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This guy makes some good points about Linux

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#46 redvamp128

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 00:53

You have to get people cooperating for that to work. Highlighting the lack of cooperation (I'm assuming that's part of what he complained about) is a good way to maybe get the Linux community cooperating.


Nope same old laundry list of complaints...

Command line (which is non-existent in most distributions) in order to install programs, too many sound programs, video players, lack of initial support for all video and sound formats.... you know stuff that when you buy Windows or OSX the licences are paid and or agreed to when they are bought.


#47 migo

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 00:54

Too many sound programs and video players is a lack of cooperation.

#48 migo

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 00:55

And that's precisely why it's not going anywhere at the moment. I love choice, it's great. But it's just as possible to baffle a user with excess choice as it is to not give them enough. And that's my main problem with a lot of FOSS communities there's overemphasis on providing a million and one competing solutions for every idea, which ends up with a lot of spotty quality with the average user not able to tell what option is good and what one is crap. It's my opinion that the Linux communities need to pool their resources and work towards some form of unification. I'm not saying there should be no choice of course but they need to start focusing on quality and usability more.


There was this April Fool's joke last year that suggested Ubuntu, Gentoo, Fedora and a few other distros were going to pool their resources and put one super distro. It was a really cruel joke as it would be great if that happened and it obviously wasn't happening, but that is also what needs to happen.

#49 B0mberman

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 00:57

Most of what he says is utter cr#p. Generalisations, and unfounded reaching here. Get a life. Stay on topic, learn to argue and get a grip.

#50 OP Motoko.

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 01:30

Most of what he says is utter cr#p. Generalisations, and unfounded reaching here. Get a life. Stay on topic, learn to argue and get a grip.

This comment above had all of the following. :rofl:

#51 Growled

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:10

I love Linux and I want it to work out and do good but it always falls so short. For me, Android is what Linux should have been.

#52 Glassed Silver

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:28

[...]
KDE is a bit snappier and more familiar looking as a Windows guy but comes off a bit unpolished. Fedora's KDE spin is ****ing me off with constant SELinux warnings about this and that, that are not seen in Gnome.

I want to give KDE another go in OpenSUSE, but the install always takes a dump because it can't delete my fedora partition for some reason. Neither can Gparted.


SELinux should really be disabled.
It's only painful and doesn't make much sense in most environments.

Really, disabling it is like hotfixing your system.

Refer to this:


Glassed Silver:mac

#53 ichi

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:32

And that's precisely why it's not going anywhere at the moment. I love choice, it's great. But it's just as possible to baffle a user with excess choice as it is to not give them enough. And that's my main problem with a lot of FOSS communities there's overemphasis on providing a million and one competing solutions for every idea, which ends up with a lot of spotty quality with the average user not able to tell what option is good and what one is crap. It's my opinion that the Linux communities need to pool their resources and work towards some form of unification. I'm not saying there should be no choice of course but they need to start focusing on quality and usability more.


Where else is Linux supposed to go?

Cooperating on a single project might sound great and surely you might get something better faster than people spread on different projects, but there are some reasons why that won't happen and also why it shouldn't happen:

-People work on different projects because that's what they want to do. You could get some Linux companies to join forces, but a hell of a lot of the work spent on Linux projects comes from volunteers, and you sure won't be getting them to stop working on whatever they want.
-If people had all focused on one single project we would be missing parallel projects that turned out to be awesome. If everyone was working on, say, GTK, we wouldn't have the cool crossplatform framework that is Qt (and no one can guarantee that GTK would actually be betten than it currently is).

The way I see it Linux as a whole is sort of an evolutionary playground that advances slowly because of the diversified and duplicated work. What's worth sticks and what's not eventually fades.

The good thing is that surprisingly it does actually move forward, and so far they have achieved a nice desktop (despite it's many flaws) and an awesome server OS. It's certainly not the best way to get a product out of the door, if Linux was an actual single company they would have gone bankrupt long ago, but since it isn't... well, that's the way it rolls.

If you want an unified desktop your best bet is pushing the vision of one distro (Canonical, RedHat, whatever...) and forgetting about the rest, because I don't see all the Linux developers working together on a single project ever.

Heck, you can't even get users to agree on one single distro yet you expect those who are actually spending time coding to do so?

#54 Javik

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:40

And that attitude is precisely why Linux is always going to languish as a niche product with little real world usage. Too many people obsessed with competition not prepared to work together for a common goal.

