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Posted

[quote name='TheLegendOfMart' timestamp='1344157715' post='595061617']
I never said it was 'normal', the norm is heterosexuality and homosexuality is outside of that norm. The problem is the connotation that is attached to words used to describe gays, while the usage might be entirely innocent the connotation makes it feel like they are less than, like they are second class citizens just because they like the same sex.

Abomination is a disgusting word to use to describe a group of people:

[b] a

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Posted (edited)

I couldn't hear everything that was said in the video, but the only things I can see in that video that are wrong is what they wrote in chalk on the floor and that face and noise the guy pulled between 0:25 and 0:27. All I could hear them say in the video was that the Bible is immoral, the preacher is a hypocrite, and that they hate God. Did they say anything that could be deemed wrong or abuse?

The preacher is preaching unjust intolerance and attempting to convince people that oppression is okay, so these people informed the preacher that he's being hypocritical (which is likely, due to what else the Old Testament states, but they shouldn't have stated that with certainty unless they know something we don't), that his book is immoral, and that they hate the god that he believes would like to see people oppressed.

Obviously, if the preacher is allowed to preach terrible things, these people should be allowed to preach the opposite to him. Of course, they should do so without attacking him or abusing him, though. I certainly don't agree with what they wrote in chalk. But as I say, I can't understand what they're saying in some of the video, so if they were abusing him by what they said, please could someone inform me of what they said that was abuse or wrong? Edited by Calum
Added the part about the face and noise.
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Posted

[quote name='BlueScreenOfDeath' timestamp='1344157071' post='595061609']
Well if you want to get down to the science part of it what makes homosexuality in nature normal? [. . .]
[/quote]
We risk this thread becoming off-topic, by discussing same-sex attraction in general, but it's as simple as the following: same-sex attraction (what you refer to as 'homosexuality') is natural because attraction is a natural feeling which people cannot consciously change. It's silly when people bring up gay sex in the debate as to whether "homosexuality" is natural or not because attraction is different to sex, and as it's the attraction people feel that leads them to want to have sex, everyone in this debate should be looking at whether the attraction is natural or not (which, as I explain, it is).
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Posted

[quote name='Skin' timestamp='1344138280' post='595061349']
I am fully convinced that man, as a whole, is an incredibly flawed and self-centered bag of stupid.

I seriously doubt most of the people protesting have had folks get in their face and scream at them, like they do to others. It is shameful that they, in a quest for acceptance instead turn to anger, hate, and belittlement like they say they receive. When you cannot rise above what you claim to fight, you have already failed.

Shameful no matter what the cause.
[/quote]

while all dem fancy words means well sometimes the only way to fight fire is wid AN EXPLOSIIIAANNN (yes it is all purposely mis-spelt )

but seriously I am with the gays they have been bashed enough (lol unintentional pun) .... for years they have been repressed and treated like crap why should they not be angry? sometimes it is hard to keep your head above water when people are pushing you down.

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='ArialBlue' timestamp='1344139199' post='595061373']
Try burning the bible in front of any religious preachers talking about homosexual immorality or some stupid thing like that.
That should make such a person go away.
[/quote]

How childish....maybe you should just fall down and kick and scream until you get your way? Burning a copy of the Bible wouldn't draw the same ire as it does with other religions. Edited by John S.
The above opinion is solely that of the posters and does not reflect the opinion of Neowin, it's owners, staff, affiliates, or advertisers.
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Posted

[quote name='nekkidtruth' timestamp='1344154076' post='595061559']
I'm totally playing devil's advocate here....but you're being very hypocritical. The same is thought about religious people.

That being said, I'm gay. I strongly believe that we should voice our concerns when our rights are being trampled on and I have on several occasions verbally attacked many of the bigots on this site. But to be completely fair (and believe me this isn't easy to admit given my thoughts on a lot of current issues regarding gays and marriage), what you're saying can easily be applied to how the religious folk are treated.

Lol I feel like a pod person right now...
[/quote]


The difference, of course, being gay people don't live by a dogma which compels them to behave in a certain way. Religion, from my perspective, seems to be entirely setup to encourage a hivemind mentality.The opposition to gay marriage, and indeed, homosexual in general is overwhelmingly fueled by religious dogma or scriptual teachings.

If you criticse religion, you aren't necessarily criticising all the religious folk. If you criticise religious people with hateful and bigoted views, you're not criticsing the ones without those views.
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Posted

[quote name='srprimeaux' timestamp='1344141139' post='595061407']
So, nothing to say about the men making fun of this preacher? It exists on BOTH sides.
[/quote]
I think that making fun of someone's views is fine, but hurling insults and abusing them isn't. After all, if someone doesn't wish their beliefs to be ridiculed, they shouldn't hold ridiculous beliefs :) This is especially the case when someone's ridiculous beliefs advocate oppression or unjust discrimination.

