Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
neufuse

'Hold down the fort' racially offensive

56 posts in this topic

To "hold the fort" is the correct phrase. No idea where this stray "down" comes from.

Anyway, NO it is not culturally or racially offensive. Why? Because no single culture or race has ever been the only ones to attack a fort. We had forts/fortresses/castles/bastilles/etc in Europe and around the rest of the world long before America was a glimmer in the eye of a disillusioned Brit with a penchant for sailing and scurvy!

They're interchangeable really, as I've heard both terms quite often throughout my life.

Either way, it's just a bunch of PC nonsense. I'd love to meet this thin skinned idiot that sits each day trying to figure out what people should and shouldn't say...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So tired of political correctness and lack of common sense..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is offensive, that is offensive

people just need to GTF over themselves and join the present instead of living in the F**KING Past, and quit being such pricks to where anything they see is offensive to them.

pretty soon its going to be where people are not allowed to talk or do anything for fear of offending anybody, or it be illegal because it did

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jerry can / jerry rig can be added to that list too.

It's Jury Rig. which isn't offensive.

You might be confusing that with Jerrymandering, which also isn't any more offensive than 'ponzi scheme' or 'pepper's ghost'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the future of America.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're interchangeable really, as I've heard both terms quite often throughout my life.

Just because you've heard "hold down the fort" used doesn't make it any less wrong. The term is "hold the fort" as in, keep it. Don't let it go. Like if somebody asks you to hold their dog lead for a bit while they nip into a shop for a drink. They wouldn't say can you "hold down the dog lead" would they? No. Meaningless. Stop it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because you've heard "hold down the fort" used doesn't make it any less wrong. The term is "hold the fort" as in, keep it. Don't let it go. Like if somebody asks you to hold their dog lead for a bit while they nip into a shop for a drink. They wouldn't say can you "hold down the dog lead" would they? No. Meaningless. Stop it.

But I've actually had to 'hold down the fort' when we had a basex tent (used as our Systems Command and Control Center) get picked up by a dust storm while we were packing it away. Needless to say, Dust storm 1, me, nil. I finally let go when I got about 15 feet in the air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's Jury Rig. which isn't offensive.

You might be confusing that with Jerrymandering, which also isn't any more offensive than 'ponzi scheme' or 'pepper's ghost'.

It's either.

And jerrymadnering is definitely gerrymandering. Jerry can comes from US/British troops appropriating the gas canisters from Germans during World War II. Jerry rigging is a malapropism of jury rig.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.... this is just ridiculous!!! .... didnt know about the rule of thumb tho...! interesting... dont think the missus will agree tho! :)

There are actually several different possible origins of the term, that is only one of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just because you've heard "hold down the fort" used doesn't make it any less wrong. The term is "hold the fort" as in, keep it. Don't let it go. Like if somebody asks you to hold their dog lead for a bit while they nip into a shop for a drink. They wouldn't say can you "hold down the dog lead" would they? No. Meaningless. Stop it.

I suppose saying favourite without the 'u' is wrong too? :rolleyes:

Language changes over time, as do the meanings to words, phrases, and so forth. There are numerous things we say today that have derived from how people used to speak just the same, including things that have transferred over different languages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is like when they wanted to stop using master and slave hard drive settings because they thought it was offensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's either.

And jerrymadnering is definitely gerrymandering. Jerry can comes from US/British troops appropriating the gas canisters from Germans during World War II. Jerry rigging is a malapropism of jury rig.

Thanks for that, didn't realize my spelling was off.

Also didn't know about the british reference. You learn something new everyday! Still not offensive, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think instead of us spending so much time banning phrases and trying not to offend anyone, we should concentrate that energy on telling people to grow the f*** up. You're offended, well, get over it.

(I lol'd at the original article, though. I saw a sign talking about "going Dutch" in a restaurant in the Netherlands. If they're cool with it, the US needs to stop getting bent out of shape about it supposedly on their behalf. How vapid and meaningless does your life have to be for you to spend all your energy worrying about this crap?)

*pant, pant, pant, calm down*

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The expression "hold down the fort" actually became popular from an order given by Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman during the Civil War.

"Hold down the fort" is a variation. The original use of the phrase "hold the fort" was a military order wired by Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman in 1864 to Gen. John M. Corse at Allatoona during the Civil War. "Records show that the actual words had been 'Hold out, relief is coming,' but 'fort' is what caught on and was further popularized when it was made the refrain of a gospel song by Philip Paul Bliss."
http://www.phrases.o...ssages/937.html

Attacks by natives would have been more likely been raids on colonial settlements -- not on forts, which only have strategic value in a war. In which case, they would have said "man the stockades!", not "hold the fort!" (Anyone here play Sid Meier's Colonization ?)

The "rule of thumb" thing was long debunked as nonsense. http://www.straightd...ng-wife-beating

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose saying favourite without the 'u' is wrong too? :rolleyes:

Language changes over time, as do the meanings to words, phrases, and so forth. There are numerous things we say today that have derived from how people used to speak just the same, including things that have transferred over different languages.

