Atheist files complaint over Lancaster County restaurant's church-bulle


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As an atheist you can just not go to that establishment. Just as you have the freedom to be an atheist in this country the resteraunt owner has the freedom to give a discount to whom he wants. You can still eat there just not with a discount.

..not only that...but all he has to do is (first visit the damn restaurant :woot: )...then just pick up a current church bulletin,there is nothing about being a member of a church. I bet this atheist has no issue with picking up a lost 5 dollar bill with 'In God We Trust' stamped on it.

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After all, athiest believe is when you die, nothing happens. Why do they care whats on a gravestone.

Your contempt for atheist is incredibly obvious but gravestones are used as a sign of respect for the dead - they are used and respected by atheists as much as any other group. They're no more relevant to the religious, as they believe your body is just a vessel for your soul.

You are right, his life should just be forgotten and his works at the Catholic youth center clearly meant nothing.

You keep changing the story. Previously you said he did "community service" and specifically stated that he was not a member of the church. Now you come out with a claim that he worked at a Catholic youth centre.

The people who were close to him should get to decide what goes on his stone, not some random college kids campaigning against religion which is what their motivatin for doing this is

I agree completely. But this is about a church that he wasn't affiliated to deciding what to put on his gravestone. If the kid had no family then I had no problem with a church offering the money to mark his death with respect - that's a decent thing to do - but it's not appropriate to use his death to advertise their religion.

Region :- a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects AND/OR the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

So taking the definition, do athiests believe that there is not a god/mohammed etc? Yes. Is there a bunch of athiests who believe this? Yes. Thereby Athiesm is a religion by definition.

By that definition EVERYTHING is a religion. Do you like Call Of Duty? It's a religion! Do you like pasta? It's a religion! Do you like... okay, you get my point. You cannot simply redefine words to suit a particular argument. Atheism is not a religion. There are no "practices" involved in atheism and the "beliefs" you speak of are an understanding of and respect for science. You could technically call McDonald's a luxury restaurant but it defies common use of the term.

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..not only that...but all he has to do is (first visit the damn restaurant :woot: )...then just pick up a current church bulletin,there is nothing about being a member of a church. I bet this atheist has no issue with picking up a lost 5 dollar bill with 'In God We Trust' stamped on it.

I bet you don't think before you post..

Many people dislike the "In God We Trust" on the money, but if you bothered to even use that brain, you would understand, that no one can get away from that. Unless you are saying, "Anyone who is a atheist should not handle US money and just live a bum and be broke and destitute"....

@Hacker - Religion is a set of beliefs and practices... Atheism has no practices, thus it is not a religion. Having a belief is 1 part, then you must have practices. We all have beliefs, but that doesn't make everything a religion. It's the practices you put behind your beliefs that turn it into such.

Are people really having this hard of a time understanding things??? Or are people doing what was happening the other day with Obama's health care, and ignoring the whole report, and just going, " Beliefs, you got this, religion!" while ignoring the rest of the definition..... sheesh.

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Religion is a belief system.

Atheism claims disbelief while having all the organizational structure of a belief system in order to perform their activism. In doing this they walk like a belief system, swim like a belief system, quack like a belief system, but claim they aren't one. Say hello, Donald.

The restaurant is a private business and can do what ever they want, including church, senior citized or cop discounts. Don't like it? Go elaewhere, quietly.

The atheist crew is obviously attention whoring. In light of the above they should STFU, open their own restaurant and give discounts for who ever they want.

That's because they are not true atheists they are anti-religion. I have no religious belief and I wouldn't go out of my way to bother with something like this. Nor do I care what other people practice as their religion. if he really wants the discount bad enough go into a local church and get a copy of the minutes. I hope the restaurant wins this one, they are a private business which you don't have to patronize if you don't want to.

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By that definition EVERYTHING is a religion. Do you like Call Of Duty? It's a religion! Do you like pasta? It's a religion! Do you like... okay, you get my point. You cannot simply redefine words to suit a particular argument. Atheism is not a religion. There are no "practices" involved in atheism and the "beliefs" you speak of are an understanding of and respect for science. You could technically call McDonald's a luxury restaurant but it defies common use of the term.

I didn't come up with the definitions of the english language and yes your point is valid, hence what I said about bacon and stamps. Athiesm is a religion.

