258 replies to this topic 14 votes

[Rickkins]

PGHammer, on 11 May 2012 - 03:19, said:

But because the UI is different *and* it adds support for new applications with a different user interface, you dismiss that backward-compatibilty as being irrelevant.

But don't you see, if the majority of desktop owners avoid 8, and every indication is that they will, then the entire os will become irrelevant.

As it stands now, win8 will not rival apple or android on mobiles/pads, and will fail miserably on desktops. Irrelevant seems an understatement. Yes, we all know ms will claim huge successes, as they did with winme & vista, but we all also know bullploppy when we see or hear it.

[Dashel]

Really don't follow you PGHammer. Are you saying that I should be thankful that Win8 is tailored to run Windows applications? That is the compatibility olive branch from Microsoft on behalf of us desktop users that don't realize our platform is a dead man walking? Serious?

While new growth of course has occured in the mobile device space, you seem dangerously close to being another declarer of the death of the desktop.

The changes most of us want would have no effect on giving each device their just due, its simply stubborness if they continue this foolhardy path (or again, its simply their drastic efforts to jump start their marketplace).

[Dot Matrix]

osuwildlifer, on 11 May 2012 - 03:07, said:

Because i'm a fan of trying out new things? Also because I'm an IT manager and want to learn it as best as possible before deciding that my workplace will not be upgrading to it? Also, bright one, i have more than one computer.

I actually had an interview where the interviewee was pleased and impressed that I had Windows 8 listed on my resume. Not bad for a "turd OS".

Jus' sayin'.

[PGHammer]

Dashel, on 11 May 2012 - 18:10, said:

Really don't follow you PGHammer. Are you saying that I should be thankful that Win8 is tailored to run Windows applications? That is the compatibility olive branch from Microsoft on behalf of us desktop users that don't realize our platform is a dead man walking? Serious?

While new growth of course has occured in the mobile device space, you seem dangerously close to being another declarer of the death of the desktop.

The changes most of us want would have no effect on giving each device their just due, its simply stubborness if they continue this foolhardy path (or again, its simply their drastic efforts to jump start their marketplace).

Not the death of the desktop, but the death of the desktop form-factor as the most important form-factor.
Let's be honest - Windows itself (in the current form) began before laptops, let alone notebooks and netbooks.
Leaving non-x86 hardware out of the mix (and that includes Windows RT), exactly how relevant are desktop PCs (as a form-factor)?

In order for Windows to remain relevant as an operating system, it has to embrace other form-factors just as it embraced laptops, notebooks, and netbooks. Otherwise, your worry about Windows becoming a niche operating system will fulfill itself.

In fact, where would computing (let alone Windows) be without laptops/notebooks/netbooks?

[ChrisJ1968]

Does anyone here still believe in the old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" in this case, if some of us like the classic UI we've been accustomed to, why not install the UI of our choice? you can't win people over friendly to a new OS by nailing them to a wall by force to make them use the new UI. I admit MS makes some good OSes but, whoever get the concept of the metro UI in their head needs to be fired.

[Dashel]

Still don't follow you. Sure, the desktop form factor won't live on as the defacto standard, no issue there. That doesn't mean that the form factor is obsolete, or to the point, that our form factor is so irrelevant already that it should be regulated to some harebrained definition of legacy support.

There is nothing stopping Windows from embracing other form factors. That isn't really a point of contention. The issue is that they are catering to one class of device at the expense of a much larger one. Cause billions of PCs is just sooo niche.

Where would computing or Windows be without portables? Same place we already are since they haven't done ****. Only the advent of ubiquitous networking and capacitive, lightweight screens has changed anything - namely the new mobile space that this OS clearly favors in its current state.

[Dot Matrix]

ChrisJ1968, on 11 May 2012 - 19:58, said:

Does anyone here still believe in the old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" in this case, if some of us like the classic UI we've been accustomed to, why not install the UI of our choice?

No. I personally, don't. The Ford Model-T wasn't broke either, but you know the rest.

What happens when a feature outlives its usefulness? Then what? Personally, I think the Classic UI should have been done with with Windows 7. The Start Menu died with Vista. It's time for all of that to go.

[+Brando212]

ChrisJ1968, on 11 May 2012 - 19:58, said:

Does anyone here still believe in the old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" in this case, if some of us like the classic UI we've been accustomed to, why not install the UI of our choice? you can't win people over friendly to a new OS by nailing them to a wall by force to make them use the new UI. I admit MS makes some good OSes but, whoever get the concept of the metro UI in their head needs to be fired.

hmm, so we should still be using nothing but DOS? it worked just fine, why should we have changed from that?

that aside, or maybe not, that saying doesn't really work, especially where technology is concerned in its ever evolving state

[PGHammer]

ChrisJ1968, on 11 May 2012 - 19:58, said:

Does anyone here still believe in the old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it?" in this case, if some of us like the classic UI we've been accustomed to, why not install the UI of our choice? you can't win people over friendly to a new OS by nailing them to a wall by force to make them use the new UI. I admit MS makes some good OSes but, whoever get the concept of the metro UI in their head needs to be fired.

And that sort of adage in IT is exactly what led to that five year desert between XP and Vista. Are you actually looking forward to another one?

Microsoft certainly isn't - and the rest of merely the US economy - let alone the global economy - is looking forward to it even less.

