neowin Why are you less active than you used to on the Neowin forums?

[cacoe]

I think "google it" should be banned as a generic answer to problems. I very often come here after failing to find a solution via google. Maybe I don't put enough time into googling or use a good enough search term but I try my best and have been greeted with this as my main option.

Even if there is an answer on google, if you take the time to post "google it", you could at the very least google it and paste the url, it'd probably only take a fraction extra of the time.

If you don't want to do that and think it's a question that could simply be answered by google, then don't answer! I very often find myself using google to help other people on here. Sometimes, you have to know what you're searching for before you can find your answer on google! One search term vs another might bring up quite different results whereas both might also be obvious choices for the problem at hand.

If you want to promote the usage of google, post the url and type below "I found this by googling for xxxxxxxx", it'd be far more positive.

[shakey]

As others have touched on, the main reason I do not post as much as I otherwise would is all the flaming. I cannot even count all the times I started typing a new post or response, only to change my mind and delete it all because it's not worth the trouble. I once posted a pic of myself in a thread where it was relevant (not trying to be 'sexy' or anything like that, wasn't that kind of thread), and got all kinds of negative comments about it. If I bring up an alternate point of view, or try to find a compromise between two sides in an argument, I'm either insulted, dismissed, or most often, completely ignored.

Basically, I feel that the overall attitude here is negative and volatile, and I brace myself when making almost any kind of post--and you all should know I don't even post inflammatory types of things, I try to be level-headed and mature and intelligent in my posts--yet I still feel hesitant at times. I don't really feel like part of the community. I realise I am not exactly the target demographic for this forum (I guess? I'm certainly a minority at any rate), and that's fine, I don't intend to change that, but I do wish people were as open-minded, tolerant, intelligent, well-spoken, and just plain kind as a site of this purpose and reputation should foster. In general, people are such ###### on the internet. I wish this place was a bit different.

I of course do not mean everyone--I have met some great people here as well. I have respect for quite a few folks here and enjoy interacting with them. Unfortunately, though, it is far more common to see the opposite. As with most situations, the good average folks are generally quieter, and the loud extreme minority ruins it for everyone. I don't know, maybe I'm old now and jaded with the younger generation who was entirely raised on the internet and are used to this attitude everywhere, but it'd be great to see this be a fun, helpful, supportive, diverse community.

Edit: forgot my entire second point altogether, which was the quality of news articles, yeah. There seems to be a particular news reporter who goes for quantity over quality, and it really brings things down. There are also one or two veteran reporters who aren't working anymore and I wish they were, they always did a stellar job.

I agree with this. I do the same thing. Lately, I've been trying to stay clear of RWI, as I have noticed it sours my attitude towards others, and the same of others towards each other. While we have opinions, heated topics are not dicussed in a valid and open way. They are more like snide remarks and hidden stabs within what someone views as their reality.

I started at Neowin because of how I could as well, Nerd Out. I enjoyed the old days of asking for PC help, giving out the help, or just reading about some cool project or tech piece.

I mostly post in the gamers/media section, as I feel that is an area that is less bitter and volatile for rudeness. It is a lot easier to take, " I dislike this game blah blah blah" than to take, " I think people should be oppressed because whateverblalhblahblah ". While a place for open ideas is good, a lot of ideas need to just be kept inside the persons head.

I would like to see Neowin go back to what it used to be... if that is even possible. More tech and game related post. Less real world issues.

Also, if you are going to have contest.. Let's not allow people who just joined, to get memberships :p While I don't have any room to really call anything "cheap" , since I still haven't bought a membership... giving memberships to people who haven't provide the site with anything, in hopes that they might, is a bad idea. It might be a good idea to have some sort of incentive to providing for this site. I don't need one nor can I think of any real type... but it might help post count to give things out to those who provide the site with much of the traffic/staying power topics and discussions..... Did any of this make sense. I haven't had my coffee yet :(

Less people are as well, asking for help in important areas. Most help is about what type of whatever they should buy. Before, it used to be about how to tweak windows or some other program, or in the lines of something more technical. I've helped a few people with what I could when I noticed the topics, but I haven't seen many lately, and the ones that I have seen, sadly, I would be no help as my education in that subject isn't up to par with what they need.

