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Posted

Sony and, I think, MS especially want us to use their game systems not only to play games but as media device which stream content and play our physical media. I was just wondering if people thought Microsoft would include a blu-ray player in the next xbox?

I know some people would think it is out of the question, but if Microsoft really wants to sell this point about being a true part of the home entertainment system, is it entirely unlikely they'd include one? Also, will the amount of content in the next gen of games make DVD as a medium obsolete in favour of the larger capacity blu-ray discs.

Just wondering.
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Posted

Blu-ray is just as dead as DVD.

Digital / Cloud is the way forward.
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Posted

I think really MS will have to go with Blu-ray or include a hard drive with every console. I don't see them creating their own media for the next console.
I would be very surprised if they went completely digital for the next generation as i think it is too soon. Not everyone has a fast enough connection or the bandwidth to use these services. Saying that it will probably be late 2013 when we see. So things might have changed by then.
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Posted

[quote name='Crisps' timestamp='1339508491' post='594927715']
Blu-ray is just as dead as DVD.

Digital / Cloud is the way forward.
[/quote]

No that completely screws the huge amount of people that don't care about Live or don't have internet hooked up to it altogether. Very very bad decision if they took away physical media.

I'm sure they will either license Blu-ray, or they will create their own proprietary high density format. I'm thinking the latter is more likely.
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Posted

[quote name='Crisps' timestamp='1339508491' post='594927715']
Blu-ray is just as dead as DVD.

Digital / Cloud is the way forward.
[/quote]

Not anytime soon with the bandwidth limitations and caps currently in place is most of the world. If I didn't pay for extra usage, just downloading Max Payne 3 would use more than half my monthly cap.

I don't think MS has any other choice than to go with Blu-Ray in their next xbox.
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Posted

DVD is definitely out if games are in the 30 - 60 GB range. Downloads are out for a lot of people at that rate too.

That said, I think MS will stay away from Bluray, and try to push their downloadable entertainment options, as it gets them more gold subscribers. So who knows how we'll get games. I still think some sort of flash memory cards would be best.
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Posted

I'd be amazed if Blu-Ray was in new XBox.

Microsoft will likely continue with their proprietary format. Digital downloads/streams will be very much encouraged, but not mandated >.<

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Posted

[quote]
Blu-ray is just as dead as DVD.

Digital / Cloud is the way forward.
[/quote]

I personally do not agree with you yet. But I think MS do ;)

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Posted

[quote name='Crisps' timestamp='1339508491' post='594927715']
Blu-ray is just as dead as DVD.

Digital / Cloud is the way forward.
[/quote]

Not everyone in the world has access to internet infrastructure to take advantage of digital/streaming services.

Are there any streaming services which can provide blu-ray quality video?


[quote name='Astra.Xtreme' timestamp='1339508747' post='594927731']
No that completely screws the huge amount of people that don't care about Live or don't have internet hooked up to it altogether. Very very bad decision if they took away physical media.

I'm sure they will either license Blu-ray, or they will create their own proprietary high density format. I'm thinking the latter is more likely.
[/quote]

If they create thier own format they won't be able to sell their product as a home ent. unit because it'll lack blu-ray playback. Would they be willing to sacrifice that? Seems at odds with their intent to encourage us to use their devices for that purpose.

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Posted

[quote name='compl3x' timestamp='1339508926' post='594927747']
Are there any streaming services which can provide blu-ray quality video?
[/quote]

There are services which stream at 1080p, which is good enough for most people. I think the "it must be of ultimate visual quality, 20.1 channel audio" crowd is pretty small these days.

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Posted

Zero chance.

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Posted

[quote name='threetonesun' timestamp='1339508859' post='594927739']
DVD is definitely out if games are in the 30 - 60 GB range. Downloads are out for a lot of people at that rate too.

That said, I think MS will stay away from Bluray, and try to push their downloadable entertainment options, as it gets them more gold subscribers. So who knows how we'll get games. I still think some sort of flash memory cards would be best.
[/quote]

Flash is incredibly expensive compared to optical discs. It costs a few pennies to press a disc, it costs several dollars for flash memory. Even with the royalties for Blu-Ray is would be way cheaper than flash. I don't think Microsoft would want to lose out on all that profit considering games are where they make their money.

