From UFO disbeliever to believer

[pmrd]

UFO = Unidentified Flying Object.....not aliens. Even in this video you posted Michio Kaku stated we don't have the evidence. Im wondering if you just typed UFO into youtube and pulled the first video of someone famous being interviewed for the hell of it.

If we are able to build crafts that can defy the laws of physics then someone else from another planet can. So yes proof of UFO is somewhat proof of aliens.

[jrolson85]

UFOs = Unmaned government test drones...

[pmrd]

UFOs = Unmaned government test drones...

So you are telling me the government have been building test drones for thousands of years?

[mudslag]

If we are able to build crafts that can defy the laws of physics then someone else from another planet can. So yes proof of UFO is somewhat proof of aliens.

LOL no, no that doesn't somewhat mean proof of aliens. That's like trying to argue that because we sent men to the moon in 1969 that somehow equates to mean that humans should have had that ability in 1429. Your logic is beyond flawed.

You still fail to grasp that just because someone claimed to have seen a craft defy the laws of physics, that such a craft even exists. Again this comes down to hard facts, not what someone else thinks they saw.

[abecedarian paradoxious]

Statistically speaking, if a civilization exists with the technology to get here, they have done so already.

If they have figured out how to bypass the laws of physics, they could be anywhere and everywhere at once.

So, why not believe in extra-terrestrial beings?

On the other hand, if they have such advanced technology, they could be here without us knowing.

IF they pop in and out and pique our curiosities, we're the cat in their Schrodinger's Box.

We are the particles whose state cannot be determined without observation. Interesting thought....

[pmrd]

LOL no, no that doesn't somewhat mean proof of aliens. That's like trying to argue that because we sent men to the moon in 1969 that somehow equates to mean that humans should have had that ability in 1429. Your logic is beyond flawed.

Hmm no

[mudslag]

Hmm no

Then by all means explain how "defy the laws of physics" equates to aliens?

You should know, Im not arguing that aliens don't exist, Im stating there is ZERO PROOF of their existence here.

[pmrd]

Then by all means explain how "defy the laws of physics" equates to aliens?

You should know, Im not arguing that aliens don't exist, Im stating there is ZERO PROOF of their existence here.

If you can defy the laws of physics somehow then you could travel from a solar system to another. As far as I know the laws of physics are the only thing preventing us from doing so.

[compl3x]

I was trained in the sciences in a strictly academic orthodox manner.

I hold a bachelor?s of science in zoology with a minor in chemistry and a master?s in biocultural anthropology, both degrees obtained at Oregon State University ? as orthodox a science institution there ever was. I then taught physical anthropology at this same university for seven years.

Paranormal phenomena, including UFOs and alien abductions, were anathema to me. I could not fit them into my naturalistic worldview.

'''

UFOs and aliens wouldn't be paranormal if they existed. Aliens that evolved on some other planet would be part of their natural environment in the same way we are part of our natural environment.

It's also interesting his background isn't in physics, astrophysics, astronomy, exobiology or any other discipline which could help his credibility along.

First, my academic background simply would not allow it psychologically. UFOs were hallucinations, mass hysteria or some other conveniently explainable occurrence. Alien abduction experiences were the result of childhood trauma, possibly physical and sexual abuse.

Second, even if I wanted to explore the paranormal, I could not and dare not because of the restrictive intellectual atmosphere of collegiate academia. People lose their jobs for talking ?crazy talk?!

It's called crazy talk because when people are trained in the conventional ways of investigating an idea start using logical fallacies, anecdotal evidence, appeals to emotion, etc. it is embarrassing to watch.

But then something happened in late January 2007 that challenged my worldview and my strict scientific interpretation of the natural universe. My best friend of 30 years saw a UFO. Not a far-off, hazy blinking light or a midnight vision from a half-remembered dream but an actual UFO.

He was close enough to see it in some detail: a black triangle with strobe lights that flew low over his house and emitted a deep droning sound that rattled the windows. His wife and young son had witnessed it first flying over downtown south Salem heading toward the Willamette River. She called him on her cell and told him a UFO was moving in his direction. Several people were stopped on the street corner, watching as the strange triangular object floated slowly by low overhead.

