong road, shouldn't it always be a better experience than in the past for as many as possible users?