microsoft surface Surface and Metro: This party's just gettin' started.

[ahhell]

So this tablet will only run a certain amount of applications. Shame.

The cheap version, yes. It's meant for an entirely different market than the Pro.

I'm sure someone will come out with some kind of x86 emulator though.

[TDT]

Since this is Windows RT/ARM, can it run normal games? (Steam games etc.)

The Pro version can.

[.Neo]

Consider Windows 8 RT the equivalent of Apple iOS. It's only made for Metro apps and selected desktop apps (i.e. Office 2013). All it needs is a decent selection of Metro-style apps at launch, and this could be a success, full Windows experience or not.

What it needs is the removal of the legacy desktop and Microsoft actually putting some effort in Microsoft Office for Metro.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Since this is Windows RT/ARM, can it run normal games? (Steam games etc.)

If not, it's not really a "full Windows PC".

There are two versions, one for RT and one for Windows 8 Pro which is x86. I doubt very much that it will have a discrete GPU, probably the Intel HD4000 so no Steam gaming.

[Denis W. Veteran]

The cheap version, yes. It's meant for an entirely different market than the Pro.

I'm sure someone will come out with some kind of x86 emulator though.

I'm more leaning towards someone breaking the artificial lock placed against desktop ARM apps (perhaps only Microsoft signed binaries are allowed to run in the desktop) than an emulator. Even if you have an emulator you need to get access to the desktop for starters.

[Rudy]

I'm more leaning towards someone breaking the artificial lock placed against desktop ARM apps (perhaps only Microsoft signed binaries are allowed to run in the desktop) than an emulator. Even if you have an emulator you need to get access to the desktop for starters.

But then you'll still need new exes that are compiled for ARM

[~Johnny]

There are two versions, one for RT and one for Windows 8 Pro which is x86. I doubt very much that it will have a discrete GPU, probably the Intel HD4000 so no Steam gaming.

Intel HD 4000 can comfortably run most modern games by itself at 720p, mid settings - so the Pro tablet could very well handle nearly anything on Steam perfectly well for a machine of it's size and form.

[Denis W. Veteran]

But then you'll still need new exes that are compiled for ARM

Right, but what I'm reading about Windows RT is not only does Microsoft not provide support for compiling binaries for ARM desktops, but they won't allow them to run.

Get around a lock and someone will eventually produce a compiler for ARM. It'll most likely be limited to open source and hobbyist tools, or at the very least, the desktop browsers.

[Rudy]

Right, but what I'm reading about Windows RT is not only does Microsoft not provide support for compiling binaries for ARM desktops, but they won't allow them to run.

Get around a lock and someone will eventually produce a compiler for ARM. It'll most likely be limited to open source and hobbyist tools.

Like you said, I'm sure someone will come up with a "cydia" equivalent, BUT it will only support apps that the author specifically compiles for ARM (which might not be very many)

[Dot Matrix]

Since this is Windows RT/ARM, can it run normal games? (Steam games etc.)

If not, it's not really a "full Windows PC".

The Pro version will. It's x64.

[CentralDogma]

I'd pay $200 for one to replace my aging laptop.

[Denis W. Veteran]

Intel HD 4000 can comfortably run most modern games by itself at 720p, mid-high settings - so the Pro tablet could very well handle nearly anything on Steam perfectly well for a machine of it's size and form.

Or who knows, maybe Nvidia has an ION successor (or something more powerful) in the works. They could squeeze in Optimus in there while they're at it.

[Denis W. Veteran]

Like you said, I'm sure someone will come up with a "cydia" equivalent, BUT it will only support apps that the author specifically compiles for ARM (which might not be very many)

Which would be a decent compromise, and yes very much like Cydia. Let those who know what they're doing fool around with their devices and keep everyone else at bay.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

still would like to see more tablets drop below $400 or even $300, as you can buy a cheap laptop for $500 making the tablets seem less worth it for having less features

I just bought the 7" samsung tablet the other day and it's completely worth it for the price, i personally wouldn't want to spend much more on a tablet than the $249 that i did

[.Neo]

still would like to see more tablets drop below $400 or even $300, as you can buy a cheap laptop for $500 making the tablets seem less worth it for having less features

The portability plays a huge role. Cheap notebooks tend to be really bulky and frequently aren't really that good at running stuff.