Words changing spelling over time is entirely different to changing the fundamental meaning of a phrase lol As David Mitchell said, forts are not giant inflatables that you need to hold down (with the possible exception of actual inflatable (bouncy) castles hehe).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think everything is contextual "hold down the fort" now has nothing to do with the native americans its literally a term in its own right. I am shocked at "handicap" and its history can someone clear somthing up for me is this word still in common use in america? I am "disabled" the current term that is socially acceptable for us.... "handicap-ed" would be seen as very outdated, mabye not offensive to some but certainly incorrect.

*sidenote not to say i like the word disabled but then i dont like all these new other proactive terms just as "differently abled" but "handicap" is very outdated.

However we did take the decision to play "Spasticus Autisticus" at the opening of the "paralympics" let it be known not all disabled people I doubt even a majority care for such words being brodcast to millions. I am disabled, no where not a race I have no need or feeling to reclaim such terms or poke fun at my/our selves. Anyway slightly off topic rant but in my view it (the paralympic opening) set us apart as some kind of seprate race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there's people that can find eating and drinking and breathing offensive too. god people are pathetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that, didn't realize my spelling was off.

Also didn't know about the british reference. You learn something new everyday! Still not offensive, though.

Call a German a Jerry and see how they like it. :laugh:

The Allied forces called them Jerry cans because they were stealing them from the Germans, and that was the derogatory term for German people at the time. They brought them back and said, "hey these cans are pretty good," started making them at home, and just named them jerrycans.

Same thing with jerry-rig, it referred to the Germans repairing their equipment with whatever they could find.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL, I've said hold down the fort to my woman and she's 100% American Indian. Sioux to be exact, she never thought of it as being offensive. Hold on let me go ask her.. Nope still not offensive lol.

Hold "down" the fort? Do you have an inflatable hover fort, once relieved of your weight will float away? :rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think instead of us spending so much time banning phrases and trying not to offend anyone, we should concentrate that energy on telling people to grow the f*** up. You're offended, well, get over it.

(I lol'd at the original article, though. I saw a sign talking about "going Dutch" in a restaurant in the Netherlands. If they're cool with it, the US needs to stop getting bent out of shape about it supposedly on their behalf. How vapid and meaningless does your life have to be for you to spend all your energy worrying about this crap?)

*pant, pant, pant, calm down*

I'm offended by peoples taking offense to things they shouldn't even be offended by.

Hold "down" the fort? Do you have an inflatable hover fort, once relieved of your weight will float away? :rofl:

That would explain the obesity epidemic. Everyone just wants to hold down the fort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Words changing spelling over time is entirely different to changing the fundamental meaning of a phrase lol As David Mitchell said, forts are not giant inflatables that you need to hold down (with the possible exception of actual inflatable (bouncy) castles hehe).

So you've never had anyone tell you to hold things down while they run an errand or something? That is, to ensure chaos doesn't ensue upon their departure?

Words change meaning, which can change a phrase. My comparison to spelling had to do with what defines something as right or wrong. If more people do something one way than the other, does it make the minority wrong? Or does the majority remain wrong? Personally, I say you can't judge either as right or wrong, but rather it depends on where you live in some cases, just as you wouldn't come to the south to tell someone "ain't ain't a word ya idjit!" :p

And I'll agree, not everything makes sense. There are plenty of holes in the language we use. 'Irregardless' easily comes to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you've never had anyone tell you to hold things down while they run an errand or something? That is, to ensure chaos doesn't ensue upon their departure?

Words change meaning, which can change a phrase. My comparison to spelling had to do with what defines something as right or wrong. If more people do something one way than the other, does it make the minority wrong? Or does the majority remain wrong? Personally, I say you can't judge either as right or wrong, but rather it depends on where you live in some cases, just as you wouldn't come to the south to tell someone "ain't ain't a word ya idjit!" :p

And I'll agree, not everything makes sense. There are plenty of holes in the language we use. 'Irregardless' easily comes to mind.

I've never heard that before, supposed to be a combination of irrespective and regardless?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never heard that before, supposed to be a combination of irrespective and regardless?

Just means not regarding to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just means not regarding to me.

What!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actualy was the statement Washington said to his generals during the long winter at Valley Forge. So this is simple case of the State department not digging far enough. If anything it is. Anti-Brittish. Also I believe the terms were used before then

He was quoted as telling his men to "Hold the fort."

And later during the Civil War...

An order given by General William Tecumseh Sherman in 1864, which was repeated as "Hold the fort (the enemy at Allatoona) at all costs, for I am coming."

This order was given to General John M. Corse Union Army

That enemy was the Confederate army under the command of then Major Samuel Gibbs French.... (later promoted to Major General)

This can not be true because "DOWN" was not something that people would have said during the time--- so their claim is a...

major fail...

The term sounds more like it comes from Hollywood than anything else-- Something John Wayne would have said in a movie...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.