My father told me of a UFO sighting he and his grandfather had in what must have been October or November of 1957. They were watching the skies of Eastern Washington for the Sputnik satellite to pass by. But they didn?t see the tiny point of light that went ?beep? on the radio. Instead, they saw two bright blue objects flying in formation from one side of the horizon to the other at an impossibly fast speed. They were well acquainted with military aircraft and these objects were like nothing they had seen before. Besides, there was no sonic boom.

Then my daughter saw a UFO in the summer of 2009. We were reading a bedtime story when she interrupted me and told me to look out the window. By the time I put the book down and looked, the object was gone. I quickly got her some pens and a writing pad. I noted the date and time and the direction she indicated the object had been moving. Then I had her draw it. I asked her about size in relation to distance, and she declared that it had been big, much too large to be an aircraft.

Besides, her drawing looked nothing like an aircraft. My daughter had never been given to exaggeration or fibs, so I knew she was reporting the truth. Had she imagined it? No, absolutely not.

Entirely anecdotal and hearsay. Science doesn't use anecdotal or hearsay evidence because it can't be corroborated.

First year high school kids are taught this stuff.

Now my closest friends, my dad and my daughter had all witnessed UFOs. These were not figments of the imagination. They were physically real objects. How could I not believe them? How would I feel if I had seen a UFO and they didn?t believe me? I would feel betrayed, of course.

Confusing emotion with a sincere pursuit of evidence. That is called bias. "I love my wife and she said she saw the ghost of her late father, so I believe her". Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be considered betrayal. That is essentially emotional blackmail - believe what I say or else I will think poorly of you.

Suddenly I had an epiphany. I had crossed over into a new worldview and there was no turning back. This was undeniable believability.

How low is this persons threshold for epiphanies?

I do not believe in UFOs. I accept their physical existence in natural reality. UFOs are real. We may not know what they are; but whatever they are, they exist in the natural universe. I prefer not to consider them paranormal. They are absolutely normal. The scientific question is, normal what? This question is my passion.

Does this last bit confuse anyone else besides me? He does, but doesn't, believe in UFO... which he says exist in natural reality... wtf?

[mudslag]

If you can defy the laws of physics somehow then you could travel from a solar system to another. As far as I know the laws of physics are the only thing preventing us from doing so.

Just curious who stated that the laws of physics are the only thing preventing us from traveling the galaxy? As far as I know, our technology is our main limitation. Hell Voyager 1 is on the cusp of leaving our solar system right now being the first man made object to leave it. Here is a tid bit that suggest we could reach our closest star in 85 yrs off Nuclear Pulse Propulsion.

But still none of this still equates aliens. Still waiting on your explanation.

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

But contact has happened.

You cannot prove that to anyone including yourself; thus, you cannot reasonably state it with certainty.

[jrolson85]

[hdca18]

Einstein said it best

"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge." -Albert Einstein

Having blind faith in your chosen leaders on certain issues that do not serve to benefit the Gov't leads you into questionable territory.

For example, do you think the total public debt in the U.S. is what the Government admits? ?

[James Rose]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

an open question to all, to continue to this discussion. What would it take for YOU to believe, without doubt, that aliens exist?

Would it be enough for the US government to acknowledge them? obviously another "lesser" government's claim would be met with disdain...

Would you have to see, or meet, an alien with your own eyes? would seeing one on tv suffice?

I guess my point is, there would always be people that would say they arent real, even if the above questions were met. Obama could do a live press conference w/ an alien named Blork, and people would just assume it's a person in a costume or some CGI...

[jerzdawg]

an open question to all, to continue to this discussion. What would it take for YOU to believe, without doubt, that aliens exist?

Would it be enough for the US government to acknowledge them? obviously another "lesser" government's claim would be met with disdain...

Would you have to see, or meet, an alien with your own eyes? would seeing one on tv suffice?

I guess my point is, there would always be people that would say they arent real, even if the above questions were met. Obama could do a live press conference w/ an alien named Blork, and people would just assume it's a person in a costume or some CGI...

I only need the most basic of things. Proof with my own eyes, up close and able to touch it. People's saying they saw it, or people posting a blurry picture from 100 miles away does nothing for me. Why are all of the pictures we see blurry, grainy, out of focus. Cell phone cameras we fairly well advanced that we should have some better pictures at this point. I am not saying they dont exist, but I refuse to say they do exist.