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Posted

A little more food for thought....

Something that was mentioned during Occupy Wall Street -- what if some of these people are really nothing more than agitators trying to make one side look bad?


T

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Posted

[quote name='John S.' timestamp='1344175219' post='595062133']
How childish....maybe you should just fall down and kick and scream until you get your way? Burning a copy of the Bible wouldn't draw the same ire as it does with other religions.
[/quote]
I completely agree. I believe there are much more elegant and decent ways to protest than burning the Bible. Burning the Bible in front of someone who holds the belief one opposes only serves to either irritate that person or disrespect that person's beliefs. I'm not suggesting religious [i]beliefs[/i] should be respected (although I believe religious [i]people
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Posted

[quote name='TheLegendOfMart' timestamp='1344153518' post='595061547']
What annoys me is that people in this thread and the world think that gays have some sort of hive mind, that a small group of gay people even one gay person speaks and acts for every gay person.

Its ridiculous.

Just because these gays are idiots doesn't mean that every gay person condones it. Why would you judge millions of people by the actions of a few....
[/quote]I would define it as more of a pack mentality than a hive mind. But in using either term you could apply that beliefe to both sides (or any side since there are likely more than 2 opinions) and how people believe. There is strength in numbers, and when there is a strong enough belief behind that pack then it is very easy to become a mob [mentality].

The owner of Chick-fil-a is speaking for himself and his beliefs. He is also using funds earned from the franchise to contribute to his beliefs. Is he doing so in his name or in Chick-fil-a's name? I don't know but it's a pretty valid question when it determines who should be shamed here. As far as I know Chick-fil-a still employs and serves to ethnicities of all races and sexes. There are also reports that Walmart and Urban Outfitters (to name a few companies) have also contributed to politicians or groups that hold "traditional" values over the more liberal ideas. But is it the company or the individuals behind the company that are contributing?

So just because there are a few people who have money speaking in favor of their values over the values of others does it make it right for all of this backlash and vandalism against these individual franchises that have NOT voiced their opinion? When did teaching tolerance and diversity include practicing intolerance and prejudice? When angered and uninformed it's likely that people will quickly ose sight of their end goal.

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Posted

[quote name='TheLegendOfMart' timestamp='1344156136' post='595061599']
What's wrong with that?

Is it not OK to be intolerant of intolerance?

There is no way of effectively going after the CEO, so they hit him where it hurts, his profits.
[/quote]

From what I've heard, the whole boycott thing backfired. And, obviously, the whole "kiss-in" backfired too -- at least it did here. Christians are being slandered as hateful bigots just because they believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ. But do we see here Christians heckling a homosexual reading a book? No. We see the supposedly tolerant and loving homosexual advocates mocking an old man (not to mention those who are vandalizing Chick-fil-A). I'm merely showing people the other side of the crowd. The majority hear about how "evil" and "hateful" Christians are, but they never see how "evil" and "hateful" the other side can be.
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Posted

What was the guy's answer at the start of the video?
Dont ask a question and cut off his answer.
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Posted

[quote name='TheLegendOfMart' timestamp='1344156136' post='595061599']
What's wrong with that?

Is it not OK to be intolerant of intolerance?

There is no way of effectively going after the CEO, so they hit him where it hurts, his profits.[/quote]

News flash: behaving like this is making CFA etc. look [i][b]more[/b][/i] sympathetic in most peoples eyes. The days of tolerating boorish, loutish and disrespectful behavior in the name of social protest went out decades ago. The general populations negative reaction to the OWS protests should have taught you that, but I guess another lesson in civility is necessary. Would have been better if mom & dad had done it.

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Posted

I'm what most Americans would call a Liberal and even I think this is going way too far. If you want to make a protest do so peacefully, vandalism and harassing people are unacceptable regardless of how just you believe your cause is. And it does a cause harm in the long run if it's adherents are perceived to be loutish.


