85 posts in this topic

Posted

If you can't distinguish the difference between a recently born baby and a feotus in the first or second trimester then it's pointless engaging you in conversation.

Furthermore, using tragedy like this to push your backwards views is a disgrace.

Wouldn't murder or termination in any form be actually more backwards and ancient in terms of evolved morals?

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Posted

Until a child is born it is not an individual and the rights of the woman take precedence. Women should not be forced to have children that they do not want and should be free to terminate any unborn child up to the point of birth - after that a child should be protected as an individual. If religious people have a problem with abortion then they can take comfort that their hateful God will smite such women in the afterlife.

God will smite such women in the afterlife? Wow, you need some education... Here.... http://www.biblegateway.com/

This is simply not just a religious issue. It is a humanity and a moral issue. Murder is muder is murder. It doesn't matter how you justify it or how you tell yourself that it isn't you are not basing yourself on facts.

Are you allowed to murder someone based on them being gay or them being a different race? Is that okay? Even if you feel that they are inferior to you, is that okay?

No, a baby is a living being inside of the woman. It has nothing to do with the rights of women, it has to do with a life inside them.

Who gives women the rights to kill a child? You? Them? Who gives them the rights? The rights of this morally bankrupt country?

For those that can't think for themselves, murder is not a relgious issue. As I said it is a humanity and a moral issue. If you don't have morals, you have nothing.

Those that do abortions should be liable for murder and because we have a corrupt society and we are morally bankrupt it's okay to murder a baby inside the womb,

but outside is a different standard. Double standards for morality is not right.

Some of you have been brainwashed by the woman's rights movement to say it's okay to murder. While I do want women to have rights, it's not their right to murder humans.

Besides, there are so many ways to prevent this as it's 2012 that abortion should not be allowed. Give the child up for adoption do not murder it.

I am so glad my mom did not murder me and I want women to have rights and they should have, but abortion should not be a right anywhere.

All people should stand up against murder, but of course babies arn't babies and according to the liberals here x races of people are not people either.

Thanks for proving how morally bankrupt you are.

Next liberals will be saying, hey rape isn't bad either! We can all have fun and enjoy ourselves.

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Posted

God will smite such women in the afterlife? Wow, you need some education... Here.... http://www.biblegateway.com/

lol says the guy that endorses genocide

This is simply not just a religious issue. It is a humanity and a moral issue. Murder is muder is murder. It doesn't matter how you justify it or how you tell yourself that it isn't you are not basing yourself on facts.

And murder only applies to humans not human cell's

Are you allowed to murder someone based on them being gay or them being a different race? Is that okay?

Someone's never read his bible

No, a baby is a living being inside of the woman. It has nothing to do with the rights of women, it has to do with a life inside them.

Not a baby

Who gives women the rights to kill a child? You? Them? Who gives them the rights? The rights of this morally bankrupt country?

Because its not a child

ignoring the rest of this crud

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Posted

Dont compare abortion with killing a baby that is outside the womb.

Why, cause some woman's right group lobbied enough to get it deemed OK to do it?

Doesn't make it morally right, or 'right' in general, or even different from killing a non-in utero human.

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Posted

Why, cause some woman's right group lobbied enough to get it deemed OK to do it?

Doesn't make it morally right, or 'right' in general, or even different from killing a non-in utero human.

This

e48c2d25.jpg

Is not this

209dd3ff.jpg

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Posted

Your pathetic attempt to use this terribly tragic story to further your religion based, anti-abortion agenda, both sickens and disgusts me.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Exactly. How could someone even compare an early abortion with some girl strangling her already born child?

Religious people have a bad habit of tell other's or wanting to control what they should do, but when others even hint at change towards religious people, they freak out and get all defensive/aggressive.

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Posted

Using your logic, if my wife swallows my man juice, does that make her a cannibal?

Oh my goodness, you are so ****ing clever, aren't you? Not like the internet has not heard that quote a few hundred thousand times...

Let me ask you, does your semen alone create a person? Hrmm...nope! Nice try, come again later. ;)

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Posted

Oh my goodness, you are so ****ing clever, aren't you? Not like the internet has not heard that quote a few hundred thousand times...

