Apple & Microsoft

[Boz]

Apple and Microsoft are up to no good says antitrust lawyer David Balto. Dropping even the pretense of fairness and competition, the unlikely team have enlisted one of the most aggressive patent trolls to go after the Kodak patent portfolio.

After the successful Nortel bid, Rockstar Bidco?s members founded and funded a new troll entity, Rockstar Consortium. Apple and Microsoft transferred certain key patents (which Wired called ?warheads?) to the consortium, which serves its members by attacking their competitors with frivolous patent infringement lawsuits as a way of bleeding other companies dry. The organization also pays a percentage of its licensing and royalty revenue back to the founding companies.

The Department of Justice?s approval of the Nortel transaction, and its subsequent inaction in light of the transfer, appears to have had the unintended consequence of sanctioning the use of patent trolls. These firms no longer see the need to create shell operations. Instead, Apple and Microsoft have cut to the chase and openly enlisted the most aggressive and troubling of the patent trolls to collect and wield patents against their competitors.

Apple?s participation in this new unholy trinity is especially hypocritical. In litigation before the International Trade Commission earlier this year, the company alleged, and convinced the ITC, that various patents in the Kodak portfolio are invalid. Now, despite its past representations, Apple wants to acquire these patents to attack the Android ecosystem.

Meanwhile, a rival bidding group has formed in the Android ecosystem. Its members include HTC, Samsung, LG Electronics, Google and the patent aggregator RPX Corporation, whose business model is devoted to defensive patent licensing to fend off attacks from trolls.

The decision to pursue the Kodak patents should put to bed any argument that Apple and Microsoft are merely protecting their own innovations. These companies are working together to stockpile patents from other innovators to not only prevent Google and its partners from defending themselves, but also to mount further attacks against Android through transfers to patent trolls.

http://gigaom.com/20...one-innovation/

If there was any doubt that Microsoft and Apple are toxic to innovation and cancer on the technology industry as a whole.

[Duffydemon]

Cant Blame MS or Apple ( Apple has some ridiculous patents but ignoring them ), If someone steals my work i'm gonna kick him up or simply ask for royalty for using my design because i have invested my time and resources in that design.

[Mr. Gibs]

If there was any doubt that Microsoft and Apple are toxic to innovation and cancer on the technology industry as a whole.

Yeah because Motorola abusing FRAND patents is so much better right?

Every company does this, sadly. Now they do have valuable patents that should be protected, but sometimes they sue for the stupidest reasons ever. Thank the US patent law for that, not the companies that are doing what they are meant to be doing (making money).

[Boz]

Every company does this, sadly.

No.. not every company buys patents through patent troll companies to prevent competition. Sorry. Only those who are destructive to innovation and don't know how else to fight competition that's out-innovating them but by trying to buy patents so they can prevent competition.

FRAND patents are completely different. It's about licensing already patents that truly belong to their innovator. Whether or not that innovator wants to charge more is definitely something that's negative (but doesn't happen THAT often) but certainly not destructive to innovation. The bottom line is that they do license it out unlikes what Microsoft and Apple are doing which is buying up patents to stop competition.

And maybe Apple should have paid the license to begin with instead of trying to go for a free ride and then whine when Motorola wants money in addition to licensing fees because Apple used their patents without paying for them. Seems pretty fair to me. Just because patents are covered by FRAND doesn't mean you can feel free to use them and then settle later without any consequences.. Sorry.

[Mr. Gibs]

No.. not every company buys patents through patent troll companies to prevent competition.

Every company at some point of time has taken advantage of the **** that the US patent law is.

FRAND patents are completely different. It's about licensing already patents that truly belong to their innovator. Whether or not that innovator wants to charge more is definitely something that's negative (but doesn't happen THAT often) but certainly not destructive to innovation. The bottom line is that they do license it out unlikes what Microsoft and Apple are doing which is buying up patents to stop competition.

Licensing it out?

Motorola wants Microsoft to pay $22.50 for 50 patents on a $1000 laptop ($45 for a $2000 laptop). Microsoft pays something like $0.02 to license the entire 1400 or w/e patents make up the h.264 spec. Not to mention, Microsoft has no control over the cost of the laptop and the patents Motorola own have nothing to do with the cost of a laptop either.

Reasonable and non-discriminatory terms (RAND), also known as fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms (FRAND). $22.50 isn't fair and reasonable. Sorry.

You just can't seem to admit that Google, at the end of the day, is a company just like any other company. They care about their bottom line and their shareholders. And guess what, they aren't some knight in shining armor that does no wrong.