[quote name='BlueScreenOfDeath' timestamp='1344198005' post='595063045']
Care to show some proof that same sex attraction is natural? I find it hard to believe from a scientific standpoint. Because according to research that's been done - it can be directly linked to specific levels of brain chemicals. If it can happen in mice it surely happens in other animals and humans.
[/quote]

You're missing the biggest part of the equation: It's not choice, which makes the arguments most conservatives use against gay people wrong. You wouldn't oppress and marginalise a person with Down's so why should you be able to do it to gay people? Oh that's right, the bible says so and we know the bible must never be questioned :laugh:

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Posted

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1344198649' post='595063075']You're missing the biggest part of the equation: It's not choice, which makes the arguments most conservatives use against gay people wrong. You wouldn't oppress and marginalise a person with Down's so why should you be able to do it to gay people? Oh that's right, the bible says so and we know the bible must never be questioned :laugh:[/quote]

We might not have the ability to choose every feeling we experience, but we certainly have the choice to act out on those feelings. A married man might see a very attracted woman on the subway and feel the temptation to peruse her for a possible sexual encounter, but he has the choice to do that or not. We all have areas in our lives like that. For some it's weight control. For others it's drug related. And then there are those whose struggle is sexually. The feelings come and go and they have the ability to act on them or not. From the Christian perspective, we should seek to restrain ourselves from doing anything the Bible prescribes as morally reprehensible. You might disagree and that's fine. I'm just trying to communicate this from my point of view.

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Posted

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1344198649' post='595063075']
You're missing the biggest part of the equation: It's not choice, which makes the arguments most conservatives use against gay people wrong. You wouldn't oppress and marginalise a person with Down's so why should you be able to do it to gay people? Oh that's right, the bible says so and we know the bible must never be questioned :laugh:
[/quote]

Exactly it's not choice - if it were choice then these studies i obviously linked to would prove other wise. I also wasn't marginalizing anyone. You are assuming i'm using the bible as a crutch for my argument which i am not even though i did post what was in the bible in both old and new testaments - and how interpretation can be very different since the Hebrew language isn't the easiest to decode. If you honestly believe that every Christian interprets the bible in a basic fundamental way where it's word for word then i'm sorry you have such incorrect assumption about them.

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Posted

[quote name='srprimeaux' timestamp='1344199810' post='595063121']
We might not have the ability to choose every feeling we experience, but we certainly have the choice to act out on those feelings. A married man might see a very attracted woman on the subway and feel the temptation to peruse her for a possible sexual encounter, but he has the choice to do that or not. We all have areas in our lives like that. For some it's weight control. For others it's drug related. And then there are those whose struggle is sexually. The feelings come and go and they have the ability to act on them or not. From the Christian perspective, we should seek to restrain ourselves from doing anything the Bible prescribes as morally reprehensible. You might disagree and that's fine. I'm just trying to communicate this from my point of view.
[/quote]

Why should people be forced to repress their sexuality just because Christians don't like it? Gay people aren't asking you to be gay, they're just asking you for equal rights. If the bible tells you not to be gay, don't be gay, just stop acting as if it also gives you the right to oppress others.

[quote name='BlueScreenOfDeath' timestamp='1344199883' post='595063125']
Exactly it's not choice - if it were choice then these studies i obviously linked to would prove other wise. I also wasn't marginalizing anyone. You are assuming i'm using the bible as a crutch for my argument which i am not even though i did post what was in the bible in both old and new testaments - and how interpretation can be very different since the Hebrew language isn't the easiest to decode. If you honestly believe that every Christian interprets the bible in a basic fundamental way where it's word for word then i'm sorry you have such incorrect assumption about them.
[/quote]

Most of the arguments against homosexuality come from religion, and most of the homophobia in America is due to religion. It doesn't take a nuclear physicist to put the dots together.

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Posted

[quote name='BlueScreenOfDeath' timestamp='1344198005' post='595063045']
Care to show some proof that same sex attraction is natural? I find it hard to believe from a scientific standpoint. Because according to research that's been done - it can be directly linked to specific levels of brain chemicals. If it can happen in mice it surely happens in other animals and humans.


Source: Wikipedia - Homosexual Behavior in animals
[/quote]


IF that's true, maybe they have found a 'cure' for homosexuality. It should be mandatory if true.

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Posted

They need to arrest the entire lot. But then they would just scream discrimination again and again.

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Posted

[quote name='Javik' timestamp='1344201467' post='595063169']Why should people be forced to repress their sexuality just because Christians don't like it? Gay people aren't asking you to be gay, they're just asking you for equal rights. If the bible tells you not to be gay, don't be gay, just stop acting as if it also gives you the right to oppress others.[/quote]

Well, that's the thing. The legitimizing of homosexuality as a perfectly normal alternative to heterosexuality also requires that all opposition to homosexual behavior must be delegitimized. Full recognition of "gay rights" means limited recognition of the rights of others. The rule of thumb can be summarized as follows: "We have the right to be ourselves, even if it offends you, but you do not have the right to be yourselves or to be offended. And under no circumstances do you have the right to offend us."

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Posted

[[i]Thread closed[/i]]

This topic has also gone far enough astray.
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