If anything, the poor economy has put more pressure on Microsoft - not less.

Or have we forgotten how important Windows is to the global economy - not just Microsoft as a company?

Right now, Windows is being dealt the "death of a thousand cuts" - and it isn't OS X, Linux, or even UNIX with the sharp/pointy objects. It's Android and the forks thereof, iOS, and other niche OSes.

If Microsoft stands pat (as the detractors are recommending), it will become a niche player. That much is certain.

Why are you in favor of that?
s

[ChrisJ1968]

Brando212, on 11 May 2012 - 20:36, said:

hmm, so we should still be using nothing but DOS? it worked just fine, why should we have changed from that?

that aside, or maybe not, that saying doesn't really work, especially where technology is concerned in its ever evolving state

well no. but how does a interface for human interaction outlive it's usefulness? Well the only Microsoft has is itself. to me, back in the 90's MS was innovating software, breaking new ground. Seems now that MS is relevant in so much that, it acquires other companies, Skype comes to mind. But the start button/menu isn't dead. But some of you folks like the latest and greatest. me?, I'm a simple meat and potatoes kind of guy.

[+Brando212]

ChrisJ1968, on 11 May 2012 - 20:45, said:

well no. but how does a interface for human interaction outlive it's usefulness? Well the only Microsoft has is itself. to me, back in the 90's MS was innovating software, breaking new ground. Seems now that MS is relevant in so much that, it acquires other companies, Skype comes to mind. But the start button/menu isn't dead. But some of you folks like the latest and greatest. me?, I'm a simple meat and potatoes kind of guy.

it doesn't, but then how metro NOT an interface for human interaction?

you're right they aren't dead, they've just changed, like anything does over time, some changes are more extreme than others that's evolution. it's not always a good thing but how can you learn anything new if you don't experiment?

[Dot Matrix]

ChrisJ1968, on 11 May 2012 - 20:45, said:

well no. but how does a interface for human interaction outlive it's usefulness?

It doesn't it evolves. Exactly what it's doing here. This marks the transition from static, point and click, to dynamic, and multi-input.

[PGHammer]

Dashel, on 11 May 2012 - 20:06, said:

Still don't follow you. Sure, the desktop form factor won't live on as the defacto standard, no issue there. That doesn't mean that the form factor is obsolete, or to the point, that our form factor is so irrelevant already that it should be regulated to some harebrained definition of legacy support.

There is nothing stopping Windows from embracing other form factors. That isn't really a point of contention. The issue is that they are catering to one class of device at the expense of a much larger one. Cause billions of PCs is just sooo niche.

Where would computing or Windows be without portables? Same place we already are since they haven't done ****. Only the advent of ubiquitous networking and capacitive, lightweight screens has changed anything - namely the new mobile space that this OS clearly favors in its current state.

Favoring any particular class of device is no longer practical - and that includes the desktop form-factor.

That's the real reason for all the angst among the detractors - and they have actually dared admit it.

Until Windows 8, Windows itself had a strong desktop bias. (In fact, until recently, Windows didn't play very nice with portable PCs such as laptops and notebooks, and how much of an issue is Windows on netbooks today?)

Now, that desktop bias isn't there. And that very fact is why there are screams galore.

It can be honestly compared to the reaction among rednecks in Alabama when no less than George Wallace began courting the Black vote. (Some redneck wag actually had a poster of Wallace with horns, pitchfork, parka - and wearing ice skates - in front of a snow-covered Governor's House in Birmingham. Said poster made its way to Maryland - and eventually to CNN.)

That Windows 8 in Consumer Preview form is actually *better* in terms of backward compatibility than Windows 7 + Service Pack 1 is - despite that lack of desktop bias - has amazed even the detractors. (As well it should; as I myself pointed out, backward-compatibility has traditionally been a bugbear for betas of Windows.)

I know it sounds horrible to compare the UI-skewering that Windows 8 has caused to the angst among erstwhile Klanspersons to "Governor Segregation" actively courting Black voters; just think how it is for *me* (someone that is Black, a registered Democrat, who lives in the state where someone actually tried to KILL the man - and then to see the man change his spots so dramatically) to see avowed liberals acting like so many avowed Rick Santorum supporters and other reactionaries - all by moving from politics to Windows.

Is this how the Obamas would feel if they crashed the GOP convention later this year in Tampa?

[ChrisJ1968]

will be interesting to see if someone like these fellas who know the ins and outs of the windows interfaces will come up with something like a start menu

Just curious why MS doesn't want to play nice though... you know, with mozilla? seems crazy.

[Dashel]

So then really we agree, they have ****ed desktop users in their bid to support a wider range of devices under the Windows heading. Im not sure what you are basing Windows not supporting laptops comes from. Desktops/laptops/netbooks/ultrabooks all use the SAME control scheme so they all work just fine under the 'old' system.

Touch is the problem. GUIs are based around what the control mechanism is. So far, Win8 has made inroads like you say for touch devices, it ****s everyone who uses the keyboard and mouse. I just like how initially you denied that it retarded desktop users, now you admit it, call it 'legacy', and say thats the price for progress.

Instead of making the touch UI the overlay, MS in their infinite stupidity, has made the desktop the overlay. This singular **** up is why Win8 won't see its way on to anything but slate devices for me if they don't wise up.

Again, the things we want are so miniscule that only outright stubborness is making this an issue to begin with.