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Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade


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#106 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:49

Threads like this are kind of embarassing for an enthusiast tech site. MS has no iCloud competitor (info: Apple was actually the last one to introduce their cloud-solution while MS has been one of the front-runners and will integrate it more deeply in W8)? I suddenly can't change between windows/tabs anymore with W8 (the desktop is exactly the same)? Metro is useless for desktop users but then ask for apps and features that will be delivered via announced Metro apps? What the hell is going on here, criticising is one thing and a few people make sensible points, spending no effort whatsoever to educate oneself on the other hand...


Some of the ridiculous claims people are making really do boggle the mind somewhat. It's clear they've not only never used Windows 8, but they've not even tried to research its feature list.

As for me... Well, I'm not a complete fan of the touch UI (no calling it Metro anymore, now! :p ), but I can work with it, and really, I spent 98% of my time in the desktop anyway and it took me all of 20 seconds to get the start button back so that I was back in my comfort zone. IMO, all the other new features of Win 8 more than make up for the touch UI, which really is of lesser use in a desktop environment than it is in a mobile one.

I for one WILL be installing Windows 8, but I will be keeping Windows 7 at least for a little while as my tablet drivers don't work in Win8 yet (come on Acer, move your butts!)


#107 PGHammer

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:51

There was nothing stopping Microsoft forking Windows and making a touch orientated version a la iOS. Apple did it. Or they could have just used the Windows Phone 7 code base. There's excuse for forcing this on everyone.


Nothing except Microsoft's track record at forks - absolutely awful.

In case you've forgotten, Microsoft did two forks from XP, and three from CE (which itself is a fork of the NT4 code).

1. Windows XP Tablet PC Edition and XP Media Center Edition were both forked from XP. MCE was the more successful of the two; however, even MCE was not as successful as the base XP was (primarily due to niche-ification by OEMs) - Tablet PC Edition was a disaster.

2. Windows CE was itself forked from NT4, and begat forks of its own (the best known was Windows Mobile) - it was also a colossal failure. (Windows Mobile predates - by far - Android; so why is Android trodding the same turf and succeeding?) Where CE has held on is in far smaller niches where it has no competition - not even from Android; however, will that continue? (The *current* Android series - 4.x - is, in fact, a merger of the Gingerbread/Honeycomb 3.x fork back into mainstream (Froyo) 2.x - in other words, even Android's fork failed.)

3. The only reason that iOS is successful is because of Apple's *hardware* build quality married to a closed not-quite-an-OS; remember, Apple controls *everything* about iDevices to the point that makes Google (let alone Microsoft) envy-green. iOS is a cage (although heavily gilded) - given a choice between iOS and Android (as a user), I prefer Android (though it's basically changing the size of the cage).

Lastly, there is what makes Windows successful in historical terms - Windows is successful by not being biased in terms of input acceptance. It's always been a generalist operating environment (and later, a generalist/multipurpose operating system) - Windows 2000 Professional was the direct ancestor to Windows XP, and is itself not given anywhere near the credit it deserves, as, other than the slight UI change from 2000 to XP, the core of XP actually cxhanged very little from that of Windows 2000 Professional. Windows is not a cage (inlike the forks or alternatives) - that's why it succeeds.

Windwos 8 forgot exactly none of that. A fork would be repeating history - and have we forgotten the proverb about what happens to those that fail to learn from the mistakes of history?

#108 Spawn1905

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:53

Using Win 8 RTM on my Aus eee core i5 slate and to be honest, I could not go back to Win 7. Still run Win 7 on my PC but that will change. I have barely touched my PC since loading it on my slate. I am surprised I am saying it. But I think it is pretty darn good.

#109 +zhiVago

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:56

There was nothing stopping Microsoft forking Windows and making a touch orientated version a la iOS. Apple did it. Or they could have just used the Windows Phone 7 code base. There's no excuse for forcing this on everyone.


How is it forced? How does it affect you?

It's going to be a long time before ordinary consumers will be able to afford something like that. LCD screens are still way too expensive. Imagine the price of one the size of a desk? And even then, who's going to want to bend their neck for hours? Or get limp arms trying to reach across the whole desk constantly. Ι'm not saying something like that won't happen, but ergonomically and financially, it's no where near practical at the moment or in half a decade.


Its usability depends on the application at hand and there are already affordable desktop screens out there with touch functionality.

