I know a guy who believes in Jesus but thinks religion is bull.


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Very easy, I believe in Jesus Christ as my Saviour, I'm also smart enough to know that most Churches don't actually follow the teachings of Jesus and are generally in it for the money or to control those that don't pay attention or those who haven't actually read the Bible. I've been to many "Christian" churches of varying denominations, and they are all generally driven by greed or control, so I choose to avoid them all

And don't get me started on this whole "unquestionable Word of God" bit, the Bible has been mis translated for centuries to accommodate whoever was in charge at the moment, it's an interesting read, has tons of good stuff in it, but it sure as hell isn't some "Sacred Scripture" like many claim, and neither are any other religious texts

you believe in Jesus but not not any of the writings? :) how does that even make sense?
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Pretty much every serious, mainstream historian will disagree with you on that. One alternative document that springs to mind is Josephus. There are a couple of mentions of Jesus in his writings that may not be authentic, but there are also some which are considered to be original. See this: http://en.wikipedia....sephus_on_Jesus

And also, why would anyone make up an extremely poor, pacifistic man with unpopular views who died a humiliating death as their god?

None of that is proof, which is what xpablo stated exists. It may be a consensus among historians that he probably existed, but there is no actual proof of his existence.

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Jesus never existed in real life, he only existed in a mythical realm... at least according to the founder of Christianity.

"If Jesus had been on earth, he would not even have been a priest." Hebrews 8:4

When you actually do the research the likelihood of Jesus ever existing is extremely small.

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you believe in Jesus but not not any of the writings? :) how does that even make sense?

I said it wasn't any kind of divine writings, God did not write the Bible, the Bible is a collection of writings inspired by God and Jesus's actions, not a hard concept to comprehend

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I said it wasn't any kind of divine writings, God did not write the Bible, the Bible is a collection of writings inspired by God and Jesus's actions, not a hard concept to comprehend

all writing about religion is from man but you still believe in Jesus? How can you believe about something that is only known to you through writings in which you "don't" believe? Without the writings, you wouldn't even know about the name.
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None of that is proof, which is what xpablo stated exists. It may be a consensus among historians that he probably existed, but there is no actual proof of his existence.

If you're not going to accept period documentation as 'proof,' then you can throw pretty much everything you haven't witnessed with your own eyes out the window.

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If you're not going to accept period documentation as 'proof,' then you can throw pretty much everything you haven't witnessed with your own eyes out the window.

Are you talking about the gospels, which were written over 100 years after Jesus' death?

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Are you talking about the gospels, which were written over 100 years after Jesus' death?

There's been hundreds of studies done showing atheists and agnostics know more about Christianity than Christians do. Don't even bother trying to convince them...

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Are you talking about the gospels, which were written over 100 years after Jesus' death?

I was talking about Josephus, a (more or less) secular historian, and most definitely not a Christian writer.

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Pretty much every serious, mainstream historian will disagree with you on that. One alternative document that springs to mind is Josephus. There are a couple of mentions of Jesus in his writings that may not be authentic, but there are also some which are considered to be original. See this: http://en.wikipedia....sephus_on_Jesus

And also, why would anyone make up an extremely poor, pacifistic man with unpopular views who died a humiliating death as their god?

I would expect at least SOME research from a reporter. When we talk about Egyptians, Greeks, Persians, Pagans, etc., we usually use B.C. (Before Christ). All those nations had their religions, stories, myths and whatnot. Bible was just an RSS news aggregator of that time. All they did was changing names, locations, etc. Practically every story from the bible was already written before. So I'm asking you, do you believe in Santa? Of course not (I hope so), because Santa is a story for little kids. We see and understand our world completely different than people were seeing it back then. They couldn't explain floods, storms, snow, whatever. So they created all those imaginary beings. And that's it. I simply can't understand how people still believe in all those retarded fairy tales.

Wake. Up. Stop spreading lies. Because there is NO God, NO Alah, NO Buda, NO millions of Hindu gods, NO Satan, NO whatever. Just... stories.

I suggest you watch these movies:

Root of all evil? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0774118/

Religulous http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815241/

Jesus camp (it's disgusting what they do to those kids there) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486358/

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Isn't the story of Jesus told in the bible, which is a religious book itself?

I'm the same as this person that you know. Jesus was a person in history, but I am an atheist. It's well understood that Jesus was a person, he just didn't necessarily do what the bible says he did.

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The bible and its "stories" are about as real and true as the Harry potter series. Most read fictional book ever.

Damn look at the book of mormon....Not only those crazy fools think that Adam and Eve existed but lived here in North America.

The bible was written to create some sense of social order in times that were very barbaric.

I think what the "OP" is saying is that his friend or whatever belives in jesus but does not believe in organized "guilt" religion.