#55 ViperAFK

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:55

Too many sound programs and video players is a lack of cooperation.


Really, all you need is vlc anyway, so I don't see the point in complaining about too many video players :) Also many of the other players are just basically gstreamer or mplayer frontends, meaning there's many video player front ends, but really when it comes to video players you have mplayer, vlc, and gstreamer based.

#56 OP Motoko.

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 05:05

And that attitude is precisely why Linux is always going to languish as a niche product with little real world usage. Too many people obsessed with competition not prepared to work together for a common goal.


Only canonical seems to have a vision being fulfilled with Ubuntu in the consumer space and they're doing great with that. With every release they seem to be doing something right but it'll take a more larger scale of developers to get into a direction they can really branch out from, it's as you say.

#57 migo

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:54

If the Linux world were organised in some fashion like BSD, the situation would be a lot better.

You have pretty much 3 options.

Want to run BSD on your toaster/graphing calculator/thermostat? Use NetBSD.

Want a completely secure and stable BSD for a server/workstation/corporate environment? Use OpenBSD.

Want BSD on your desktop/laptop and you care more about new features and less about security? Use FreeBSD.

Then, from FreeBSD there's DesktopBSD and PC-BSD, but both of those are 100% FreeBSD, just prepackaged in a more consumer friendly fashion.

There's no glut of extra, unnecessary BSD distributions.

It would be nice if Linux could be something even close to that.

As far as openSuSE and Fedora go, they're both testing grounds for their commercial releases. They're making money, so obviously it makes sense for them to provide their own distributions. Any other company that's commercially successful with a Linux distribution, makes sense to have their own. But when you get to hobby distros, or volunteers working on a project, what's the point of having 500 different distros? The less people you have working on a given distro, the less hardware variants it gets tested on, and the lest people it's potentially viable for. I have no shortage of Linux distros that I've tried that won't even boot to the Live destop on my netbook, even though as an Atom based Netbook pretty much all the components are constant.

It's made it impossible for me to recommend any Linux distro to anyone else, because even if I get it working on my own system, I have no idea if it will work on theirs. That's a bad situation for Linux to be in, and it'd be much, much better if there were a few distros that were tested on many hardware configurations.

#58 Glassed Silver

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:16

I agree, BSD is awesome.
I'll likely use it or Solaris for a server in near to mid future.

Currently tinkering with BSD in VMs and adore it.
I'm especially intruged by ZFS 28.

Might also play around with Oracle Linux, due to btrfs testing - NOT going to deploy it in a productive environment in the foreseeable future, as it's too young and immature for me, but I'm looking forward to it! :)

Glassed Silver:ios

#59 ichi

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:46

And that attitude is precisely why Linux is always going to languish as a niche product with little real world usage. Too many people obsessed with competition not prepared to work together for a common goal.


Maybe, maybe not. The point is that if Linux desktop ever goes anywhere near mainstream that'll be because of the push of a single company with one single distro, not because everyone suddenly decide to work together.
Just look at the smartphone market: it wasn't Linux as a whole who took it by storm, it was Google's Android. Does anyone really care about any of that guy's complains when using an Android phone?

And besides the desktop, Linux is certainly not niche anyway.

#60 migo

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:56

Actually, Android has some serious fragmentation complaints. Sense on an HTC, TouchWiz on a Samsung, Blur on a Motorola, Flyme on a Meizu, and so on.

The big difference for Android success is Android comes bundled with the hardware people are going to buy anyway, and for a while it was the only viable alternative to the iPhone. The problem Linux runs into is that for the start of the Netbook craze, the community didn't set aside the differences and pool their resources to make a UI and overall experience that worked very well on a netbook, and instead ceded that market to Windows.

It's only now that Netbook sales have almost dried up that we're finally seeing some distros that work well.

Linux might get another chance with gaming - no way it'll be up to snuff for tablets even though Unity and Gnome Shell are both designed with tablet use in mind - and that's only if Microsoft fumbles or Valve really pushes ahead with their Linux support. For that though, not only will there have to be a solid Linux distro that looks good and performs well on all hardware, they're going to have to get the graphics driver issue sorted out, and I'm not even convinced they'll be able to do that with Intel HD 4000 (or 5000/6000 when it comes out) graphics even though Intel provides the source code to the drivers.



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