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I seem recall Windows XP having one (not 100% on that :s)

Yes, XP had a built in tour that pretty much harassed you each time you turned on the PC.

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If you need a tutorial then something has gone wrong.

Yes, the idea of instructions is an awful one. Everyone should just be expected to know how things work, even if they've never used anything like it before :)

/s

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If you need a tutorial then something has gone wrong.

Vehicles with manual transmission.

Cooking

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Windows 7 has the Getting Started screen that shows on first boot. Go online to learn more links to some basic tutorials and a tour.
Ah, I never considered that a tutorial - it's mostly just a collection of shortcuts.

Anyway, I'm interested to see what the tutorial is going to be like. If it's any good then hopefully it will be useful to power users as much as newcomers.

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If you need a tutorial then something has gone wrong.

Utter BS.

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If you need a tutorial then something has gone wrong.

While I don't agree completely, I do agree that you shouldn't need a tutorial to explain where invisible menus and how to use gestures(closing a program)

Because they shouldn't exist on a desktop OS using a mouse and keyboard.

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tsk tsk tsk. all win 8 needed was better performance on slower hardware and ui tweaks. we didnt need metro apps or metro start screen. the windows store was a good idea but then everything turned it into something unfriendly unpolished and weird like a half assed college design project and it really is a dead end road. it might be great for the fanboy who installed the cp on all his 3 pcs but there is no real world productivity or versatility value to the whole thing. maybe it would work great on a platform designed for a quiosk or something. imo the metro ui is going the same way windows me, vista, and desktop gadgets went.

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While I don't agree completely, I do agree that you shouldn't need a tutorial to explain where invisible menus and how to use gestures(closing a program)

Because they shouldn't exist on a desktop OS using a mouse and keyboard.

Huh? Most operating systems have "invisible menus" in the form of right-clicking on the desktop and Windows 7 also had the Aero Peak functionality in the bottom-right corner of the screen, in addition to Aero Snap. Once you get used to the changes they really aren't an issue, though some of the functionality could - and likely will - be improved. Including a tutorial is a positive thing, not a negative thing. It just seems that you can't please the critics.

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tsk tsk tsk. all win 8 needed was better performance on slower hardware and ui tweaks. we didnt need metro apps or metro start screen. the windows store was a good idea but then everything turned it into something unfriendly unpolished and weird like a half assed college design project and it really is a dead end road. it might be great for the fanboy who installed the cp on all his 3 pcs but there is no real world productivity or versatility value to the whole thing. maybe it would work great on a platform designed for a quiosk or something. imo the metro ui is going the same way windows me, vista, and desktop gadgets went.

Desktop gadgets turned out to be waste even though it was a good idea. Obviously people don't care about gadgets which just like tiles have live information therefore people wont care about tiles and Metro itself. As I said before it is useless for PC since each application within PC has its way of notifying users and if people close those apps they did for a reason and they for sure don't want anything to run in the background. Microsoft got it all wrong, their research always makes me wonder. For whatever reason Microsoft is trying to apply limited phone interface to PC which is basically downgrade for PC itself. At this point of technology having tutorial seems like bad joke. It would be like giving tutorial to people on my web page to show them where is submit button for the form and have them go into corner to find one. All UI principles and usability fails with Windows 8. For sure this release will make school books to add section of 'What not to do'.

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It's funny how you criticize metro and metro apps when your own posts shows you don't have a clue how metro apps work.

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It's funny how you criticize metro and metro apps when your own posts shows you don't have a clue how metro apps work.

I don't know how they "Work". Please explain it to me. The way I see Metro apps.. I can't have 5 of them on my screen at a time for quick copying and pasting of text to multiple places. I can't minimize them to see other screens that I may have running in the back, I have to actually go window to window to do this.

Maybe I am missing the point of them. But to me they are full screen, non-bordered apps.. very similar to the lock screen programs I would write in VB6 actually. Can't have multiple of them open and visible at one time. For example, the programs I am working with I have 4 different windows all open showing me information. Which I understand can be done on the desktop, but with this push to Metro it seems like there is going to be a very clear division. On top of that all apps I run full screen won't ever be Metro as they are games like D3, WoW, Rift, etc. Even then I like having them run in Windowed mode so I can see Talent Builds, Thottbot, whatever.

