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Everyone says they feel safe in the u.k when they reply back to me on something gun related. I guess they've never lived in Manchester.

really i don't feel very safe not sure where they live but i have heard that we have had a drive by and there is a road sign here with a bullet hole in it.

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Hardened or not the criminal still got access to the gun. Proving that if someone wants a gun bad enough they will get it regardless of the law.

That is completely irrelevant to the point I made. Although we still have tragic events like this the UK is still safer as a result of current restrictions. Criminals are still able to get hold of illegal weapons but it is dramatically more difficult to do so, which in turn reduces the risk to the public. The police also take a very tough stance of firearms offences, which again minimises the risk to the public. You repeat the same rhetoric but fail to appreciate that the UK is safer because of current laws.

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That is completely irrelevant to the point I made. Although we still have tragic events like this the UK is still safer as a result of current restrictions. Criminals are still able to get hold of illegal weapons but it is dramatically more difficult to do so, which in turn reduces the risk to the public. The police also take a very tough stance of firearms offences, which again minimises the risk to the public. You repeat the same rhetoric but fail to appreciate that the UK is safer because of current laws.

You fail to appreciate anything we have to say as well. You point to the U.K and act as if the same thing could be done universally which is not the case its not as simplistic as that. Criminals don't care about tough laws if they did this person wouldn't have killed these two people. This guy is a mad man the same type of person that shot those people in colorado and if i was a betting man i'd bet he would of killed more than those two officers if he was given the chance. Laws will never stop mad men.

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Criminals don't care about tough laws if they did this person wouldn't have killed these two people.

And yet the UK and other European countries are safer. You're advocating a failed policy.

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This guy is a mad man the same type of person that shot those people in colorado and if i was a betting man i'd bet he would of killed more than those two officers if he was given the chance. Laws will never stop mad men.

He turned himself in ...

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He turned himself in ...

The guy that shot the people in colorado surrendered to the cops...

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Hardened or not the criminal still got access to the gun. Proving that if someone wants a gun bad enough they will get it regardless of the law.

Guns are not illegal here, many grades of firearm are legally obtainable.

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Guns are not illegal here, many grades of firearm are legally obtainable.

Save yourself the bother, I've already made the same point numerous times.

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Guns are not illegal here, many grades of firearm are legally obtainable.

I never said they were. It's just so tough that the average citizen doesn't go through the hassle of getting one. Where as a criminal could get one easily if they so choose to. If you don't think someone could easily go down a back ally in manchester and buy a gun then you're naive.

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if i was a betting man i'd bet he would of killed more than those two officers if he was given the chance. Laws will never stop mad men.

I mean the guy who killed the two police officers turned himself into a local police station.

I never said they were. It's just so tough that the average citizen doesn't go through the hassle of getting one. Where as a criminal could get one easily if they so choose to. If you don't think someone could easily go down a back ally in manchester and buy a gun then you're naive.

If the person doesn't want to go through the stringent requirements for owning a gun it can't be that important to them. Laws are broken no matter how much they're enforced and this being national news in the UK shows what a rarity things like this are here.

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Yet again you fail to comprehend what i'm talking about. Ghetto is ghetto. You're not safe in the ghetto and if you think so you're in denial. Ghettos have low home values for a reason.

How can anyone comprehend what you are talking about? It's hard to comprehend bull ****.

Other countries don't have the same mentality as the US so a ghetto in the States is NOT the same thing as one in Europe.

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I never said they were. It's just so tough that the average citizen doesn't go through the hassle of getting one. Where as a criminal could get one easily if they so choose to. If you don't think someone could easily go down a back ally in manchester and buy a gun then you're naive.

That's pure speculation. You have offered nothing to support the notion that firearms are as easy to get hold of by criminals as they are in the US - everything points to it being much more difficult, though obviously not impossible. Just because you state it does not mean that it's true. If they were as easy to get hold of as they are in the US then you would expect rampant crime levels because law abiding citizens would be unable to defend themselves. That simply isn't the case.

It has been proven that the majority of weapons used in mass shootings in the US were legally purchased and the US firearms fatality rate is more than 20 times higher than the UK. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve. Are you suggesting the UK would be better off with US style gun laws? If not, what's the point you're making? I really don't understand. The UK certainly has an issue with gun crime - like virtually all countries - but it is dramatically less serious that countries like the US or even countries like France or Canada. I guarantee you that legalising hand guns would not improve the situation.

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I really don't know what KingCracker is even arguing...

...give everyone a gun and see who comes out on top?

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That's pure speculation. You have offered nothing to support the notion that firearms are as easy to get hold of by criminals as they are in the US - everything points to it being much more difficult, though obviously not impossible. Just because you state it does not mean that it's true. If they were as easy to get hold of as they are in the US then you would expect rampant crime levels because law abiding citizens would be unable to defend themselves. That simply isn't the case.

It has been proven that the majority of weapons used in mass shootings in the US were legally purchased and the US firearms fatality rate is more than 20 times higher than the UK. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve. Are you suggesting the UK would be better off with US style gun laws? If not, what's the point you're making? I really don't understand. The UK certainly has an issue with gun crime - like virtually all countries - but it is dramatically less serious that countries like the US or even countries like France or Canada. I guarantee you that legalising hand guns would not improve the situation.

I'm not suggesting there be laws like the U.S i'm saying that a criminal that is determined enough can get a gun regardless of the restrictions in the U.K. You mention the rampages but fail to realize that the majority of shootings do not come from legal gun owners rather they come from criminals with long criminal records which means they can't go into a store and buy a gun. Most shootings that occur on a regular basis come from the inner city and any thug worth his weight is a at-least a felon. Ever hear of black on black crime? Gang bangers? Those are the ones that are responsible for a lot of the homicides not some legal gun owner. Sure a legal gun owner murdering someone makes the news, why? Because it doesn't happen all the time.

There hasn't been a gun related murder in my area for a long time and everyone here has at-least one gun.

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Found this rather interesting:

The shootings will inevitably spark a debate about whether police should have greater personal protection. They now routinely carry CS or pepper spray, and Tasers are also widely available. However, it seems there's little appetite for routinely arming the police. A Police Federation survey, conducted in 2006, of 47,000 officers found that 82% were opposed to the idea.

The idea that the British even come close to the same mentality as the Americans, (USA) when it comes to firearms, is just ridiculous!

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The idea that the British even come close to the same mentality as the Americans, (USA) when it comes to firearms, is just ridiculous!

I could of told you that a long time ago.

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I could of told you that a long time ago.

Thanks, I've known this fact for 40 years or so, that is the reason why I am pointing it out!

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"Shots Fired!!"....OK Send in the unarmed Officers.

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"Shots Fired!!"....OK Send in the unarmed Officers.

huh?

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"Shots Fired!!"....OK Send in the unarmed Officers.

Another one of your "jokes"?

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huh?

Exactly my point.

Another one of your "jokes"?

Apparently u don't understand sarcasm...oh wait maybe you do.

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Exactly my point.

Apparently u don't understand sarcasm...oh wait maybe you do.

WTF are you babbling about?

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Sad news indeed. But I'm sorry Tom, your avatar just isn't suited for this post. With that said, I feel very sad that this happened.

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WTF are you babbling about?

I was going to ask the same question, but this person, really... I just don't know... the post is so contradictory but he does not seem to be cognisant of the fact!

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