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#110 vetCalum

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:58

There was nothing stopping Microsoft forking Windows and making a touch orientated version a la iOS. Apple did it. Or they could have just used the Windows Phone 7 code base. There's no excuse for forcing this on everyone.

There would be a problem if they didn't "force" this on us: My desktop operating system wouldn't provide a consistent workflow and design to my tablet operating system and my phone operating system.

You've probably identified the problem while reading this: Microsoft cannot please everyone.

#111 PGHammer

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:00

You must have not used Server 08, 12 or Exchange/SharePoint 2010. PowerShell itself is moving us toward command line controls.


PowerShell was launched clear back with Windows XP Service Pack 2/Server 2003 as a generalist scripting language and has *always* been compatible with/available for desktop Windows - Windows 8 is actually the first desktop flavor to include it. The only reason it hasn't taken hold on the desktop is user resistance. Server admins use WPS for remote administration (which is, in fact, the focus behind most of the *canned scripts* available for WPS today) - a lot of the WPS scripts highlighted for use in Windows 8, in fact, came directly from the Server side of Windows due to server-side features migrating to the desktop (such as Hyper-V). WPS is a straight-up alternative to Visual Basic Script (which predates WPS in that role) and is, in fact, meant to replace it in that role. So in that sense WPS is far from a new feature - just a massively underused one.

#112 Dot Matrix

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:02

I tried the RTM yesterday evening and I have to say this is the worst thing Microsoft have ever done by far. There is no reason at all for me to upgrade to this. I mean really what new features are there? A new UI on Explorer? Task Manager? Metro? Is that all? This OS is a total joke.

This OS feels like Microsoft throwing us under the bus (pre-existing users of Windows) to try and get in to the tablet market. Leveraging their desktop monopoly to give developers incentive to make Metro apps because they know that without that large desktop market share developers will find it difficult to find reasons to invest in making Metro apps. Why develop for a tablet that will only capture 1 maybe 2% of the market?

And well on the desktop it just sucks. It doesn't work man, giant UI buttons, 2D boxes, removal of the start menu. We use keyboards and mice on our desktops not fat fingers. This whole UI just doesn't work and it feels unfinished, half baked, confused about what it is. The fact it has two separate environments for a start just adds an extra layer of complexity to an already confused operating system.

I really fail to understand how Microsoft ever thought this was a good idea. I mean really.. who is running things over there?

"Hey guys I got a great idea, let's take the UI that hasn't got even garnered 2% share on mobile after a year in the market and put it on our main Windows product! Nothing could go wrong with that! - Also lets spend practically all our time porting that UI over and offer almost no other new features - No Time Machine, iTunes or iCloud competitor, no one needs those anyways what they need is giant boxes and an extra toolbox in Explorer!"


You're quick to slam Windows 8, but going by your post, you clearly have no idea what you're even talking about.

Time Machine? File History. Boom.
iCloud? SkyDrive + MicrosoftID. Boom.
iTunes? Xbox Music. Boom.

Any other features you care to slam without knowing what you're talking about?

#113 vetneufuse

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:02

We already had our upgrade meetings at work, and Windows 8 has already been put on the do not upgrade to list... we used it in test labs since the first dev preview, had it on our workstations since the last preview release, and RTM isn't any more suited more then likely... so looks like this year we switch the last of the systems to windows 7 and hold off for 2yrs to the next version

#114 Shaun N.

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:05

We already had our upgrade meetings at work, and Windows 8 has already been put on the do not upgrade to list... we used it in test labs since the first dev preview, had it on our workstations since the last preview release, and RTM isn't any more suited more then likely... so looks like this year we switch the last of the systems to windows 7 and hold off for 2yrs to the next version


This is the same for my company.

#115 rkenshin

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:05

We already had our upgrade meetings at work, and Windows 8 has already been put on the do not upgrade to list... we used it in test labs since the first dev preview, had it on our workstations since the last preview release, and RTM isn't any more suited more then likely... so looks like this year we switch the last of the systems to windows 7 and hold off for 2yrs to the next version


Geez, my organization is just starting to switch from XP to 7. We're a bit behind in the times. We have no interest in 8. For my home PC, however, I do. As much as the negativity surrounding it, I personally like it. :D

#116 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:08

We already had our upgrade meetings at work, and Windows 8 has already been put on the do not upgrade to list... we used it in test labs since the first dev preview, had it on our workstations since the last preview release, and RTM isn't any more suited more then likely... so looks like this year we switch the last of the systems to windows 7 and hold off for 2yrs to the next version


To be fair, most businesses upgrade on a 2 or 3 year cycle, so it's standard practice to skip a Windows version; hence going from XP to Windows 7. Next one to go to will be Windows 9.

