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Game devs hating Windows 8?


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#16 Colin McGregor

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 23:32

Developers invariably initially hate every new version of something they are forced to work with.


Not all of us hate every new version of something. Just the ones not good enough to adapt


#17 Andre S.

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 00:10

John Carmack's point was that OSes have gotten so good now that it doesn't really matter from his point of view. He wasn't negative about Windows 8 (actually he had little else but praise for Microsoft throughout the talk), but as a game developer it seemed to him that it didn't bring anything exciting to the table.

Gabe Newell is scared about the Windows store competing with Steam.

That's about it.

#18 PGHammer

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 00:24

DPC Latency anyone?

A surprisingly low max of 1072 microseconds from the included drivers (Realtek RTL8111E)/minimum of 1001 microseconds - thus a spread of 72 microseconds.

That's actully lower than the Windows 7 spread.

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#19 Matthew_Thepc

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:28

So it's not like Microsoft is restricting currently available resources or files within the OS? Just making it more competitive?

Exactly, on the x86 & x64 (that is, non-ARM) versions, it's been confirmed that basically all apps that run on Windows 7 run on the Windows 8 Desktop.
And, AFAIK, whether 3rd-party apps will be allowed on the ARM desktop is still anyone's guess (but I suspect they will).
But they are restricting Metro apps to the store - so if they for some reason wanted to port all their games to Metro, they'd have to give Microsoft about 20% of their profits

OP: LOL, the posts on Neowin's front page about game developers hating Windows 8 are some of the most blown out of proportion articles I've ever seen on Neowin. for example, a recent one was about how Notch 'bashed' windows 8...if you went to the source comment, he was actually saying that one of the biggest worries he has for indie games is that if Microsoft went the route of OSX's Gatekeeper and locked down Windows so that only registered developers could build apps for it. Which, btw, isn't happening any time in the foreseeable future ;) not to mention a twitter post by Notch; https://twitter.com/...02280844312576:

Just this week a reporter from them tried to get me to talk bad about Windows 8, for example. Don't like the store idea, like the rest [of] it.

It's really starting to scare me how much those Neowin 'news' posts are getting out of hand :s

but the reason the ones who legitly don't like it have is that if consumers actually end up loving Metro apps, then they'll be forced to sell their games through the Windows Store (which is the only place to get Metro apps on Windows 8 without jailbreaking it), and so they'll have to give Microsoft a 30-20% cut of their sales. And because of the possibility that Microsoft won't allow any non-Microsoft programs to run on the Desktop in ARM, but tbh, I doubt that.

TL;DR: Most of them don't. The only person who does (and has connections with the article) is the author of those posts who takes their comments completely out of context :angry: Those that do are (rightfully) afraid that if Metro takes off then they'll have to give MS a 20-30% cut of their profits

#20 chrisj1968

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:34

I think he refereed to a new framework as well. Win8 changes the script yet again. I think that's what all the hoopla is about.

#21 +TCLN Ryster

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 02:35

Not all of us hate every new version of something. Just the ones not good enough to adapt


Start screen aside (love it or hate it, it's personal preference), Windows 8 is superior to 7 in many ways. From OS speed, resource usage, task manager enhancements, copy/move/delete dialog improvements, etc. Saying it's "not good enough" is just pure FUD. If you have half a braincell you can avoid metro entirely if you want, so that's a non-issue.

#22 S00N3R FR3AK

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 03:52

Carmack doesn't hate Windows 8, he just likes 7 and sees no point in moving on from what is working. He is indifferent to it and will support the platform.

#23 rhianntp

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:01

They hate on Win 8 because they know better why its a cluster technically than we do ...all you really need to do is look at metro on a laptop or a desktop though and know this O/S is horse **** :)

#24 Skin

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:07

Carmack doesn't hate Windows 8, he just likes 7 and sees no point in moving on from what is working.