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Posted

Weren't Microsoft pioneering HD-DVD in the HD-DVD vs Bluray war before HD exploded in the way it did?

Dependancy on online/cloud/streaming technologies would destroy the Xbox's appeal in many places around the world.

Take me for instance. I'm on a 4Mb/s internet connection with a 10GB month limit. That doesn't give me much for streaming.

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Posted

It's unlikely that the next Xbox will have a bluray drive. With Microsoft's push to digital media and even in Windows 8 providing no native DVD support, I highly doubt they would pay for the costs to get a bluray drive and decoder in there.

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Posted

[quote name='Astra.Xtreme' timestamp='1339508747' post='594927731']
No that completely screws the huge amount of people that don't care about Live or don't have internet hooked up to it altogether. Very very bad decision if they took away physical media.

I'm sure they will either license Blu-ray, or they will create their own proprietary high density format. I'm thinking the latter is more likely.
[/quote]

Proprietary media really isn't Microsoft's thing. I just can't imagine them doing that. Particularly considering they want this to be an entertainment device, and in order to be that, it would need to be able to play Blurays... Doing so on a proprietary drive would be unnecessarily complex when they could just go with Bluray (And take advantage of all of the R&D that has already gone into that format)...

I really don't see a way around Microsoft having a Bluray drive in the next XBox. They didn't have a Bluray drive in the 360 because they were betting on HDDVD. Bluray won. Now that's the format that they are just going to need to support. Not to mention they have pushed the XBox as an HD experience. To do so they need to support HD Movies (Bluray). They are pushing it as an entertainment device that they want in the living room. To do that they need to be able to play movies in the currently used format (Bluray). They are going to need more space for games, something Bluray would provide at a much more economical cost to developing a proprietary format. Disc creation would be much more economical if Bluray was used as opposed to something they whipped up as well... All roads lead to Bluray... LOL

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Posted

[quote name='giantpotato' timestamp='1339509233' post='594927771']
Flash is incredibly expensive compared to optical discs. It costs a few pennies to press a disc, it costs several dollars for flash memory. Even with the royalties for Blu-Ray is would be way cheaper than flash. I don't think Microsoft would want to lose out on all that profit considering games are where they make their money.
[/quote]

Xbox live is where MS makes their money. I don't see flash memory costs being an issue. $70 at the store, $60 to download and the cost is covered (or $60 and $50).

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Posted

So they have to pay royalties to Sony to get blu-ray support, correct? In that case I think the answer is no, they won't put blu-ray drive or next xbox.

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Posted

[quote name='M_Lyons10' timestamp='1339509746' post='594927805']
Proprietary media really isn't Microsoft's thing. I just can't imagine them doing that. Particularly considering they want this to be an entertainment device, and in order to be that, it would need to be able to play Blurays... Doing so on a proprietary drive would be unnecessarily complex when they could just go with Bluray (And take advantage of all of the R&D that has already gone into that format)...

I really don't see a way around Microsoft having a Bluray drive in the next XBox. They didn't have a Bluray drive in the 360 because they were betting on HDDVD. Bluray won. Now that's the format that they are just going to need to support. Not to mention they have pushed the XBox as an HD experience. To do so they need to support HD Movies (Bluray). They are pushing it as an entertainment device that they want in the living room. To do that they need to be able to play movies in the currently used format (Bluray). They are going to need more space for games, something Bluray would provide at a much more economical cost to developing a proprietary format. Disc creation would be much more economical if Bluray was used as opposed to something they whipped up as well... All roads lead to Bluray... LOL
[/quote]
Yeah, they didn't put a HD-DVD player in the XBox either..

Might help to know the technology.

[quote name='Emon' timestamp='1339510300' post='594927841']
So they have to pay royalties to Sony to get blu-ray support, correct? In that case I think the answer is no, they won't put blu-ray drive or next xbox.
[/quote]
They will indeed. That's the entire reason that they will work to avoid it.