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Jesus never existed in real life, he only existed in a mythical realm... at least according to the founder of Christianity.

"If Jesus had been on earth, he would not even have been a priest." Hebrews 8:4

Regardless of what you believe, this is not what that verse actually reads, neither is the author of Hebrews THE founder of Christianity.

The actual text is: "If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law."

I'm sure you can make a point without twisting the facts, no?

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I beleive Jesus existed, but not the coming back to life etc.....

After that is too much supernatural and religious lark for me, which is all superstition and only for the weak to believe in (IMO)

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Jesus is a proven historical person. So there is no question that he existed and was crucified, but was he the son of God?

being raised a catholic , but i'm not religious since my teens, I will accept the fact that Jesus existed, but I don't worship him

or god, some people like to believe Jesus is god and all that stuff I won;t get into.

Too me Jesus was just an evangelist preacher, with many followers.

Proven? ive never seen proof ::goes to look:: can you provide me with some proof of his existence outside of the Bible or Christianity?

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Proven? ive never seen proof ::goes to look:: can you provide me with some proof of his existence outside of the Bible or Christianity?

While I agree that you cannot definitively prove Jesus's existence, we can say with a level of certainty that he was a real person. I know we shouldn't normally rely on wikipedia, but this article seems quite well sourced and explains the possibility of Jesus as a real person. Check it out

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Damn look at the book of mormon....Not only those crazy fools think that Adam and Eve existed but lived here in North America.

Don't compare the Bible and the book of Mormon. The book of Mormon was written by a pedophile nutter in the 1800s, the Bible, well, do some research and decide for yourself on that. The book of Mormon is basically fan fiction.

"If Jesus had been on earth, he would not even have been a priest." Hebrews 8:4

Man you are reeeeeally reaching on that one. Do some exegesis and come back to me.

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Didn't the Quran also have references to Jesus? I'm pretty sure they weren't Christians.. :p

It does, but that doesn't mean he was definitely a real person (although I do suspect he did exist) :)

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While I agree that you cannot definitively prove Jesus's existence, we can say with a level of certainty that he was a real person. I know we shouldn't normally rely on wikipedia, but this article seems quite well sourced and explains the possibility of Jesus as a real person. Check it out

i read that earlier. there are a lot of sources in that article, but there's no proof. i dont have the time, or will, to start reading those sources, unfortunately. That article, however, shows no proof but conjecture and "scholars widely believe" comments.

And then the article shows various points from other ancient authors or works:

The Talmud - "In some cases, it is not clear if the references are to Jesus, or other people, and scholars continue to debate their historical value, and exactly which references, if any, may be to Jesus"

Suetonius - "This passage shows the clear contempt of Suetonius for Christians - the same contempt expressed by Tacitus and Pliny the younger in their writings, but does not refer to Jesus himself"

Mara bar Sarapion - "Scholars such as Robert Van Voorst see little doubt that the reference to the execution of the "king of the Jews" is about the death of Jesus.Others such as Craig A. Evans see less value in the letter, given its uncertain date, and the possible ambiguity in the reference"

Peripheral sources - no proof there

Then later in the article they start talking about the Gospels, Christian evidence and post-Resurrection Gnostic references.

So, my search continues. i'll pursue sites other than Wiki

(edit) this site, while maybe biased, has some good information about the existence of Jesus http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_historical_existence_of_Jesus_Christ

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i read that earlier. there are a lot of sources in that article, but there's no proof.

Oh no, I completely agree that there is no proof. The point I was making is that it is widely accepted that there was a man called Jesus around the time of Christianity. Statistically speaking it is almost impossible that there wasn't someone around that time called Jesus. The difference though is that the rational person understands that he didn't do all of the things that the bible says he did.

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Wake. Up. Stop spreading lies. Because there is NO God, NO Alah, NO Buda, NO millions of Hindu gods, NO Satan, NO whatever. Just... stories.

First off, who said anything about the Bible? I was talking about historical fact (that a teacher named Jesus existed and was crucified in the early 30s AD. No one said anything else. Any serious scholar will tell you that that is considered to be factual, and that it is attested to by period secular documents.

Secondly, Buddha also existed, although he was quite a bit older than Christ. His name was Siddhattha Gotama, and most historians will back me up on that, too. Santa also existed. His name was Nikolaos of Myra, and he had a broken nose.

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Secondly, Buddha also existed, although he was quite a bit older than Christ. His name was Siddhattha Gotama, and mat historians will back me up on that, too. Santa also existed. His name was Nikolaos of Myra, and he had a broken nose.

you are right. Buddha did exist.

did you mean Santa or Satan - either could be widely debated too :happy:

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