63 posts in this topic

And I most whole heatedly disagree. It's one of the smallest browser downloads, has a very light UI, and is packed full of useful features if you need them - and if you don't they don't take up any RAM or get in your way. And certainly on Windows 8 the visual style fits in pretty nicely - not that any major browser actually has any form of really native UI on the platform anyway :p

The binary on OS X is almost twice as big compared to Safari, but okay. Next to that's there's absolutely nothing native about its interface. Not even the buttons (active ones don't pulse like in every other app). It doesn't even respect the OS X Lion scroll bar preferences set in System Preferences, i.e. they're always visible instead of automatically hiding depending on your input device. No proper animations, scrolling isn't as smooth and overall nothing behaves as you'd expect it to compared to other apps.

It's true that Safari is basically the only desktop browser in existence that actually spots a 100% native interface, but on OS X only.

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A Google browser being advertised on a Google service? Shocking! Outrage! Pitchforks and torches!

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didn't recieve the massage since i don't use blogger :) nor any google service except for youtube without an account

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That gave me a good laugh. While the rendering engine might be okay the app itself is the most horrific one I've ever used on either OS X, Windows or Linux. It's a bloated steaming pile of cross-platform crap and the Opera developers just refuse to come up with something that actually integrates with the OS it runs on. Most terrible interface experience of all popular browsers in my opinion.

Opera looks pretty much the same as chrome or firefox on windows, exaggerate more? The only integration issue I noticed in windows is lack of native menus. Care to add any real substance to this claim?

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I do remember.. and I think it was stupid.

Windows is a MS Product, they should be allowed to do whatever they want with that product.. My TomTom doesn't give me options on what to install, browser to use.. nor does my iPhone, Touchpad, or anything else.. It's Theirs.. And they should be left alone..

As I always use to compare.. The Antitrust against MS is like going to Ford, asking for a F150, but with a GM Hemmie engine.. Sorry, not their problem. Don't don't need to provide it, and they don't need to do anything to make it even possible.

And hell, Google hasn't even stopped Chrome from using it, they just warn about it at the top..

But I still say, if Tomorrow Google made all their sites and products work only in Chrome, or on Android devices, or whatever, if would be up to them.. I would say it sucks.. and be annoyed, but not illegal.. It's THEIRS.. I don't see why anyone else has any other say..

This isn't contaminated Meat or something where the Gov't should have a say.. It's a product/server that you are not Forced to use.. It's all choice.. Googles choices would affect peoples choice to use their products or not, and the world would continue..

Thank God you're not an anti trust lawmaker...

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Google not officially supporting Opera is just like program developers not producing a Linux version in that they both have tiny amounts of market share and it potentially would be a waste of resources to fully support the little players.

I disagree somewhat. The browser market has IE, Firefox, Chrome/Chromium, Safari, Opera all of which are free to download. Also two of these are also open source as well. The majority are cross-platform as well. They are also all "feature complete"/"stable".

In operating systems, we really have Windows, Mac and Linux. All three are "feature complete"/"stable" at the kernel level, but one isn't at the GUI level (cough X on Linux cough). This one is the only free, and also open-source OS. Once somebody makes a move (thanks Valve), then the unstable parts will get the attention/funding it so badly requires - but many ***** out (or even get scared on the legal front). The point is, the infrastructure like buggy/incomplete APIs also stop development on this platform, not just because it has 1.5% of the desktop share.

Opera is in a saturated market where it isn't standing out in terms of license, features or standards support (though I know they stood out well in that department in the IE6 days - everyone is much more on level in that aspect now). Why support the rendering engine when it will need it own tweaks (which cost a lot of man hours), when they are so many other alternatives as well as the market share. Anybody can build a browser with Webkit or Gecko don't forget.

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Opera looks pretty much the same as chrome or firefox on windows, exaggerate more? The only integration issue I noticed in windows is lack of native menus. Care to add any real substance to this claim?

Try reading my second post.

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Stop be evil Google...

Opera is damn good browser, if one day Firefox Devs. will do "one step to much", I will switch to Opera right away.

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Thank God you're not an anti trust lawmaker...

I don't believe they had a monopoly.. You were never forced to use Windows. There was MacOS, and a hundred flavors of *nix out there even when the first anti-trust case came against MS.

But no.. I'd rather change the law, than be a lawyer fighting the case..

IF they had a monopoly, and there were NO choices.. then I'd change my views.. but that hasn't and won't ever happen in the computer world. There are always other options, you are never forced.. You either chose something else, don't care, or don't care enough to chose something else.