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Posted

[quote name='articuno1au' timestamp='1339510473' post='594927849']
They will indeed. That's the entire reason that they will work to avoid it.
[/quote]

Do people seriously believe this? Microsoft isn't a fanboy that will avoid Sony at all costs, they will do what is best for business. Also, contrary to popular belief Blu-Ray isn't licensed entirely by Sony, It's licensed by the Blu-Ray Disc Association, which comprises a dozen companies.

Microsoft is currently licencing technology from tons of companies for things like Dolby audio and MPEG-4 Support, why would Blu-Ray be any different?
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Posted

Microsoft could use a proprietary hybrid drive: a drive that can read Blu-Rays but can also read a different format for the games (HD-DVD). That would be an anti-piracy feature since there are no HD-DVD media and burners around and that would be a good entertainment device.
Microsoft and Sony are two businesses; they know to put their differences aside and swallow their prides when they need each others.

As far as digital/cloud vs physical discs, I have a very slow connection: 2 Mb/s and only on windy days. Another ISP is proposing 2.6 Mb/s (Woohoo!). That does not prevent me from playing online but blu-ray streaming and VOD are just inaccessible to me.
It is actually faster for me to go to a shop, rent or buy a Blu-Ray and watch the movie because the download is taking longer.

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Posted

[quote name='ahhell' timestamp='1339509218' post='594927767']
Zero chance.
[/quote]

Because?...

[quote name='giantpotato' timestamp='1339511339' post='594927873']
Do people seriously believe this? Microsoft isn't a fanboy that will avoid Sony at all costs, they will do what is best for business. Also, contrary to popular belief Blu-Ray isn't licensed entirely by Sony, It's licensed by the Blu-Ray Disc Association, which comprises a dozen companies.

Microsoft is currently licencing technology from tons of companies for things like Dolby audio and MPEG-4 Support, why would Blu-Ray be any different?
[/quote]

Agreed. I doubt MS would be petty about using blu-ray just because Sony advocated it in the HD-DVD v. Blu-Ray war. It doesn't affect their ability to sell games or convince consumer to use their product over a competitor.

If there is an obvious benefit to using it, a profitable benefit, then they'd do it.
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Posted

The people who are so convinced it will not happen are really showing their true colors, plus have zero concept how business in the real world works. Do you really think MS runs their business based on some console war that was created by the gaming media? No. Competitors license technology from other competitors all of the time.

The other fact of the matter is the people who think we are somehow ready [b]as a world[/b] to go fully digital need to burst that bubble they obviously live in. Just because you have a great internet connection with no limits, does not mean the rest of the world does. Not including an option for physical media would literally exclude so many potential sales. They would simply just not do it. Perhaps they will offer a version of their next console without a drive for the people who want to go all digital, but not including any kind of drive at all? No way in hell will that happen.

So keeping the two pretty much facts in mind above, I would say the chance is extremely good they will include a BluRay player. If not a DVD player, than just as the 360 right now, it would then just be a regular old DVD player. As games are going to get continue getting larger in size.
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Posted

How's that high horse feeling gents?

When I was working for Microsoft, we asked if we would be seeing a blu-ray extension to the console like the HD-DVD drive. Whilst I don't believe all of the answer can be given, I do think I can say that licensing costs were observed as being greater than the cost of sticking with a proprietary format.

Whether this remains true or not is a completely different matter. It's also worth noting that clearly Microsoft couldn't move their games to blu-ray disks as it would mean that you would need to buy an external drive to play an XBox game. So it might have changed there as well.

That said any suggestion, like that of our esteemed moderate above, that people dissenting from his point of view are doing so for purely egotistic or fanyboyish reasons are just plain wrong.

EDIT::
To extend: Microsoft are a business. They make the decision that makes the most financial sense. When I was there, blu-ray play back was not considered a noteworthy feature of the 360 in terms of our marketing material. Thus it holds that Microsoft will not pay significantly extra just to add this feature to their console, especially if this significant extra adds to their competition. I might well be wrong, but my opinion is not baseless.