Side note... Why does "piece" look like it is misspelled to me.... must be the lack of coffee :/

[SMELTN]

Like others have said, mini spy was 99% of my use, and for days at a time it is full of the same topics which are all non technology based, most of the time Politics... Just have no interest in it. I come here for technology stuff.

l

Windows Customization was the biggest but with Windows 7 this has almost stopped.

Games - especially good Windows games.. Again with consoles getting bigger and the devs themselves pretty much saying they are focusing on consoles. Not a ton of game discussion

Also like others have said, sick and tired of the fanboism.. Its terrible, but its not Neowin. Like Mephistopheles said, its the entire interent now, be it here, the Verge, Engadget, etc.

[~Johnny]

Well I'm active, but I still have my own frustrations - an overall abundance of non-tech related topics and politcal issues that seem to be taking over the forum, rather than actual technical related news and postings. One of the original reasons I joined Neowin was because I enjoyed reading technical posts and discussions that there used to be lots off, but they seem to have evaporated recently - mainly replaced by rampant trolling, daft pictures and the same arguments being repeated all the time (though as has been pointed out, this seems like just a general internet problem nowadays). That said, I love Tim's work, and I appreciate all the effort behind that scenes that goes on to try and improve the site.

Of course, being a moderator also means I get to see all the complaint reports from parts of the forums I didn't usually visit, and I see a lot of reports like "This guy doesn't agree with my opinion, warn him / delete his post / ban him / do something about it!". Sometimes it's fair game - but a lot of the time it's for silly little irrelevant things. Honestly, are we not all level headed people that can accept people have differing opinions? I think people have to accept that there's not just one valid viewpoint, and not to take what others say personally and start getting upset about it.

[Bryan R.]

Going off of the notion that fanboism and flaming are the biggest concerns, I would suggest heavier moderation on those specifically. It's great that moderation be transparent, but I think it needs to be known in the community that there are active consequences to those two things above others. Somehow those people need to be weeded out so that real discussion can take hold. If we can do that, the off topic sections won't be a problem to have around. I suppose that's the real question though, how to get rid of them while being just in doing it.

[Lachlan]

one thing stops me from using neowin as much as I want too is a technical problem.. I personally find signing into the mobile website a huge pain in the butt.. Because once you sign in it takes you to the forums but if you want to comment on a home page article it takes forever to figure out how to get back there.. This is my biggest issue

[DevilsNotDead]

Too many extreme product supporters, see Dot Matrix and Cia. I'm proud to say that in my entire internet life (17 years) the only person who has blocked me has been dot matrix :D

Edit: and the last was because I used his own words against him.... or rather, I quoted him.

not to mention funkydude, -Razorfold and jakem1. they seem to be extreme when it comes to Microsoft product supporters.

[Tilt090]

place feels like it was bought out by microsoft. a billboard for windows 8. nothing original here just seems neowin to be salaried staff of MS trying to push public opinion in favour of products they get money from. people arent stupid.

[togerland]

My web forum has died too.... I blame facebook

[~Johnny]

place feels like it was bought out by microsoft. a billboard for windows 8. nothing original here just seems neowin to be salaried staff of MS trying to push public opinion in favour of products they get money from. people arent stupid.

To be perfectly honest - nearly all the Windows 8 editorials have been critical against it, not for it. See:

https://www.neowin.net/news/has-microsoft-forgotten-what-metros-all-about

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-a-comprimise-for-desktops-users-is-needed

https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-microsofts-big-hodgepodge-on-the-desktop

https://www.neowin.net/news/im-a-pc-and-is-windows-8-my-idea

[jakem1]

I'm glad to see I received an honourable mention although I'm not sure I would describe myself as extreme :)

As others have said there does seem to be a general lack of tolerance in the forums and many posters seem to be more interested in point scoring than discussing. It's interesting that many of the people in this thread who say they want more moderation are precisely the people that I often wish were moderated. That's probably a sign that we need both less moderation and less animosity.

I sometimes think that there's too much testosterone on these forums. Everyone seems to be out to prove a point and deal a single knock-out blow each time they post. I'm not sure how that will change because I don't think moderation is the solution beyond the odd thread cleaning (it's far too arbitrary and in the past I've felt that I'm being moderated by people who don't share my opinions and have taken action against me based a personal decision) so maybe this thread will calm people down and make them consider their actions instead.