[episode]

I only need the most basic of things. Proof with my own eyes, up close and able to touch it. People's saying they saw it, or people posting a blurry picture from 100 miles away does nothing for me. Why are all of the pictures we see blurry, grainy, out of focus. Cell phone cameras we fairly well advanced that we should have some better pictures at this point. I am not saying they dont exist, but I refuse to say they do exist.

That is exactly why I no longer believe they've visited Earth. With the prevalence of camera, camcorders, phones, surveillance, etc - there should be undeniable proof. There isn't.

[Bryan R.]

That is exactly why I no longer believe they've visited Earth. With the prevalence of camera, camcorders, phones, surveillance, etc - there should be undeniable proof. There isn't.

[mudslag]

an open question to all, to continue to this discussion. What would it take for YOU to believe, without doubt, that aliens exist?

Would it be enough for the US government to acknowledge them? obviously another "lesser" government's claim would be met with disdain...

Would you have to see, or meet, an alien with your own eyes? would seeing one on tv suffice?

I guess my point is, there would always be people that would say they arent real, even if the above questions were met. Obama could do a live press conference w/ an alien named Blork, and people would just assume it's a person in a costume or some CGI...

I think the simple answer would be something that is globally accepted as real evidence and not something that can be easily written off. As of yet, nothing even remotely like that has been found.

[exotoxic]

I am certain intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe, i don't see why they should be more technically advanced than us though.

If they have visited earth and have contact with governments (especially the USA) what power do the governments hold over them that prevents them from fully revealing themselves?? I am sure they could use our satellites to interrupt TV services world wide and broadcast a messages, creating (imo) undeniable proof.

[Twiddle]

Honestly, I do believe without a doubt aliens exist. The universe is just to vast for there to not be at least one of race of species out there on a planet somewhere. They don't have to be an "intelligent' race/species either. But I undoubtedly believe there is a living species on another planet.

Now, if the question you are asking, is specifically entailing, "Do you without a doubt believe aliens exist and have visited Earth?" Then that is a whole matter entirely different. My gut tells me no, but my wild imagination says, "maybe?" :)

[mudslag]

I am certain intelligent life exists somewhere in the universe, i don't see why they should be more technically advanced than us though.

Why couldn't they be more technically advanced then us, specially if they are much older?

[exotoxic]

Why couldn't they be more technically advanced then us, specially if they are much older?

They could. It seems as though everyone expects that they are much older and be more technically advanced but i don't see why that should be the case. Distribution of resources is something to consider also, here on earth not everything is found everywhere. What if they live on a planet that lacks a certain resource?? which leads me on to something i found hard to research using google, do all solid planets contain the same things as on earth, for example does titanium exist on all solid planets (you could replace titanium with something exotic)?? do some planets contain undiscovered compounds that could be used to crate (super) materials or fuels.

maybe the last part does not belong in this section :laugh:

[compl3x]

an open question to all, to continue to this discussion. What would it take for YOU to believe, without doubt, that aliens exist?

Would it be enough for the US government to acknowledge them? obviously another "lesser" government's claim would be met with disdain...

Would you have to see, or meet, an alien with your own eyes? would seeing one on tv suffice?

I guess my point is, there would always be people that would say they arent real, even if the above questions were met. Obama could do a live press conference w/ an alien named Blork, and people would just assume it's a person in a costume or some CGI...

If aliens existed there would be multiple way to verify it. Any one thing wouldn't be enough. Even if Obama himself (idk why it always has to be an American/U.S. govt. Why couldn't it be an Australian Leader? Or an Italian, French, Chinese, Russian, etc.?) came out and said "hey d00dz, aliens exist!" He'd have to provide empirical, corroborating evidence.

Genetic/DNA sequencing I imagine would be a huge part. That would show that the creature wasn't just a human in disguise. Those tests would be done over-and-over again in different, secure locations to reduce the likelihood of a hoax or conspiracy. Then how the alien got here. If it travelled by craft it could be investigated by scientists and engineers to ascertain the technology wasn't human. That would be another given. Astronomy and astrophysics would be involved. Where the alien came from in the universe, how exactly it got and and by what method. There would be a lot of avenues which could be checked and compared to verify it was legit. If it didn't add up, people might consider other alternatives.

I wouldn't believe it immediately, but if evidence started to mount from different, independent sources with reliable testing methods I would start to change my position.

[SYBINX]

Tell me what you actually seen again in great detail.