EDIT2::
[quote name='giantpotato' timestamp='1339511339' post='594927873']
Do people seriously believe this? Microsoft isn't a fanboy that will avoid Sony at all costs, they will do what is best for business. Also, contrary to popular belief Blu-Ray isn't licensed entirely by Sony, It's licensed by the Blu-Ray Disc Association, which comprises a dozen companies.

Microsoft is currently licencing technology from tons of companies for things like Dolby audio and MPEG-4 Support, why would Blu-Ray be any different?
[/quote]
No, it's not fanboyism. It's purely an economical decision. The licensing of the disks was an enormous cost for Microsoft. That's why they will work to avoid it.

EDIT3::
[quote name='Vykranth' timestamp='1339511960' post='594927901']
Microsoft could use a proprietary hybrid drive: a drive that can read Blu-Rays but can also read a different format for the games (HD-DVD). That would be an anti-piracy feature since there are no HD-DVD media and burners around and that would be a good entertainment device.
Microsoft and Sony are two businesses; they know to put their differences aside and swallow their prides when they need each others.

As far as digital/cloud vs physical discs, I have a very slow connection: 2 Mb/s and only on windy days. Another ISP is proposing 2.6 Mb/s (Woohoo!). That does not prevent me from playing online but blu-ray streaming and VOD are just inaccessible to me.
It is actually faster for me to go to a shop, rent or buy a Blu-Ray and watch the movie because the download is taking longer.
[/quote]
Unfortunately the technologies involved with the disks does not give itself to this use. It would, however, be an outstanding idea :)

You are in the same position as me. I'm on 8mbps with a faulty DSLAM at the end of my line that my ISP's upstream provider refuses to fix. Microsoft are very aware of how much of the market they would lose to a pure digital distribution system. That said, they will certainly work towards it :)

I like your post. It's constructive and well thought out.

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Posted

[quote name='articuno1au' timestamp='1339513832' post='594927981']
How's that high horse feeling gents?

When I was working for Microsoft, we asked if we would be seeing a blu-ray extension to the console like the HD-DVD drive. Whilst I don't believe all of the answer can be given, I do think I can say that licensing costs were observed as being greater than the cost of sticking with a proprietary format.

Whether this remains true or not is a completely different matter. It's also worth noting that clearly Microsoft couldn't move their games to blu-ray disks as it would mean that you would need to buy an external drive to play an XBox game. So it might have changed there as well.

That said any suggestion, like that of our esteemed moderate above, that people dissenting from his point of view are doing so for purely egotistic or fanyboyish reasons are just plain wrong.

EDIT::
To extend: Microsoft are a business. They make the decision that makes the most financial sense. When I was there, blu-ray play back was not considered a noteworthy feature of the 360 in terms of our marketing material. Thus it holds that Microsoft will not pay significantly extra just to add this feature to their console, especially if this significant extra adds to their competition. I might well be wrong, but my opinion is not baseless.

EDIT2::

No, it's not fanboyism. It's purely an economical decision. The licensing of the disks was an enormous cost for Microsoft. That's why they will work to avoid it.

EDIT3::

Unfortunately the technologies involved with the disks does not give itself to this use. It would, however, be an outstanding idea :)

You are in the same position as me. I'm on 8mbps with a faulty DSLAM at the end of my line that my ISP's upstream provider refuses to fix. Microsoft are very aware of how much of the market they would lose to a pure digital distribution system. That said, they will certainly work towards it :)

I like your post. It's constructive and well thought out.
[/quote] Your post only takes into account the facts from Microsoft's decision 6 years ago. Between then and now the cost of manufacturing a Blu-Ray drive has dropped significantly, Blu-Ray as a movie format has doubled in popularity several times over and games have grown beyond the capacity of a DVD. At the time a standalone Blu-Ray add-on player would not make financial sense because it could only be used for the small catalog of movies available.

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Posted

If only I didn't want to continue to work for large corporations..

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