I also think that people need to stop calling other people trolls, fanboys, etc. It's not productive, it's against the rules and it makes me feel like I'm at Engadget (i.e. wasting my time). Just because someone doesn't agree with you or prefers a different product doesn't make them a fanboy or a troll but if you suspect they are then maybe just keep it to yourself.

One especially tiresome problem in the Win8 threads is that every thread turns into an argument about the Start screen regardless of what the original thread was about. Only yesterday a story about startup times was littered with comments from people who hate Metro. I know that some people feel strongly about this but there's no need to have the same arguments over and over again. It's probably because of this issue that I've earned my reputation as a MS extremist (:laugh:) but it is really bad when technology discussions on a tech website get bogged down for no good reason again and again. As we can see from other posts here, people are avoiding the W8 threads because of these unnecessary arguments so something needs to change.

[djdanster]

The technical talk has definitely slowed down recently which is odd, especially when Windows 8 is just around the corner; maybe because peoples opinions are so divided and there are hardly any leaks to discuss.

I also feel the domestic politics section can get out of hand. It's bloody politics for christ sake!

The news comments are lively though :D. Maybe it's brought some attention away from the main forums.

Just an idea for the front page comments : when an article is created on the front page one is also created inside the forums, currently it's just a link that gets displayed once on the mini spy. This would allow for people to post under the article on the front page and on the forums. So the comments would be mirrored between the two. Opinions?

[RadishTM Veteran]

Mainly being on other social networks and I don't have as much free time as I used to due to life/relationships/work :)

Despite all of that, this place still holds a special place on the Internet for me and I try to immerse myself here as much as possible (Y)

[Bryan R.]

place feels like it was bought out by microsoft. a billboard for windows 8. nothing original here just seems neowin to be salaried staff of MS trying to push public opinion in favour of products they get money from. people arent stupid.

Oh come on, a whole new version of Windows is coming out and you want less information about it? This is a technical news site and you want less of technical news? There is news posted about everything out there Microsoft or otherwise.

[Prince Charming]

I was banned which kind of put a kibosh on my forum activity. Now I'm not. \o/

[dead.cell]

The frequency in which I visit this site hasn't changed. It's the community, or lack thereof I should say. Every time I come here, it seems the threads are getting colder and colder, where people are showing less interest in focused topics of discussion. Other times, people are just being outright ugly to one another. Aren't we all supposed to be bros here? (yes, females included) Aren't we supposed to be nice to one another?

Also, it seems we have folks who complain now about the moderation, as if being warned is incredibly hard to avoid! I've only been warned once here in my entire time on this forum, and it was for calling someone an idiot when I meant to say their argument is idiotic. Simple mistake, but I've never ever felt I've had to go OUT OF MY WAY to avoid being warned. It's all common sense for the most part.

Well I'm active, but I still have my own frustrations - an overall abundance of non-tech related topics and politcal issues that seem to be taking over the forum, rather than actual technical related news and postings. One of the original reasons I joined Neowin was because I enjoyed reading technical posts and discussions that there used to be lots off, but they seem to have evaporated recently - mainly replaced by rampant trolling, daft pictures and the same arguments being repeated all the time (though as has been pointed out, this seems like just a general internet problem nowadays). That said, I love Tim's work, and I appreciate all the effort behind that scenes that goes on to try and improve the site.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head here.

When I first came to this forum, I honestly didn't participate in too many conversations. Everyone was so intelligent and put their arguments forth with great depth, detail, and everything. I learned a lot just being here over the years. But as time went on, it seems these folks were run off almost by ignorant people who use words like "fanboy" as a weapon against anyone for having any sort of bias whatsoever. Disregard the fact that just about anyone who calls someone a "fanboy" actually IS a fanboy themselves too. It's like an attack on free speech by the of the community. One by one, many have gone, and I feel like many who are left are just close-minded individuals who don't care to argue intellectually, they are set in their ways, no one will make them believe otherwise, and they'll just continue on slamming and berating others for having any sort of differing opinion.

Times like that, I just get tired.

[xploit1030]

Or maybe (as someone I would assume is included in that phrase - which could be seen as an attack - but it's ok to attack some and not others) - I knew the guy IRL and his posts genuinely made me laugh because I understood where he was coming from.

this.