[argonite]

still would like to see more tablets drop below $400 or even $300, as you can buy a cheap laptop for $500 making the tablets seem less worth it for having less features

I just bought the 7" samsung tablet the other day and it's completely worth it for the price, i personally wouldn't want to spend much more on a tablet than the $249 that i did

Remember that with a tablet, you're not just paying for a laptop, but also for:

- smaller, lighter form factor

- usually better battery life

- multitouch surface

Laptops and tablets cater to different markets, but there is some overlap.

[Dot Matrix]

The portability plays a huge role. Cheap notebooks tend to be really bulky and frequently aren't really that good at running stuff.

Not to mention, the life expectancy isn't that long.

[DeadEndAccount]

My gf wants one after watching all the material, I do as well. We own an ipad, netbooks, and a htpc/desktop pc. The surface pro, if we got one, would probably be used more than, if not replace, all three. Bravo Microsoft.

I could see the same thing happening for my parents and my sister - I still need a fully kitted out computer (Creative Suite etc) but my parents and my sister spend pretty much all their time on three main applications: Web browser, email and office which can all be done on the Windows RT device.

[derkim]

I don't see really the new in Surface. Sure, It looks pretty, small and nice but this is nothing what didn't other companies shown before (Samsung, Asus). So I don't see the wow-effect. Finally the price the price will decide the success of Surface.

[remixedcat]

I hope they have a decent media player for the RT version or that will give me a huge sad. I want something like media jukebox on the go.

features I want in it:

DSP/EQ

Full tag editor

"add as next to play"

export ind. playlists

playlist to folder

folder to playlist

display real time bitrate (when it changes as in VBR it will update with real time bitrate)

customizable display fields

total playlist time on status bar or other area.

[Dashel]

Can't wait. I've been wondering if MS would play the hardware/software game. Suck on those Apples.

[Order_66]

The tablet looks great, even metro looks to be right at home on a tablet, I just don't see any compelling reason to ditch either my iPad or xoom to get this but if I didn't already own them both and they were sitting beside the surface in the store I would certainly consider the surface if it runs as good as it looks.

[BajiRav]

Really hope the Touch/Type covers will be solid and not a $50 accessory. Unfortunate it only has 1USB and 128GB of storage but they're probably pushing touch and SkyDrive so that might've been a conscious decisions.

Both Surfaces also have SD cards FWIW

And then he can't even get to the Internet Explorer tab bar. :laugh: Afterwards it just crashes totally and he has to get another one out.

i kinda felt sorry for him, you could see him thinking "oh ****, please work".

other than that im looking forward to playing around with one.

I am surprised that they didn't edit it out like that certain other company does. :shifty:

Just finished watching the keynote and it basically confirmed what I already thought: the hardware and touch cover look absolutely amazing. Windows 8 on the other hand offers anything but a smooth experience and screws up on many occasions. Having to switch to the legacy desktop for Office is just insane on a tablet. I know the OS isn't final yet, but it isn't exactly far off from being so either.

I think on RT, if you don't use Office - you will stay in metro all the time and then it's as smooth as any other tablet OS. The limitation is Office 2013 which they will hopefully update soon to metro (most probably next Office though).

Kick ass hardware overall, really truly impressed by the hardware so far (although the RT version not being 1080p may ultimately hurt it IMO), but seems they are keeping their tradition of implementing awful launch strategies.

They are basically saying the pro version will be available "3 months after the release of Windows 8," which means they could very well miss a holiday launch.

Keeping this in mind, the next version of the iPad is then right around the corner.

Really poor decision on their behalf to launch the pro version like that. I am guessing they had no choice and it all comes down to manufacturing, but really not the best strategy. Will see if it winds up hurting them or not, but so far, it is a very rocky start IMO.

I think it is being delayed to keep Dell, HP and others happy. The Pro version should be the easiest to get out as the software side is very mature unlike Windows RT.

[George P Global Moderator]

For those who bring up the Pro version coming 3 months after the RT one, I think this was done not because of any hardware problems but because MS wants to let it's OEM partners release their own x86 tablets/convertibles/hybrids first before it does. If you go back to what we saw out of computex then the majority of new stuff coming to market later this year is x86-64, with only some early prototypes running on ARM that no one could even hold in their hands!

It seems to me that come Windows 8 RTM that MS Surface will be the first ARM device to hit the market while the rest do x86 and then we see Surface Pro after them. This way the OEMs don't toss a fit though honestly, this should just help them as well. MS will market tablets more now and there is still room out there for others to make their own thing. Right now there's just 10.6" Surface, so OEMs can do 7" and 13" devices, and so on.

[Anthonyd]

I'd pay $200 for one to replace my aging laptop.

You forgot a zero, right?

There's no way to see them priced at $200.