Microsoft know this VERY well, which is why Windows 8 is so consumer centric.

#117 +Vykranth

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:19

Do people really want touch on desktop screens though? Of course on a tablet / mobile device it's essential - but in terms of using my PC I find the keyboard and mouse a powerful and comfortable way of interacting. I don't feel the urge to reach across the desk and start wiping my fingers across the screen.. it'll make it messy and it'll be uncomfortable.


Exactly, while I am typing this post, my arms are resting on my desk, my mouse is a 10 centimers away from my left hand.
I cannot imagine myself raising and lowering my arms back and forth to touch my screens, especially to reach the further part away.
Instead of carpal tunnel syndrome, we are going to have computer elbow syndromes.

I wonder if people reacted the same way to 95 / NT4 and the new Taskbar / Start Menu. Did people swear to not give up Program Manager until it was pried from their cold dead hands? Some people still cling to it.


I remember that change. I remember installing 95 for the first time: getting the green desktop, the taskbar and the Start Menu.
I remember asking myself: "OK, how do I start applications?", then I clicked on the start menu and found the 'Programs' and 'Documents' menu.
After 5 minutes, I said to myself: this is much easier to use than progman.exe and winfile.exe.
I found that was an improvement.

There are a lot of people who prefer old UI concepts. I saw one of my colleague used a Norton Commander fil manager recently. I asked her: "Why do you use such a tools?". Her answer was: "The Windows Explorer is not good enough for me"

It is a personal thing. Microsoft proposes a UI shift in Windows 8, some people like it, other do not.

#118 vetneufuse

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:31

To be fair, most businesses upgrade on a 2 or 3 year cycle, so it's standard practice to skip a Windows version; hence going from XP to Windows 7. Next one to go to will be Windows 9.

Microsoft know this VERY well, which is why Windows 8 is so consumer centric.


we were on windows xp... this isn't a 2yr upgrade cycle for us, we just decided to put the workstations on windows 7 instead of going to 8... right now we still have 200+ systems on windows xp, and only 20 on windows 7 (and thats because they where new systems)

#119 FloatingFatMan

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:35

we were on windows xp... this isn't a 2yr upgrade cycle for us, we just decided to put the workstations on windows 7 instead of going to 8... right now we still have 200+ systems on windows xp, and only 20 on windows 7 (and thats because they where new systems)


It's also fairly common that businesses don't move to a new OS until the first service pack. They certainly NEVER jump to one just released; that would be dumber than dumb.

The only businesses that'll be going to Windows 8, are those that will be developing for it.

#120 Arceles

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 13:37

Well, I'm an old user. Tested Win 3.11 on my fathers company... it had colors! something that MSDOS didn't had.

Later my 486SX was upgraded to Win95, it had more colors but the whole UI changed, more like it is up until Win7, still lots and lots of MSDOS usage but it was nice to have an "explorer" to work with the files, no more "C:, cd documents, cd... etc".

Installed Win98 through floppy disk and WinRAR MSDos edition... took nearly 100 copy and paste, fully using 3 new Verbatim floppy disk until their end of life. The interface was the same but software begin to catch up, more intuitive, games where already more interesting, internet was the fashion, MSDOS usage got reduced but still a lot depended on.

Installed Windows Millennium Edition, didn't had as many problems as others but Internet Explorer crashed every single time by no reason, had to live with the "Internet Explorer has encountered an error and will close" dialog next to me as my daily internet experience, outside of that the OS fell good to me and felt more like an improvement than a dragging, it had support even for USB sticks... which Windows 98 didn't had.