Back at that time I was a subscriber and very active (never a big poster but I always tried to help). He and I shared a common sense of humor so I did think he was funny, I won't try to justify anything he did as at times he did go too far but everything about what happened in the scenario is a good example of what was wrong with the site at that time. Even though I enjoyed the jokes and humor section and frequented that the most it accounted for less than 25% of my posts, I was much more active in Windows and Server forums. Back then the site was much more technically oriented, RWI is a microcasm of the site today with too many folks that cannot express their opinion without putting down the opposing views (for another example I reference the previously mentioned Windows 8/Metro arguement).

I still visit this site everyday, almost never posting, I miss the news being more timely. Perhaps the re-written stories may generate more traffic but I remember when quick summaries were posted with links to the original content rather than the re-interpritation of the same story from a new writer. This place felt more timely with news and there was a much larger community of active tech folks (at least more that were willing to help).

With all that said the complaints now are the same as 8 years ago, the flaming/baiting/trolling has always seemed to get worse and people always recalled it being better x years ago. I think more strict moderation is necessary to cut out the annoying behavior. Keeping in mind that the actions staff take against members are not going to effect only the member they are sanctioning. A little more professionalism should be expected out of all staff members (I don't believe this problem resides in a majority of the staff, but even one mod of questionable character makes the whole site look bad).

[ahhell]

It's not so much the fanboys that are the problem is the completely unbalanced way of dealing with them that is.??Say something negative about Apple and your post is almost immediately removed BUT something blatantly anti-Microsoft/trollish the mods do absolutely NOTHING about.??Just look at any Microsoft article that makes the front page.

Don't get me started on some of those ****ing editorials, especially the ones by Owen Williams.

[jakem1]

It's not so much the fanboys that are the problem is the completely unbalanced way of dealing with them that is. Say something negative about Apple and your post is almost immediately removed BUT something blatantly anti-Microsoft/trollish the mods do absolutely NOTHING about. Just look at any Microsoft article that makes the front page.

Don't get me started on some of those ****ing editorials, especially the ones by Owen Williams.

I agree. This is a big problem and I don't even bother reading any Apple-related posts in case I try to say something light-hearted and get banned by a mod with a big Apple style X for an avatar ;) It's the overzealous moderating in the Apple forum that gives me a low opinion of Neowin moderation in general.

[Ice_Blue]

One of the major problems with this site:

I was browsing this topic, and had to close Chrome because another open tab crashed.

Got distracted for a few minutes doing something else.

Came back to Neowin.

Topic nowhere to be found. Had to search and search. Why can't topics currently receiving a lot of attention be more prominently displayed, and easier to find?

More on topic, I think that the glory days of personal computing are over. Hence sites like Neowin get a lot less attention than they used to. Sites like this used to be the lifeblood of tech support personnel in days gone by.

Now, everything is a commodity, and tech is being increasingly dumbed down for the masses.

Competition is so fierce now that if your tech doesn't follow the "it just works" paradigm, you're not going to last.

Problem solving is now a shadow of what it once was. Most so-called "tech support personnel" barely know more than consumers themselves. Apple's "geniuses" and Best Buy's "geek squad" come to mind.

I'm sure most of you remember buying the parts for your build, and then trying to set dip switches and IRQs, and then frantically seeking help on your favourite BBS when, despite all your geek knowledge, it still refused to boot.

Now, hardly anyone bothers to troubleshoot. Stuff gets RMAed, and people are just too busy to bother.

The focus these days is on consuming content, and bitching on social media. YouTube and Facebook are what dominate people's lives.

Even the geeks.

[Reacon]

I think the quality of discussion and overall member attitude has gone down in correlation with moderators becoming less strict. This site has become less of a haven for maturity, and has instead fallen more into the realm of "just another forum".

The news is also very unfocused, and it seems like everything warrants its own article these days. More of tabloid tech journalism if you ask me.

The most simple way to fix this in my opinion would probably be to remove the article quotas for the writers. Since Neowin is never has really represented the "new" in news, perhaps this would open up time for writers to wait a few days for a situation to develop, and then write more than 2-3 paragraphs and slap a picture on it.

[Charisma Veteran]

I think the quality of discussion and overall member attitude has gone down in correlation with moderators becoming less strict. This site has become less of a haven for maturity, and has instead fallen more into the realm of "just another forum".