I guess I just don't understand the benefit of 1 app, full screen, and having to switch window to window, one at a time (or pulling up a hidden menu, and clicking on the box you think is the right one). So if you don't mind explaining it to me, I would greatly appreciate it.

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Desktop gadgets turned out to be waste even though it was a good idea. Obviously people don't care about gadgets which just like tiles have live information therefore people wont care about tiles and Metro itself. As I said before it is useless for PC since each application within PC has its way of notifying users and if people close those apps they did for a reason and they for sure don't want anything to run in the background.

Speak for yourself. Live tiles are getting praise on Windows Phone.

Microsoft got it all wrong, their research always makes me wonder. For whatever reason Microsoft is trying to apply limited phone interface to PC which is basically downgrade for PC itself. At this point of technology having tutorial seems like bad joke. It would be like giving tutorial to people on my web page to show them where is submit button for the form and have them go into corner to find one. All UI principles and usability fails with Windows 8. For sure this release will make school books to add section of 'What not to do'.

It's called convergence of technology. Why have two operating systems, when you can converge your resources into one?

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Speak for yourself. Live tiles are getting praise on Windows Phone.

But, what does the Live Tile offer me, that the notification bar doesn't? Or that my e-mail apps don't? A Live tile shows weather, well so does my weather gadget. A Live tile shows me my e-mail, so does my notification bar. A live tiles shows me how many new texts I have, so does my notification bar.

What makes live tiles any better? to me, they take up more space so that actually makes it worse.

It's called convergence of technology. Why have two operating systems, when you can converge your resources into one?

Because trying to merge two systems designed for entirely different uses will result in cuts to one or the other. So having two systems that can integrate with each other (iCloud for example), and building each OS individually independant of the other, while having syncing, and sharing features is better than cutting corners, or changing the entire environment just to get interfaces to look the same.

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Humans by nature don't like change. Simple as that.

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But, what does the Live Tile offer me, that the notification bar doesn't?

Whatever you want, without getting in the way.

Give Metro time to mature and develop, and you'll forget all about Win32. You just have to be open to the possibilities a metro-like UI brings to the PC.

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Whatever you want, without getting in the way.

Give Metro time to mature and develop, and you'll forget all about Win32. You just have to be open to the possibilities a metro-like UI brings to the PC.

True but it is not ready yet. Microsoft should have waited for another or two Windows releases.

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time to mature and develop [...] open to the possibilities

In other words, as it stands, Metro is immature and underdeveloped, with only a faint promise of its potential to match or grow beyond the possibilities of desktop applications?!

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True but it is not ready yet. Microsoft should have waited for another or two Windows releases.

And let the PC market continue to suffer?

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It's amazing how many people can't seem to grasp the concept that Win8 is currently a BETA OS.

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And let the PC market continue to suffer?

Define suffering? Because the PC market seems fine to me, if you are going to blame sales numbers/income forecasts, look at the economy not the OS.

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Whatever you want, without getting in the way.

Give Metro time to mature and develop, and you'll forget all about Win32. You just have to be open to the possibilities a metro-like UI brings to the PC.

I'm keeping an open mind, but to me a single bar with all the notifications I need visible at all times basically. Tiles take up the full screen, and in some cases more than the screen shows. I'm still not sure where the benefit is. I can get all of the things a tile shows in a small gadget or notification bar. I just am not seeing it.

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It's amazing how many people can't seem to grasp the concept that Win8 is currently a BETA OS.

It is the concept of Windows Phone applied to Desktop which automatically brings limitation to Desktop itself since Windows Phone is limited compared to PC but Metro suits it fine.

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It's amazing how many people can't seem to grasp the concept that Win8 is currently a BETA OS.

Do you honestly expect it to change much before it RTM's in a few months time?

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I'm keeping an open mind, but to me a single bar with all the notifications I need visible at all times basically. Tiles take up the full screen, and in some cases more than the screen shows. I'm still not sure where the benefit is. I can get all of the things a tile shows in a small gadget or notification bar. I just am not seeing it.

Basically condenses "at a glance" info in one spot, and allows for more than 1 notification to be showing at a time.

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True but it is not ready yet. Microsoft should have waited for another or two Windows releases.

things wouldn't have been much different, there's only so much microsoft can do in regards to releasing their own apps

it all comes down to, what will 3rd party developers do with metro when it RTMs

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