116 posts in this topic

I get that the surface is a competitive tablet to the iPad. But the way I feel, I don't even like my iPad that much anymore because it's so useless. I can't do anything of substance on it. It's just a way to consume information a window if you will. It isn't so great at actually producing any kind of content. Not just due to the input method (touch screen) but because of the apps being so dumb and so unaware of eachother. It is difficult to move something you're working on from one app to another in a non-destructive format. It isn't like I can take a .psd from my desktop and modify it on my iPad or something like that you know?

And I feel that although the surface tries to fix many of my complaints with my iPad by giving us a physical keyboard it still has other limitations that make me question the whole tablet ecosystem. I just think I can be much more productive with a mouse and keyboard on a laptop designed to be a laptop and not a device like the surface which is straddling the line between portable tablet and make-shift notebook. And keep in mind that Microsoft have said to a number of publications that the Surface Pro (the only one that can run x86 software and has a desktop environment usable by 3rd party software) will cost the same as an Ultrabook. That is very expensive when I could just buy an ultrabook anyway and use it for a lot more stuff.

And if I got the iPad priced one the ARM based Surface then I'm basically stuck with the same software complaints I have with the iPad in that the apps don't feel very advanced and aren't that aware of eachother etc.

I'm not putting the surface down for entering the tablet market. I just think the tablet market is something I'm no longer interested in after owning an iPad for about a year. I guess I've had my fill of this whole category of device and now I'm much more inclined to just buy a new Notebook. An ultrabook in fact.

So for all these reasons I'm just underwhelmed by the surface now that I've had time to think about it in more depth since the unveiling. But this isn't unique to the Surface I'd feel the same way if Apple introduced a new iPad.

I think I understand where you're coming from. I didn't take full consideration for the Pro version and it's ability to run x86 software, it has it's niche. But for the price of a Ultrabook? The ultrabook wins (for me) hands down! But some people may have x86 apps that they'd love to go from PC to their Surface Pro and keep working.

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I do not agree with the idea that serious work cant be done on a tablet. I've already given a lot of examples in the past of companies, writers, artists and designers doing their work on tablets.

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I do not agree with the idea that serious work cant be done on a tablet. I've already given a lot of examples in the past of companies, writers, artists and designers doing their work on tablets.

I never said it can't be done. Only that it is cumbersome and annoying. I'm a lot more productive on my desktop first and then my notebook second. The iPad would be furthest from those two.

But I do want to point out there is just some stuff you can't do on these tablets. You can't for example edit 4K video, you can't make vector based graphics, you can't test your software on it for another platform.

I can for example run an Android, iOS or Metro based application on my PC/Mac for testing it but I can't run a Windows based application on my iPad after I've written it there. I can't compile it there and run it. There are a whole host of fields where the Notebook/Desktop can do it with ease but the Tablets just can't the software doesn't exist or the hardware is too inferior to support the software that could enable the above examples.

And for other fields like photo editors and such you have to make a lot of concessions. You can't easily modify your 14 Mega pixel images from your DSLR on your tablet. Not just because the screen is so tiny but because some of the software to do so doesn't even support those sized images. After-all the tablets only have 512MB to 2GB of Memory.

But I'm not talking in absolutes, some tablets can do some of these things.

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you can't make vector based graphics

You can, at least on the iPad, but that's beside the point.

I understand your point but I think you're looking at tablets from the wrong angle. Instead of comparing a set of apps and characteristics between tablets and pcs you need to understand tablets are not pcs. That means that, as you said, pcs can do a lot of things tablets cant, but that's because tablets shouldnt. Like wise tablets can do things pcs cant, mainly because their versatility. Allow me to cite some examples, both personal (and direct) and witnessed:

- Sometimes, as I need to do a presentation for my students or coworkers or curators, there's simply no space to comfortably accommodate a laptop (You would be surprised by the meager classroom sizes in a third world country like mexico, even in the best universities). In this case my tablet it's completely useful as is lighter and smaller than any laptop and I dont have to carry any accessories (like a mouse, I hate trackpads, oddly I love touchscreens). Likewise it's a lot easier to travel around with a tablet instead of carrying a heavy laptop.

- I have visited companies that have integrated tablets very tightly into their workflow. A tablet is easier to carry and use as a notebook while standing than a laptop. You could say "well, then why dont use a paper notebook?" and well... a notebook cant connect to a company network and share necessary data on the go.

- Some of my friends are writers and they tell me that tablets are godsend on the go. Sometimes on the bus, the train or an airplane a laptop can be cumbersome and awkward to position in a comfortable way. A tablet is more natural, it's screen always facing you, lighter and slimmer.

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It's what Windows 8/Windows RT (and the whole Metro UI) was developed for. It's the other piece of the puzzle.

this was my reaction to surface..we now know why ms has been willing to alienate its main customer base....pretty pathetic...we are witnessing the end of windows as the dominant platform...they won't survive this sadly..

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this was my reaction to surface..we now know why ms has been willing to alienate its main customer base....pretty pathetic...we are witnessing the end of windows as the dominant platform...they won't survive this sadly..

Sorry but that's naive.

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You can, at least on the iPad, but that's beside the point.

I understand your point but I think you're looking at tablets from the wrong angle. Instead of comparing a set of apps and characteristics between tablets and pcs you need to understand tablets are not pcs. That means that, as you said, pcs can do a lot of things tablets cant, but that's because tablets shouldnt. Like wise tablets can do things pcs cant, mainly because their versatility.