The news is also very unfocused, and it seems like everything warrants its own article these days. More of tabloid tech journalism if you ask me.

The most simple way to fix this in my opinion would probably be to remove the article quotas for the writers. Since Neowin is never has really represented the "new" in news, perhaps this would open up time for writers to wait a few days for a situation to develop, and then write more than 2-3 paragraphs and slap a picture on it.

This this this this oh god please yes.

(edit: I did not intend to sound as though I were having an orgasm at the end of that. But seriously. That would make the news section 10 times better to read, and infinitely more credible.)

[xploit1030]

I think the quality of discussion and overall member attitude has gone down in correlation with moderators becoming less strict. This site has become less of a haven for maturity, and has instead fallen more into the realm of "just another forum".

The news is also very unfocused, and it seems like everything warrants its own article these days. More of tabloid tech journalism if you ask me.

The most simple way to fix this in my opinion would probably be to remove the article quotas for the writers. Since Neowin is never has really represented the "new" in news, perhaps this would open up time for writers to wait a few days for a situation to develop, and then write more than 2-3 paragraphs and slap a picture on it.

I agree completely, while I stated earlier I would like the news to be more timely (late-breaking), if that model isn't possible I'd rather they include something else to give the news a different twist rather than just another re-write of an article I read days ago on another site.

[Aethec]

Well, the news section would be much more credible if it wasn't for John Callaham's "articles". (yes, I named someone ; that's probably not the point of this thread, but keeping accusations anonymous means going nowhere)

He writes most of the articles, and almost every article he writes is a repost from somewhere else, not necessarily interesting (e.g. the Win8 app dev blog...most people don't care about technical details), with a 3:1 ratio of paraphrasing and quotes compared to "new" content and no analysis of the situation at all. The language is also pretty basic, which does not help..

Paraphrasing and quoting articles only works for non-English websites because a lot of people rely on translations to get news, especially in a field where most news is in English only.

To be constructive, a few tips...first, do not write about something if it isn't interesting. I don't know how much articles the Neowin writers have to write and how much they are paid, but these conditions should not encourage writers to post a lot of uninteresting articles. Second, always quote the original source. If site A quotes news source X, do not say "Site A reports that..."; instead, say "According to source X, ...". Third, quotes should be used to prove one's point, not as the main article content. Fourth, do not simply look at the facts and report them; analyze them, put them in context, think of them as a logical flow that has to lead somewhere; where is MS going with Win8 ? Apple with OSX Lion? Canonical with Ubuntu? These companies all have goals in the long-term, and these goals are much more interesting than what they're doing right now.

I'm not going to do what this poll suggests and not come back until he is demoted because a) that'd be stupid and b) it's not like anyone will miss me but it'd greatly help if we actually had something to discuss about and not superficial rewrites.

Also, article comments should be closely watched. When a Win8 article is written, for example, comments like "Windows 8 will fail because it's ugly" do not belong to the article; instead, that kind of thing should be discussed in the forums. Comments, as their name implies, are a way to comment on something, not to repeat the same thing every time a subject pops up.

[Vice]

Almost every thread on here that is about Apple, Google, Microsoft or their products turns in to an argument. It seems like no one can have a topic about a piece of software or hardware without someone who doesn't like that software, hardware or the company that releases it coming in and saying something disparaging to the extent it baits others to respond defensively and then before you know it the thread has gained 10 pages of why something is better or worse than something else.

It is for that reason I don't post as frequently because that is most of the content on this forum now. I try to just respond to topics where there is no way what I say can be misconstrued or replied to in a way that would start a flame war but it is difficult because I feel some on here are just looking for an argument constantly. I even made a comment in some lottery ticket topic and someone quoted me and was condescending.

It isn't a unique problem to Neowin of course other sites have this kind of thing too but the difference is other sites like Reddit which allow discussions on a wide range of topics also allow for negative comments to be removed from view by community vote. A feature that would greatly improve the sound to noise ratio on this board in my opinion. I know previously we could vote up and down posts but it never went as far to actually remove or collapse comments which were voted down and I think that would have gone a long way to cleaning up the forum and improving the quality for everyone. People that just want to argue would be discouraged if their posts never get seen in the first place.

Also I should note I've joined another forum quite recently and I post more there now because there's no flamewars and people there are mature and can discuss technology without making the product they use the definition of their personality.