No.. not every company buys patents through patent troll companies to prevent competition. Sorry. Only those who are destructive to innovation and don't know how else to fight competition that's out-innovating them but by trying to buy patents so they can prevent competition.

Microsoft (especially their hardware division) and Apple have done a hell of a lot more for the technology industry than Google ever has.

And maybe Apple should have paid the license to begin with instead of trying to go for a free ride and then whine when Motorola wants money in addition to licensing fees because Apple used their patents without paying for them. Seems pretty fair to me. Just because patents are covered by FRAND doesn't mean you can feel free to use them and then settle later without any consequences.. Sorry.

Oh I agree. So then Google should actually pay for all the patents that Android uses (*cough* FAT *cough*, activesync, and the whole bunch of others) rather than going for a free ride right? Right?

[Boz]

Microsoft (especially their hardware division) and Apple have done a hell of a lot more for the technology industry than Google ever has.

Like what? I'm just curious to see what they have done to move innovation and use of technology forward. I'm all ears. I've been involved with computers and technology since the days of Commodore.. Microsoft hasn't really done anything big to move forward technology.

Google has done far more in their short existence than Microsoft has done in decades. Let's take a look:

1. They absolutely elevated internet search so we can find things easier and are continuously innovating to make your searches relevant.

2. They brought us amazing maps, street view and other things that have completely changed how we experience and look at the world and literally brought us closer to places we have never been to

3. Brought an amazing mobile OS that is open and free so companies can innovate and build upon it pushing the boundaries of how we use mobile devices and even went with complete integration of technology inside our live with Android @ Home push.

4. Brought internet wide translation tools so we can read things even though we don't understand them in native language

5. Bringing fiber internet and free Wifi to American cities

6. Bringing us self-driving cars

7. Helping spread the knowledge and education by making public libraries and searches available for search

8. Revolutionized online video (even though they bought it from someone else)

and there are tons more.. but here.. don't take my word for it

Worlds Most Innovative companies

http://www.fastcompa...ative-companies

1. Google

2. Apple

...

and then others.. Microsoft is nowhere to be found.

And you know why? Because that company never led anything and has always copied and did things as a reaction and not leader. They managed to establish dominance in technology world with Windows and have been using every dirty trick in the book to stifle innovation and competition so they can keep their monopoly.

[jakem1]

If there was any doubt that Microsoft and Apple are toxic to innovation and cancer on the technology industry as a whole.

That's ridiculous. WP7 is the most innovative smartphone OS on the market today. Android, by comparison, is just a cheap rip-off of iOS which itself is in many ways not much more than an evolution of Palm Pilots.

[Boz]

Actually.. Google dropped to 3rd in 2012 but still among top 3. The previous list was from 2008. This one is from 2012

http://www.fastcompa.../2012/full-list

And Microsoft again, nowhere to be found.

That's ridiculous. WP7 is the most innovative smartphone OS on the market today.

There's nothing special about WP7. It lacks tons of features the only thing that's even mildly "innovative" is the design of the UI.. but that's not really innovation per se. Especially since it gets stale and boring after weeks of usage considering that you can't really customize anything. Even the apps all look the same. They are so behind on everything with smartphone OS that it's a joke to even mention it.

[nvllsvm]

Cant Blame MS or Apple ( Apple has some ridiculous patents but ignoring them ), If someone steals my work i'm gonna kick him up or simply ask for royalty for using my design because i have invested my time and resources in that design.

And the person you're going after invested their money in the property where this violation occurs. Thus, you are basically saying you are owed someone's physical property because they arranged it in the same configuration as your physical property.

[ichi]

WP7 is the most innovative smartphone OS on the market today.

Because it has colored tiles instead of widgets?

[jakem1]

There's nothing special about WP7. It lacks tons of features the only thing that's even mildly "innovative" is the design of the UI.. but that's not really innovation per se. Especially since it gets stale and boring after weeks of usage considering that you can't really customize anything. Even the apps all look the same. They are so behind on everything with smartphone OS that it's a joke to even mention it.

Perhaps you'd prefer Windows Phone if it was a laggy POS ;)

There's nothing stale and boring about the Windows Phone UI and the innovation extends far beyond just the UI. For example, the fact that devs can provide trial modes of full featured apps means that the marketplace isn't littered with dumbed down trial versions like you have to put up with on iOS and Android.

WP also receives updates which is probably something you're not familiar with ;)

To be honest, I don't know why you continue to defend Android given the bloated, laggy, malware infected mess that it is.

Because it has colored tiles instead of widgets?

Because some thought went into designing it.

[Boz]

To be honest, I don't know why you continue to defend Android given the bloated, laggy, malware infected mess that it is.

Because it's the most innovative, flexible and consumer centric mobile OS to date?

And as a developer I prefer it to iOS as well. Java and Android SDK is much easier to use than Obj-C and while developing for iOS is definitely not bad as it comes with packed components, views, controls and slick stuff (and Apple did a great job with Xcode), but what I can do and how I can tie my app to the OS with Android and with other apps and openness of the OS makes Android far superior. I simply don't have limitations that I have with iOS development for example.

I haven't done much development for Windows Phone (I will get into it too as time passes by) but from what I have seen due to the nature of the OS there is VERY little creativity space for apps. They all use the same UI and look which is something I'm not really interested in.

[xeleraph]

Like what? I'm just curious to see what they have done to move innovation and use of technology forward. I'm all ears. I've been involved with computers and technology since the days of Commodore.. Microsoft hasn't really done anything big to move forward technology.

Trying to answer your question is going to be entirely pointless. When revolutionizing the PC industry and the consumer operating system, and making standardized technology widely available to the masses doesn't mean anything to you you know you're talking to a fanboy who's beyond reason. Microsoft has built the foundations for virtually every piece of consumer computer tech today, including the pieces that make it possible for Google to innovate in the first place.

Google has done far more in their short existence than Microsoft has done in decades. Let's take a look:

Really? Google has revolutionized search engines; that's pretty much it. Everything else is pretty much either a fancy prototype that makes headlines but has little to no practical value, or acquired/copied from the competition and pushed it into the mainstream market. In the latter regard they're pretty much the same as what Apple is doing, with the notable exception that Google isn't claiming that it "invented" them. You should really take notice of that; Google doesn't say it created most of its "innovations", and I'm wondering why fanboys like you try to say it when Google themselves don't. The fact that Google didn't invent most of their innovations (and apparently weren't very careful about whose IP they were stealing either) is why Google is attracting lawsuits like flies. You can realize that it's not a mere coincidence that almost every major player in the industry is suing Google in some form or other... or you can be the fanboy you are. Your choice.

[Mr. Gibs]

Google has done far more in their short existence than Microsoft has done in decades. Let's take a look:

Considering the CPU and GPU you have in your PC today wouldn't exist like it does without the help of Microsoft says a lot.

1. They absolutely elevated internet search so we can find things easier and are continuously innovating to make your searches relevant.

Is that why they copy stuff from Bing all the time?

2. They brought us amazing maps, street view and other things that have completely changed how we experience and look at the world and literally brought us closer to places we have never been to

And they bought that technology from another company. But yes they improved on it and Google maps is probably the best free mapping thing out there.

4. Brought internet wide translation tools so we can read things even though we don't understand them in native language

Done well before Google did. Remember Babelfish? And before you say Google translate is better, for a long time it wasn't.

And also Microsoft's real time speech translation (found on Windows and Windows Phone) is better and more accurate than Google's ;)

5. Bringing fiber internet and free Wifi to American cities

Really? I've only read about 1 city and I don't think it's even fully operational yet.

6. Bringing us self-driving cars

BMW did it long before Google did. Other car companies have done it too.

And you know why? Because that company never led anything and has always copied and did things as a reaction and not leader. They managed to establish dominance in technology world with Windows and have been using every dirty trick in the book to stifle innovation and competition so they can keep their monopoly.

That list is full of ****. Want to know why?

Real networks, really? Real networks? and News Corp gets a mention for acquiring Myspace, yeah how well did that work out for them?

And come on they put Toyota on that list. Where's BMW, Audi and Mercedes Benz? Those companies are responsible for a lot of the things you consider standards on cars today. Toyota only started using them when they became cheaper and proven, the others spent the money and time researching it.

I haven't done much development for Windows Phone (I will get into it too as time passes by) but from what I have seen due to the nature of the OS there is VERY little creativity space for apps. They all use the same UI and look which is something I'm not really interested in.

Is that why most Windows Phone and iOS apps look better than Android apps?

[evo_spook]

The wierd thing is, many of those Google innovations were from bought companies.

[+Fahim S. MVC]

Why does Boz's flagrant famboyism drive me to want to hit someone?

We get it, you think that Google/Android/Anything you prefer to use is amazing and everything else is poor beyond belief - now get over it.

I want to see Android crash and burn not because I think it deserves to, but to see your reaction when the 'greatest thing since the wheel' crashes and burns.

[jakem1]

They all use the same UI and look which is something I'm not really interested in.

They don't all have the same UI. Rather, many apps have a consistent UI which means we don't end up with the second rate apps that Android users have to struggle with. Microsoft were sensible enough to provide developers with tools to develop consistent, touch-friendly UIs using a common set of controls and templates which leads to higher quality, user-friendly apps The dev tools are also the best in the business which makes development easier.

[xeleraph]

Is that why most Windows Phone apps look better than Android apps?

Have to quote this for its sheer truth. When you combine an open development model and half-arsed amateur developers who seem to think that they know best and revel in the fact that they're allowed to go bat**** crazy - welcome to the world of Android apps, with crashes, bizarrely different UXs, FCs, battery drain, slowdowns, wakelocks, etc etc etc. Hunting for an app on Android is never an inviting prospect, given how much crap you need to sift through before you find something half-useable (and even then there's no guarantee that it isn't quietly sucking up all your battery or doing something stupid in the background because Android apps are allowed to do virtually anything).

Google apparently had enough foresight to restrict the capabilities of extensions in Chrome (as compared to Firefox), unfortunately they didn't have enough to do the same for Android. There's a reason why Microsoft decided to follow Apple's philosophy for their SDKs and APIs, instead of emulating Android's complete cluster****.

[Matthew_Thepc]

Like what? I'm just curious to see what they have done to move innovation and use of technology forward. I'm all ears. I've been involved with computers and technology since the days of Commodore.. Microsoft hasn't really done anything big to move forward technology.

Google has done far more in their short existence than Microsoft has done in decades. Let's take a look:

1. They absolutely elevated internet search so we can find things easier and are continuously innovating to make your searches relevant

(except when they took their cues from Bing, like infinite image scroll? or the new, cleaner UI?).

2. They brought (erm, they BOUGHT it from Where 2 Technologies) us amazing maps, street view and other things that have completely changed how we experience and look at the world and literally brought us closer to places we have never been to

3. Brought (again, they BOUGHT it, though it's true that continued to build upon it a lot after they bought it :p) an amazing mobile OS that is open and free so companies can innovate and build upon it pushing the boundaries of how we use mobile devices and even went with complete integration of technology inside our live with Android @ Home push.

(not to mention doing a lot of that by illegally using patents and technologies owned and built by Microsoft and other companies O.O)

4. Brought internet wide translation tools so we can read things even though we don't understand them in native language

(machine translation wasn't anything new when google put up google translate http://en.wikipedia....ine_translation)

5. Bringing fiber internet and free Wifi to American cities

(pretty cool, this reason stands, but it's not like Microsoft hasn't ever done anything to help others :D)

6. Bringing us self-driving cars

(again, pretty cool, but then you look over at all the stuff Microsoft Research and Microsoft-sponsored contests have done and...)

7. Helping spread the knowledge and education by making public libraries and searches available for search

(and doing that by violating copyright laws http://en.wikipedia....ement_Agreement)

8. Revolutionized online video (even though they bought it from someone else)

(so if I'm Warren Buffet and I buy Google, suddenly I'm responsible for revolutionizing everything from online search to online video? it doesn't work that way.)

and there are tons more.. but here.. don't take my word for it

Worlds Most Innovative companies

http://www.fastcompa...ative-companies

1. Google

2. Apple

...

and then others.. Microsoft is nowhere to be found.

(how convienient that you're using such an old list? actually, Microsoft is 86th on Forbes' list :D and here's the 2012 Fast Company list, and here's a Gizmodo article about why Microsoft is "the most exciting company in tech, hands down" <- the author's words, not mine)

And you know why? Because that company never led anything and has always copied and did things as a reaction and not leader. They managed to establish dominance in technology world with Windows and have been using every dirty trick in the book to stifle innovation and competition so they can keep their monopoly.

I love how you say this without any facts to back it up. What about Surface? What about Xbox 360 (and the work that went into the Unified Shader Model from that?) What the hundreds of RESEARCH projects at Microsoft Research? Or the more than 10,000 RESEARCH publications from Microsoft Research? Microsoft didn't buy the Surface from anyone, they developed the Xbox 360 themselves (and the GPU that it uses in cooperation with ATI), they have 15 hundred of their OWN employees working at Microsoft Research on entirely new and innovative technologies, and you say that they copy and do things in reaction to other companies? That's just, plan and simple, bullsh*t.

-Razorfold beat me to a lot of these, but I just couldn't resist :D

[(Spork)]

To be honest, I don't know why you continue to defend Android given the bloated, laggy, malware infected mess that it is.

laggy and bloated HUH ? im running 4.1.1 on my samsung captivate and i have no lag or bloat .. no malware on my phone as well