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I disagree somewhat. The browser market has IE, Firefox, Chrome/Chromium, Safari, Opera all of which are free to download. Also two of these are also open source as well. The majority are cross-platform as well. They are also all "feature complete"/"stable".

In operating systems, we really have Windows, Mac and Linux. All three are "feature complete"/"stable" at the kernel level, but one isn't at the GUI level (cough X on Linux cough). This one is the only free, and also open-source OS. Once somebody makes a move (thanks Valve), then the unstable parts will get the attention/funding it so badly requires - but many ***** out (or even get scared on the legal front). The point is, the infrastructure like buggy/incomplete APIs also stop development on this platform, not just because it has 1.5% of the desktop share.

Opera is in a saturated market where it isn't standing out in terms of license, features or standards support (though I know they stood out well in that department in the IE6 days - everyone is much more on level in that aspect now). Why support the rendering engine when it will need it own tweaks (which cost a lot of man hours), when they are so many other alternatives as well as the market share. Anybody can build a browser with Webkit or Gecko don't forget.

I have to agree on that front. I'd like to see Opera open sourced, especially the rendering engine. I used to love it as a browser, but sadly a lot of sites still feed it broken code, I ended up drawn to Chrome for that reason but Opera's rendering engine is still really good, and I feel going open might help them out a bit.

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The biggest issue is that websites are targeting browsers by their user agent and modifying the experience, regardless of the ability of the browser. This is incredibly lazy, harmful and unnecessary. All large websites should be regularly checked for compatibility with all official browser releases and upcoming releases (Firefox nightlies, Googe dev channel, etc).

The reason people are annoyed is the conflict of interest. This wouldn't have been an issue if Google had recommended other compatible browsers, like IE and Firefox.

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Its a google service, they have a browser, they can support/advertise it as they see fit.

Also opera's tiny community is known for being the loudest when it comes to gripes.

Windows is a microsoft product they should include whatever browser they see fit. Google and Mozilla community was pretty damn loud about their crap browsers not coming with windows.

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I love Opera but it has always had it's share of problems. Javascript problems seem to be common. Maybe not as often as they use to, but still....

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Try reading my second post.

You specifically only mention OSX version in that post, yet in the post I quoted you claim the same for opera under windows/linux (those are the two versions I've used, never used the osx version). Opera integrated fairly well with windows, comparible to the other browsers (besides aforementioned lack of native menus). Under linux it integrates "acceptably" (and its actually the only major browser to support gtk3 themes on linux)

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mask your user agent with google..make your user agent google.

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Opera breaks more websites for me than any other browser. Go figure.

Yes, I like Opera, although it's not my default browser, but it has always had problems breaking pages.

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Good move Google. I hope other sites stop support for that poor excuse for a web browser.

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i thought opera was a modern browser. if stuff works on FF/chrome it should work in opera right?

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The biggest issue is that websites are targeting browsers by their user agent and modifying the experience, regardless of the ability of the browser. This is incredibly lazy, harmful and unnecessary.

Halleluja. This is one of the biggest issues by far, using awful hacks to get around browser issues.

What's even worse is browsers creating hacks to fix issues caused by websites adapting to fix issues in an older version of the browser. Derp to the n'th.

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i thought opera was a modern browser. if stuff works on FF/chrome it should work in opera right?

Opera has support for most things.. but it's implementation isn't always the same.. But this is true of all browsers..

You can fix *most* issues by resetting all CSS and starting over, so you don't have to deal with browser defaults, but not many sites do that..

And as have been mentioned by others, Operas Javascript engine can be iffy at times..

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Seems like web standards have taken a backseat the last few years. Google have been really sloppy on that on their services.

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Seems like web standards have taken a backseat the last few years. Google have been really sloppy on that on their services.

I wouldn't say that..

I mean google does use non-standard stuff, but if your browser doesn't, not having it doesn't Break functionality.. But if you use a browser that DOES have it, you get some added benefits..

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If I remember correctly, they have been forcing browsers to implement non-standard support a few times.

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Opera has always argued for web standards while getting behind in real world development.

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Opera has always argued for web standards while getting behind in real world development.

In some areas sure. Although they have always been one of the first to pass the Acid tests. Most of the "breaking sites" have been sites using sniffing etc.The most famous one is of course the whole MSN.com issue some years ago. Still happen today, but in smaller numbers

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