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But if I don't have a current flier I am being discriminated against on the 10% off right?

Good luck taking that to court. What would that be, paperism? And back to the real world...
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That's because they are not true atheists they are anti-religion. I have no religious belief and I wouldn't go out of my way to bother with something like this.

Nor would I, yet that doesn't make him any less of an atheist. I can understand why he is annoyed and if there is a law prohibiting religious discrimination - like there is in the UK - then such behaviour may actually be illegal and he is perfectly justified in reporting it.

I didn't come up with the definitions of the english language and yes your point is valid, hence what I said about bacon and stamps. Athiesm is a religion.

No, it's not a religion. Nobody in the right mind would class believing that bacon is better than chicken should be classed as a religion and that is true of atheism as well - it goes against conventional use of the term. You have to apply some common sense. I could just as easily claim that Christians are atheists, as they disbelieve the existence of other gods.
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I didn't come up with the definitions of the english language and yes your point is valid, hence what I said about bacon and stamps. Athiesm is a religion.

If you only go by half of the definition and completely ignore the "practices" part as well...

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Region :- a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects AND/OR the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

Religion:

1) A specific fundamental set of beliefs

2) And practices

3) Generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects and/or the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

Sure, atheist have beliefs... the belief that gods don't exist.

But there are no practices of atheists, and certainly no practices that are generally agreed upon.

All parts of a definition must fit in order to apply a definition.

For instance, definition of chromosome: A threadlike structure of nucleic acids and protein found in the nucleus of most living cells, carrying genetic information in the form of genes.

You would argue that any threadlike structure is a chromosome.

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I didn't come up with the definitions of the english language and yes your point is valid, hence what I said about bacon and stamps. Athiesm is a religion.

The lack of belief in something is not the same as believing in a negative viewpoint. Atheists do not believe God doesn't exist; they do not believe in God. The two are NOT the same. The former is anti-theist, the latter is atheist.

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The lack of belief in something is not the same as believing in a negative viewpoint. Atheists do not believe God doesn't exist; they do not believe in God. The two are NOT the same. The former is anti-theist, the latter is atheist.

I think you're over-thinking the english language man. It's just a play on words.

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As it's been requested to take this to the official religion thread, I have posted my response to it in this thread:

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1068876-official-religion-thread-ii/page__view__findpost__p__594984759

This thread's being taken off topic so it would probably help if this discussion went there as well

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As someone who bounces back and forth between agnosticism and atheism, I have as much problem with this as I do with other places having senior citizen discounts and kids under 13 eat free. Which is none.

People look for a reason to complain about anything.

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Region :- a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects AND/OR the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

So taking the definition, do athiests believe that there is not a god/mohammed etc? Yes. Is there a bunch of athiests who believe this? Yes. Thereby Athiesm is a religion by definition.

Do some people believe that bacon tastes good? Yes. Do a bunch of people believe this? Yes. Thereby people who love bacon can be defined as a religion.

I know that traditionally athiesm refers to a lack of religion/beliefs but by definition it's a belief in "nothing" I suppose you could phrase it. And that belief can be defined as a religion.

Religion doesn't automatically mean a belief in some higher power/god or whatever you want to call it. You can be religious about collecting stamps if thats what floats your boat.

If you want to play by the definition then don't just cherry pick one part of it, beliefs and practices. So by the definition, religion is made up of more then just one part. The problem is, atheism is lack of belief but even for arguments sake, if you call not believe a belief, it's still just one part of a bigger picture of the definition. Atheist have no practices and there are no other beliefs.

Trying to associate one part into a entire religion is nonsense. It's like trying to argue that the non-belief in unicorns equates to a religion. Yet no one would seriously believe that the world is all part of a religion that doesn't believe in unicorns. Specially given that unicorns are universally accepted as not being real.

So once again, Atheism is not a religion, it's not even close.

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Religion:

1) A specific fundamental set of beliefs

2) And practices

3) Generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects and/or the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

Sure, atheist have beliefs... the belief that gods don't exist.

But there are no practices of atheists, and certainly no practices that are generally agreed upon.

All parts of a definition must fit in order to apply a definition.

For instance, definition of chromosome: A threadlike structure of nucleic acids and protein found in the nucleus of most living cells, carrying genetic information in the form of genes.

You would argue that any threadlike structure is a chromosome.