I get what you're saying but I don't think I am looking at tablets from the wrong angle. They are mostly consumption devices and they aren't good for producing work. I've used one for a year and nothing I do can be easily translated in to an iPad. I don't work in a school with so little room that a notebook won't fit on a desk. I'm not a writer and my business needs powerful notebooks which is what everyone takes to meetings for writing notes on. No one takes a tablet. But this is just my life I'm not saying it's right and everyone should do things this way I'm just saying that for me I'm over the tablet fad and I'm ready to get down to real work on a real computer.

For that reason I won't be buying a surface tablet or buying a new iPad. I will however be buying an Ultrabook.

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Tablets are for 99% a stupid thing because 99% of people buy it for no reason.

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I'm over the tablet fad and I'm ready to get down to real work on a real computer.

So the work i just listed is not real? :huh:

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So the work i just listed is not real? :huh:

You must have missed the part where I said I'm not a writer and I don't work in a 3rd world countries school system I guess.

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You must have missed the part where I said I'm not a writer and I don't work in a 3rd world countries school system I guess.

I didn't, just found that statement condescending.

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I didn't, just found that statement condescending.

I don't know why you would. I wasn't saying being a writer or working in a school isn't real work. What I'm saying is, the work I do is best done on a desktop/notebook and not on a tablet. I can't do real work (my work) on a tablet.

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Sorry but that's naive.

remember that when in 2 years ms is scrambling to bring win 9 to market touting its classic look and feel ;-)

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tablets are at best a companion device...

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tablets are at best a companion device...

This is how I feel.

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I don't know why you would. I wasn't saying being a writer or working in a school isn't real work. What I'm saying is, the work I do is best done on a desktop/notebook and not on a tablet. I can't do real work (my work) on a tablet.

Fair enough. I misunderstood.

remember that when in 2 years ms is scrambling to bring win 9 to market touting its classic look and feel ;-)

How could they if they, in your words, are not going to survive Windows 8?

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that's how the overwhelming majority consumers feel as well....stunning that ms doesn't know it

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Well, because - comparing with surface pro... 1. Most other tablets have ****ty build quality. 2. Most are underpowered (even iPad considering this one has a ivy bridge processor) 3. Most of the keypads available are not 3mm thin and are bulky. 4. Most do not have USB ports. The pro version has USB 3. This is a big advantage. 5. This has a full fledged Windows 8 pro OS loaded. Can do almost anything that can be dne on a desktop. 6. Working would be a lot easier considering the keypad. Typing on touch screen is horrible compared to a keyboard.

1. Agee but we haven't seen the build quality of the Surface yet - remember the 360 and those wonderful red rings.

2. Again we haven't seen it in action but I hope it has some grunt :)

3. But there are some good keyboards out there.

4. Agree

5. Yes but would you really want to give up a desktop for a small 10" screen

6. Agree

This isn't going to replace a notebook or ultra book easily for serious work. How are you going to use on your lap with that keyboard which by the look of it needs a flat surface.

While it will be a nice machine I suspect it will be a niche product.

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that's how the overwhelming majority consumers feel as well....stunning that ms doesn't know it

I think even if Windows 8 is a failure it wont kill Microsoft. It's not as if they are buying 10 billion dollars worth of optical discs in anticipation of windows 8 being a blockbuster. They will have more than enough cash to push out Windows 9. And again this is just under the circumstance Windows 8 is a failure. I personally hate it but I've hated things before that went on to be blockbusters.

Something else to think about is Microsoft is bigger than just Windows they have their toes in a lot of different areas their products span multiple categories including gaming with the XBOX their huge cloud infrastructure that competes with EC2 and Skype among many others. One blow on the desktop wouldn't kill them.

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that's how the overwhelming majority consumers feel as well....stunning that ms doesn't know it

I'm just saying that it's naive to think that if Windows 8 fails it will drive the company to the ground. They have survived worst disasters (Windows 98(Non-SE), Windows ME, the whole thing with the DoJ) and in times where they weren't as strong as they are now.

I tend to agree that Windows 8 will be problematic and find strong opposition, but I dont think it will be Microsoft's demise.

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we still will be fiddling with drivers, etc.

Have not 'fiddled' with drivers since Windows 7.

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Just wondering... How much money have you spent into the Apple ecosystem? At what point would you be willing to switch?

I think that Microsoft has taken one of the biggest risks in the company's history with Metro. They are betting everything on it: Windows, Office, Windows Phone, Xbox and their cloud services.

I'm sure you can look at my signature and figure it out but I don't see how that is relevant here. If rumors are correct, $599 for Surface is $250 more than what I paid for my iPad 2 (refurb). And I use my iPad for so many things, its more than paid for itself already (hell, being able to attach the thing to a headrest so my kid can watch videos on car trips...priceless! :laugh: ) To get Ivy Bridge you would have to buy the Pro for $1,000. You can get an Ivy Bridge Air for same price.

I'll throw this out there: since we don't know for sure whether the keyboard cover is included in the price or not, is Surface on its own the big game changer some folks are making it out to be?

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I agree with the OP, could care less what Microsoft does. But of course this is a Microsoft website, so our opinions are drown out by all the a$$ kissing.

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I agree with the OP, could care less what Microsoft does. But of course this is a Microsoft website, so our opinions are drown out by all the a$$ kissing.

Then what are you doing here? Aside the obvious "because you can".

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