Moved to Windows XP, it was far more cooler than WinME but my Compaq 5253, with 350Mhz AMD K6-2, ATI Rage 4mb video and 64mb RAM just couldn't move anymore (at the beginning only the OS was OK but programs god rapidly more RAM demanding than ever), felt slow but still I liked it a lot, moved to Windows 2000... both OSes didn't ran any games at the beginning, but by then emulators were also kind of popular, had really good times with both OSes... (Win2000 is like WinME with far more stability and programs became more and more compatible with it thanks to WinXP)

Windows Vista came, it was really slow on my Pentium 4 3.0 Ghz, 500 mb of RAM and Radeon 9200 LE (128 video), didn't had Aero but shortly after that I got my first laptop, an Inspiron 1501, Turion64 x2 (TL-58), Radeon xpress 1150 and 1 gig of RAM double channel, instantly went to 64 bit version and oh god, such awesomeness, such stability and such graphics, that OS shown the world two things: 1.- it was slow as hell and machines needed to be by standard more capable than almost everything you could find at the stores (at the beginning, even with brand new machines with the intel integrated graphics card fiasco) 2.- An OS could be fun, it didn't need to become boring, you could even customize it with different themes, like the ones that made Neowin so popular. Nonetheless I really liked that OS and I made every single program that I wanted to run... to run on windows vista, even if there were so many complains about not being compatible, I just wanted to shown everybody how good that OS was with a decent computer.

Windows 7 came, at first for a BIOS problem didn't ran well on my laptop (video corruption eventually leading to BSOD by no apparent reason, went back almost to the very first BIOS released for my inspiron 1501 to resolve this) but nevertheless it felt light, it felt better, it felt like a natural improvement of Windows Vista and felt even more refreshing. Hardly had any compatibility problem, games ran fine and emulators too, my engineering programs behaved the same way. my graphics card was already quite outdated but still ran Aero very, very well unlike some Nvidias which continued to struggle back then to properly show an aero experience, let's not talk about intel integrated graphics, they still struggle even today. It was natural and perfected evolution.

Tested Windows 8 RTM this week, installer resembled that of Win7 except for the background which now is completely flat and ugly, almost same setup anyway. Installation went smooth and with no problems although more slow than that of Win7... but at least detects USB 3.0 on setup (allowed my mouse to run trough a USB 3.0 hub), already on desktop, still Aero on taskbar, no start menu, blue interface. Darn is annoying to work on desktop because of the full screen start menu, darn is hard to press a program on the taskbar due that ridiculous big button "start" that appears out of nowhere, to do exactly the same that one can do with the charms bar. Darn again, pressed the start menu... alright, let's move the taskbar upwards so I don't press that damn button. My eyes are bleeding, so much white... let's change the background, better, a bit better but still too much white. Fells fast... good. Install drivers... everything good on my current laptop (see signature) install basic programs, darn "start" button again, should have gone and only allow the charm bar to be in there, is that hard to make it like the xlaunchpad? xlaunchpad can be summoned with just putting the mouse pointer in any corner of the screen, with no more movement, I have it on win7 on the lower right corner, bam, launcher as it should be. Basic programs installed... what!? why the hell my K10STAT doesn't start automatically even when put on "startup" folder? never resolved this part, had to put a shortcut on the startmenu just to call it each time I started the PC... annoying but passable. installed more programs, restarting is a pain through the charms bar... Alt+F4 only make it more slow too, office 2010... some engineering programs, suddenly windows is not too fast, it behaved and started exactly like win7, alright... tried to install max payne 3, didn't worked.

Got tired of it, to much flat, to much "trying to change my paradigm" to go according win8, to much time lost and I couldn't play MP3, tried to run MSI Kombustor... doesn't detect Direct X11 API... whatever, installed Windows 7, oh hell, fells exactly like Win8 with all my programs installed and no compatibility problems. Why the hell I was testing Windows 8 then? For the illusion of a good OS just like vista was... it isn't, Windows Vista slowness was exceeded by its impressive stability, x64 support and innovative graphics and overall design... Windows 8 has nothing new except being fast, is just Vista on steroids with an horrible makeup. My illusion is gone, windows 8 is gone for me also. DRM? No thanks MS, I see your activation options, you can put that on your A**, I got a nice Windows 7 Pro thanks to technet and my university, I think I will keep that until Win9 comes... dreaming is free.

I came to the conclusion that those who thinks that Windows 8 is innovative... never in their life used another launcher on windows, for example like rocket dock or xwidget or xlaunchpad, they just like it because is offered first party but they never cared to search it third party. Paradigm? ha! I like them to use my full blown 7 experience with my launchers and no desktop icons, far better pleasuring for me but because they don't know it they will think "it has no standard", and yet, for me... it's fast.