OK I get what you are saying. So what are the practices of pastafarianism? What started out as really a joke is now considered a religion.

Edit : Also, if someone says that they are a non-practising catholic, does that mean they are not religious? Why then do they represent themselves with the catholic church?

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If you want to play by the definition then don't just cherry pick one part of it, beliefs and practices. So by the definition, religion is made up of more then just one part. The problem is, atheism is lack of belief but even for arguments sake, if you call not believe a belief, it's still just one part of a bigger picture of the definition. Atheist have no practices and there are no other beliefs.

Trying to associate one part into a entire religion is nonsense. It's like trying to argue that the non-belief in unicorns equates to a religion. Yet no one would seriously believe that the world is all part of a religion that doesn't believe in unicorns. Specially given that unicorns are universally accepted as not being real.

So once again, Atheism is not a religion, it's not even close.

Atheists should start up our own church. Make it a religion, then we can get tax exempt status. Should be considered discrimination if they don't give it to us atheists.

Our Sunday service could be all about how, we don't believe in fairies and cloud men... and how Pastafarians are our friends.

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Guys stop arguing semantics, it's ridiculous, just as ridiculous as all those who are blowing this out of proportion.

I am, like many here, an atheist, and as much as I don't believe the same things I also think that a certain level of tolerance must be exercised. If atheists have a bad name in the US this certainly won't help!

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Guys stop arguing semantics, it's ridiculous, just as ridiculous as all those who are blowing this out of proportion.

I am, like many here, an atheist, and as much as I don't believe the same things I also think that a certain level of tolerance must be exercised. If atheists have a bad name in the US this certainly won't help!

Atheist can't have a bad name, as you can only group us together by the lack of something, but nothing else. Since Atheism neither has practices, rules, or guidelines... No one can say that a Atheist is supposed to be or do any certain way. In the same way that religion says their extermist aren't the "whole" of the community, one could say the same for Atheist... but agian, that wouldn't be right, since you can't really lump Atheist together in any way, since there is no line to start from.

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...I'm gonna start a new religion called QuitchaBitchinism. Who's in?

Threads like these will be burned at the stake. :D

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... Athiesm is a religion.

Would you care to elaborate? Put your money where your mouth is, as it were.

Show me how atheism is a religion.

Your previous explanation was so full of holes I had to use backing paper.

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Ok then let me give you a little test. Look for a person called Jessica Ahlquist, contact her and ask her how friendly she thinks most Americans are towards Atheists that stand up to the religious fundies in your country, or dare to demand their constitutional rights.

Two thing for ya bro;

1) You seem to miss understand Constitutional Rights and what they mean. The Constitution is a list of rights/rules that you are granted from the government. This has nothing to do with private matters. The case you are talking about was in a public school. This is a private run organization.

2) If we follow your view of Constitutional Rights ,I.E. The Private parties are held to the same rules as the Government, you are in violation of those right yourself. You have used derogatory terms/phrases in your post. You yourself full of hate.

"share my delusion and be my pal" / "we choose not to follow the delusions of the masses."

Before you start spouting off more hate and classify me as being a part of one group or another, know that you have no idea who I am or what I believe. I simply disagree with your definition of what the constitution protects. I have said nothing about religion only to what is and is not protected be our governing body.

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Two thing for ya bro;

1) You seem to miss understand Constitutional Rights and what they mean. The Constitution is a list of rights/rules that you are granted from the government. This has nothing to do with private matters. The case you are talking about was in a public school. This is a private run organization.

2) If we follow your view of Constitutional Rights ,I.E. The Private parties are held to the same rules as the Government, you are in violation of those right yourself. You have used derogatory terms/phrases in your post. You yourself full of hate.

"share my delusion and be my pal" / "we choose not to follow the delusions of the masses."

Before you start spouting off more hate and classify me as being a part of one group or another, know that you have no idea who I am or what I believe. I simply disagree with your definition of what the constitution protects. I have said nothing about religion only to what is and is not protected be our governing body.

Does not invalidate his point.

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Religion - noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature , and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

http://dictionary.re...browse/religion

I guess you could use the word at the basest level ... but I would use the term belief system. Everyone has a belief system regardless of if there any deities or any organization. Everyone believes one thing or another to be true.

Please note that the following is also a part of the definition.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith

I am not aware of any Athisitic rituals etc etc etc

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