138 replies to this topic

[killer2239]

First off this is a terrible incident to hear about. I hope the officer and family are able to cope and move on from this tragedy.

There are way to many unanswered questions in this article to even begin saying who is more at fault. Questions like, What type of holster and did it block access to the trigger, were either of them drunk, did she tug his waist, or upper sides (due to which type of holster). There are other questions I know I am missing here. Either way, we need a lot more info to help us come to a conclusion before everyone gets into a debate.

Tha Bloo Monkee, on 09 July 2012 - 15:35, said:

One more reason why people should not be carrying these KILLER WEAPONS.

lol @ DocM's sig promoting the use of killer weapons. Disgusting.

Driving a car is operating a killer weapon. Lets just stop everything that can kill someone. --- Continued after next quote.

theyarecomingforyou, on 09 July 2012 - 14:24, said:

I think we have different definitions of "good" when we're talking about a design flaw that has proven to be fatal. Simply adding a warning to the instruction manual is not acceptable.

Then again, when you have a nation obsessed with firearms and their supply is so widespread these things will inevitably happen.

I have to disagree with you some here. It is the owners responsibility to know his weapon. Yes, there are defects or design flaws found that hopefully the manufacture corrects. As well as markets their flaw or defects so that the owners can easily hear about this. As said before, we do not know the entire story, and this could be an incident where yes that design flaw caused this, maybe he did or did not know about this flaw. I agree it should not have happened, but its called an accident for a reason, and accidents happen everyday. We could find out that the girl who grabbed him did in fact somehow pull the trigger and caused this herself. Until we have more info we do not know.

I am friends with several cops, who always carry off-duty. They are prepared to be on-duty at any given time if needed. I support cops being prepared to do their job.

Going to stop here, I can already tell this thread is easily going to turn into a "This is why we need to ban guns" and "Its our right to carry". I personally have my conceal license and support guns, at least in the sense of good people having them.

[srbeen]

There's no such thing as accidents with guns. Their purpose is to wound/kill.

[DocM]

Of course there are accidents with guns. That's just a silly statement.

Some guns are mare just for paper punching. As for wounding or killing - damned right if someone busts into this house at 3 AM with ill intent. By the time cops get here it's all over one way or the other, and we have no intention of losing that contest.

And sometimes sh*t just happens and there's an accident. This was with a firearm, tomorrow it could be a toaster with a short circuit or a car with a broken steering part.

[+GreenMartian]

"Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just..." Bang!

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

DocM an innocent woman died in this artcicle, I don't need to show you any proof that guns kill people.

[Javik]

DocM, on 09 July 2012 - 15:42, said:

So, a cop shouldn't have one (as in this case)?

As for my sig - some are for target, some for hunting and others to protect myself and my family. Different tools for different jobs. A carpenter has lots of chisels, each for a given task, and each could kill you just as dead as any bullet. Deal with it.

Except a carpenter's tools aren't designed with one explicit goal: to kill things.

[spacer]

Sounds like a incredibly huge design flaw if the gun can be "stage triggered" or whatever it's called which leaves it in an extremely volatile state.

[Andrew Lyle]

Kill'em with kindness...... #YYEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

[killer2239]

Tha Bloo Monkee, on 09 July 2012 - 16:35, said:

DocM an innocent woman died in this artcicle, I don't need to show you any proof that guns kill people.

And I can find you thousands of articles to show you that Cars, Motorcycles, Knives and even string/rope/hoses that kill more people everyday. Does that mean we need to get rid of all those things? Guns are meant for protection and hunting. Its the fact that we have so many people with bad intentions that we have to use them for protection.

[+Jdawg683]

DocM, on 09 July 2012 - 15:03, said:

I'm having trouble visualizing it too, but it could have hit the femoral artery in her leg and she bled out. A .40 tactical round (HST, Ranger, Golden Sabre etc.) can shread things pretty badly.

It's also possible a round like the HST hitting in the upper thigh or pelvis could set up a massive shockwave that would create a water-hammer like effect in the circulatory system that caused brain damage due to bursting small blood vessels - a hydrostatic shock. This has been demonstrated in animal tests and at autopsy.

this is what i was envisioning - the femoral artery. what a sad story...

[DocM]

We don't really know her body position when it discharged. If upright the femoral artery is most likely, but if she fell and grabbed at him on the way down it could have hit anywhere. Whatever, a sad situation.

[+Xenosion]

Tha Bloo Monkee, on 09 July 2012 - 16:35, said:

DocM an innocent woman died in this artcicle, I don't need to show you any proof that guns kill people.

I'm so glad you're here to tell us someone died.

Javik, on 09 July 2012 - 16:37, said:

Except a carpenter's tools aren't designed with one explicit goal: to kill things.

Did you come up with that all by yourself? Surely not. Unfortunately when you saw this argument, you did not see the likely rebuttal: it's not true. Guns aren't only made to "kill". There are plenty of firearms that are solely meant for recreation. In this scenario, the gun is one of law enforcement, and I am not so knee-jerky to say because of an accident we should disarm our police. Besides, since when do we ever only use a tool as it's intended? I'm sure plenty of people have been murdered with carpenter tools.

Accident: mishap: an unplanned and unfortunate event that results in damage, injury, or upset of some kind.

[Javik]

The stats on gun crime in America pretty much prove my point. Mexico, Argentina, and South Africa are the only countries in the world with higher rates of gun crime.

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

Xenosion, on 09 July 2012 - 17:42, said:

I'm so glad you're here to tell us someone died.

If you had bothered to read the previous page (which you didn't) you would have known why that was written. But you didn't, so instead all you did was make yourself look like an idiot.

[+Xenosion]

Javik, on 09 July 2012 - 19:09, said:

The stats on gun crime in America pretty much prove my point. Mexico, Argentina, and South Africa are the only countries in the world with higher rates of gun crime.

I'm glad you brought that up. That's an excellent reason to push harder restrictions on gun ownership and more education on proper handling. It's important to note that typical gun crime isn't what happened here.

Tha Bloo Monkee, on 09 July 2012 - 19:11, said:

If you had bothered to read the previous page (which you didn't) you would have known why that was written. But you didn't, so instead all you did was make yourself look like an idiot.

The point I was making is that I could just as rightly tell you that we don't have to show you proof that guns don't kill people. You see, not all guns kill and not all deaths are from guns - a very pointless thing to say indeed.