Well, someone should tell him to do a better job coding in it... ID pretty much became irrelevant for a number of years, and now are looking to come back. If I was him, I'd focus on the latest and greatest and move from there.

Valve is running scared on profits and competition from the Store, and other devs seem to just be gaining press based on jumping on the bandwagon whil the story is 'hot'. In all, WIN8 doesn't bring much 'new' past 7, but it sure does streamline some stuff, and lower some latency, increase throughput, and overall, is better - UI liking aside.

#25 +warwagon

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:09

He doesn't. The article and especially the headline are extremely misleading and that you fell for it should tell Neowin to up their quality standards for news on the frontpage. It's getting ridiculous.


Well they didn't put words in his mouth, he really did say that! Though he did go on to explain his answer.

#26 rhianntp

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:21

all of Carmack's games work perfect on linux ...once the rest of the devs start embracing linux a bit more MS is through...its been a long time coming ..this attempt to take on apple at the expense of their own customer base is going to cost them dearly... this whole metro thjng has been solely for the purpose of having their own brand slate pc ..which also has little to no chance of unseating apple in that space...meanwhile they will be alienating a very large percent of their current customers....nice

#27 FATILA

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 04:33

Start screen aside (love it or hate it, it's personal preference), Windows 8 is superior to 7 in many ways. From OS speed, resource usage, task manager enhancements, copy/move/delete dialog improvements, etc. Saying it's "not good enough" is just pure FUD. If you have half a braincell you can avoid metro entirely if you want, so that's a non-issue.


Yeah this is what I thought. Leaving aside any criticism, if this was a new car model it doesn't have enough new features to be very tempting. WIndows 7 is already fast and good on resources, the other bits like task manager and file transfer are not very notable. You really have to be a metro fan to justify upgrading.

#28 PGHammer

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:13

Yeah this is what I thought. Leaving aside any criticism, if this was a new car model it doesn't have enough new features to be very tempting. WIndows 7 is already fast and good on resources, the other bits like task manager and file transfer are not very notable. You really have to be a metro fan to justify upgrading.


It's what I called in my earlier thread (The Real Reason Behind the FUD About Windows 8) *excuse-hunting*. Despite better support for existing (not new) applications - not to mention existing hardware - suddenly that's not enough? What in Ned *is* enough?

1. Support for new types of applications and games - check; that's part of the driver behind WinRT.
2. Better keyboard support - check. (If anything, Windows 8 has better keyboard support than Windows 7 - or any Windows OS since Windows 2000 Professional - which is rather embarrassing.)
3. Better touch support - check. (Windows 7 had rudimentary touch support; Windows 8 is miles above that - not even counting the StartScreen.)

Seriously - what would be enough?

#29 KevinN206

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:47

WinRT.

WinRT will make them get new dev tools, and currently devs using WinRT must publish through the store, as far as I know you can't publish elsewhere yet. If this is true I suspect it's because the installer code isn't ready yet, considering it's new tech.

Other than that from what I understand the Start Screen frustrates devs because when you install Visual Studio it puts around 40 icons right in there.

I'm sure there are other reasons of course. It's the most disruptive (to the user, not applications) OS in a while and Win7 is still fantastic.

It depends on which version of VS. I installed VS 2012 RC, and it puts I believe at most 5 icons. It's pretty easy to remove the non-essential ones from the start screen. I find Windows 8, from the desktop, to be almost exactly like that of Windows 7 except better performing.

#30 Synthetic

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:50

They hate on Win 8 because they know better why its a cluster technically than we do ...all you really need to do is look at metro on a laptop or a desktop though and know this O/S is horse **** :)

all of Carmack's games work perfect on linux ...once the rest of the devs start embracing linux a bit more MS is through...its been a long time coming ..this attempt to take on apple at the expense of their own customer base is going to cost them dearly... this whole metro thjng has been solely for the purpose of having their own brand slate pc ..which also has little to no chance of unseating apple in that space...meanwhile they will be alienating a very large percent of their current customers....nice

You're funny :rolleyes: