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Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade


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#781 MorganX

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 21:11

Exactly - what gave me my own epiphany was discovering ways the Charm Bar was superior to the features it replaced and enhanced compared to a LOT of the badly-broken Start menu - and this is on a *desktop PC* (keyboard and mouse) - and that was back with the Developer Preview.


I've warmed to Windows 8 but it's this type of comment that keep some from really giving it a chance.

1) The Charm bar really doesn't replace or enhance any Start Menu features, it doesn't do much at all. It's 4 links and a start page button. You could do a WHOLE lot more with the Start Button. I'm not saying I miss any of those things at this point, just sayin ...

2) The Start Menu wasn't broken man, come on.


#782 +Chicane-UK

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 21:11

OK...

I decided to spend a few days with the Release Preview at home, prior to RTM being available. My initial impressions were favourable.. it feels fast, and in principle, I liked the idea of the new start screen rather than the start menu.

I have to say though after a bit of time just spent doing some normal things with it, it's become increasingly infuriating. And not just because I'm incapable of using a computer or adapting to a different way of doing things - but because I can't make the OS behave in a logical way. I dread to think how this is going to go down with older / more casual computer users.

Google Chrome. It now has a Metro application. If you select it as your default browser, it will insist on loading a Metro version of the app on the new start screen. Like IE, it runs full screen and runs in some kind of reduced mode so seems to be (for example) missing all my bookmarks that are present on the desktop version. This would be fine, and I'd just like the option to disable it and always make it use the desktop version of the application.. but no. There is no way.

OK I thought - so I'll go find the Chrome application and pin that to the start menu. That worked.. once.. and then when I go back to the start screen, Windows has removed it. No matter how many times I re-add it this way, it just immediately prunes it again. It *wants* me to use the Metro version whether I want to or not.

Now - I appreciate this is one application, and this is the behavior of that application more than the behavior of Windows specifically.. but if this is the way things going, I think my enthusiasm for Windows 8 is going to be very short lived :|

#783 Anthonyd

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 22:26

Now - I appreciate this is one application, and this is the behavior of that application more than the behavior of Windows specifically.. but if this is the way things going, I think my enthusiasm for Windows 8 is going to be very short lived :|

It's just Google Chrome that is bad, don't give up on Windows 8 because of a single app.

#784 BeerFan

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 22:42

No, its markedly different. I'm asking, specifically, why this singular version is putting off many that had NO prior debate of actually running the latest and greatest. I have 'qualms' about every MS OS, not ONCE has that ever made me think yea, I'll wait for the next version.

That is the question that deserves an answer and it is a new and unique phenomenon. I can't tell you how many 20 year+ industry people I've heard that exact statement from. 'This is the FIRST new edition of Windows, ever, that I won't be upgrading to at RTM'


This is exactly what I've been telling people at work since the consumer preview. I had a lot of things that bugged me about Vista, and a couple with 7. But nothing even close to the same level as 8 - like you said it's the first OS from MS that I already know I will never use as a main OS.

#785 Dot Matrix

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 22:57

CW, Win8 only loads Metro at boot. The uproar is because the desktop has been moved to 'legacy' app status in this release which is generally a signal for its expiration. Just because the button is there today doesn't mean that the fundamental shift isn't happening right now. Thats what I find frustrating, not a single proponent thinks WinRT is a replacement for the Desktop, but they are all (contradictingly) sure of 1) the Desktops guaranteed existence and 2) that the Desktop is dead.

So that remains the question, why do you think the goal is to ever integrate the 'desktop mode' into RT? A single, ubiquitous release that runs on many devices (except for, you know, the devices that make up the new markets - phones/slates), is touch optimized, and has no concept of a file system has little need for the desktop metaphor.


The desktop isn't going away. Backwards compatibility guarantees that. What I think will happen though, is that you'll see old, legacy apps get their own virtualized environment to run in, while newer stuff is ported to use the Modern APIs, while of course the Modern APIs/UI continues to advance. Look for more legacy code to be purged from Windows over the next few years.

#786 MistaT40

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:53

Loving Win 8 so far - it was a small learning curve, but once you pick things up and all - pretty neat. Can't wait to get the actual release.

#787 MorganX

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 18:16

The Charms bar does far more than that. It also has specific functionality in context to whatever app is in use. Try opening the Music app for instance and clicking on the Search Charm...it will be contextual search just for that Music app.


OK, I'll give you that, but search is still search. Contextual search is nice. Would be nice if it was contextual when in my Music Library in explorer since the Music App sucks IMO. I'm not sure I've ever played music on my PC as a main app, I'm always multitasking. Xbox, yes, PC, not so much.

Devices is pretty much worthless for 99% of users and will remain that way. Not sure why that's not buried deeper and may power or something going on Charms bar. Share is mostly a waste IMO. Would rather have the option to put something like SkyDrive there. Even in corporate environment, few users are allowed to share. None if these nit picks are major, just doesn't add much IMO. I like it, it's no Start Menu, but Start Menu isn't really needed except for long menu type stuff.

#788 MDboyz

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 18:57

Good news guys !!!

Microsoft has answered to the criers about the missing start menu. They will release special version of Windows 8 Desktop. They will change the logo and change the Win7 ISO to Win8 Desktop version. Hope everyone is happy now.

#789 BeerFan

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 19:09

Good news guys !!!

Microsoft has answered to the criers about the missing start menu. They will release special version of Windows 8 Desktop. They will change the logo and change the Win7 ISO to Win8 Desktop version. Hope everyone is happy now.


And your source for that info is...? Methinks i smell bull****.

#790 Active.

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 23:37

I don't know I am waiting for MSDN version.

No change. In fact, I can't find much of anything that has substantially changed. :/

#791 BajiRav

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 00:42

No change. In fact, I can't find much of anything that has substantially changed. :/

I still haven't finished installing :( I blew up my primary partition and then realized it's an MBR disk and to wipe out my other partition, I need to backup some stuff. Burning a Live CD now :s

#792 PGHammer

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:02

Not terrified it might be possible, but how neutered and closed the end result may be.

Maybe unlike you guys, critics actually do have the can-do-ness to want WinRT to superceed and replace Win32 entirely - except its embryonic development (and intentional limitations) is so far away from that goal that MS doesn't want to scare YOU fools with the possibility by admitting that is the long goal. There is nothing to indicate Metro can be fixed because ole Steven says he can't architect a non-Siamese solution anyway. What sense does that make from poser futurists tired of 'dull and boring'?


Actually, I agree with Steven Sinofsky - with the *current* state of development art, a full-fledged (and fully Modern UI/WinRT) version of a major application such as Photoshop isn't possible.

Also, have you ever considered that WinRT is deliberately NOT designed to be able to produce such applications?

Look at the WinRT API and especially WindowsRT in particular - neither is designed to support *heavy* (as in traditional) applications, games, or anything else - if anything, WinRT (the API) and WindowsRT (the OS) are designed to take care of the light work that is currently bogging down Win32. It's entirely possible we could see WinRT versions of several still-Win32 applets that have been included with Windows since 3.x - Notepad and Calculator in particular are prime candidates for such a swap. However, Win32 (as an API) is still quite safe. (I brought up Notepad and Calculator due to both still being in Windows 8 today, and both being still Win32.)

Another example is OneNote MX (which actually is a Modern UI app) - while quite capable, it doesn't fully replace OneNote. (It *could* replace Notepad at some point, however.) The Win32 API isn't going anywhere.

#793 scaramonga

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:26

http://www.infoworld...200113?page=0,0

#794 PGHammer

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 18:20

say what, Windows 7 doesn't need a reboot for audio drivers, neither for video drivers. it does NOT need reboots for general drivers at all anymore (shouldn't need it for any driver installs). its the OEM and manufactures with crappy written drivers that don't use the Windows driver API properly.
Nvidia still forces reboots for its video drivers, while theres no need.


The reason why Windows 7 required a reboot for audio drivers is due to the Windows Audio Service not supporting dynamic reload - WDDM 1.1 (the Windows 7 display driver standard) does. (The issue with the Windows Audio Service was, in fact, fixed in Windows 8 - however, as was the case with Windows 7, some OEMs/IHVs are late getting the news. And your statement regarding NV is indeed true; which is why I pointed out that Creative added that no-longer-needed reboot cycle in their Windows 8 drivers, which are carryover.)