Let me ask you, does your semen alone create a person? Hrmm...nope! Nice try, come again later. ;)

A zygote is little more complex than the above and gets flushed about as often :rofl:

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Posted

Abortion is not really the issue I would care about from that story ....

From this awful tragedy, what I would like to understand and have addressed is

- how a teenage girl can be sexually active at 14? Did she got sexual education?

- how come she did not seek help? No nurse at school, no one to talk to?

- how come a bad situtation escalated into a completely FUBAR story like this?

I'd rather talk about the ways and ideas to prevent teen pregnancies than abortion.

*slow applause*

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Posted

Out of curiosity, how many anti-abortionists in this thread would oppose abortion given any of the following circumstances? Not saying all abortions involve these but I'm just curious as to how absolute your positions are.

- pregancy through rape

- significant threat to the life of the mother if she were to follow through with the pregnancy

- underage pregnancies (let's make it extreme and say a 6 year old)

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Posted

This

(pic removed)

Is not this

(pic removed)

actually, it is.... just bigger and grown more.

or is

this

babies-on-the-internet.jpg

not this?

portrait-old-asian-woman.jpg

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Posted

actually, it is.... just bigger and grown more.

No brain, No heart No human :rolleyes:

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Posted

Some people are going to great links to try and say a few cells is a living person..... Might as well not cut out tumors... And we might as well stop eating and killing any type of animal.. You know... since murder of any kind to you is apparently horrible.

Oh Plants. Stop hurting any plant ever. If you don't, you are just as horrible.

Remember, People are animals. We are a different form of animal than a dog, but an animal none the less. Plants live and breath and can even "think"/"communicate". So you should probably start just eating rocks and dirt.

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Posted

Some people are going to great links to try and say a few cells is a living person..... Might as well not cut out tumors... And we might as well stop eating and killing any type of animal.. You know... since murder of any kind to you is apparently horrible.

Oh Plants. Stop hurting any plant ever. If you don't, you are just as horrible.

Remember, People are animals. We are a different form of animal than a dog, but an animal none the less. Plants live and breath and can even "think"/"communicate". So you should probably start just eating rocks and dirt.

Don't forget the eggs and even zygotes every woman is a miniature Auschwitz if your belief is that life starts at conception, god must really really like abortions considering he made the female reproductive system preform them automatically most of the time.

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Posted

actually, it is.... just bigger and grown more.

A valid argument would require you to define what a "human" is. Many pro-abortionists adhere to a very concrete biological definition to differentiate between a fetus and a human. Anyone that has a technical problem with that definition should take it up with biologists. However, a strong anti-abortion argument probably would rather have the lines be blurred rather than clear.

A stronger argument would perhaps involve the fetus's potential to become human, but even that is a weak argument. Might as well go to the extreme and save the millions of sperms and eggs that are wasted. And where does it stop? Maybe not living your life to the absolute healthiest is negatively impacting your sperms/eggs.

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Posted

well, here's food for thought, to "terminate" a life before it is born is indicative of taking its' life. have we as people sunk so low that we worry more about killing people in other countries and don't think a second time about killing the unborn.

This world has been around for 5773 years according to the jewish calendar. IF the christians are so messed up with their doctrine, I see that the secular doctrine hasn't worked. matter of fact,when the US did declare it was a GOD fearing nation, we prospered, we did well. But now we have kids killing their parents, parents their kids, theft of immense proportions, cops killing people, wars all over the world.

and no, the catholics aren't christian because they themselves used the secular roman empire to crucify and kill christians. Christian, the name was a slur nickname given to those of us who believe in Christ.

murder is murder. "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." Jeremiah 1:5

"Whosoever shall shed man's blood, his own blood shall be shed,

For man was made in the image of God."

Genesis 9:6

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Posted

well, here's food for thought, to "terminate" a life before it is born is indicative of taking its' life.

No this is not the case because "it" doesn't exist in the same way that you deciding not to have children isnt killing children... They dont exist yet.

have we as people sunk so low that we worry more about killing people in other countries and don't think a second time about killing the unborn.

Thats because people in other countries are ... People and what you define as "the unborn" are little more than clusters of cells no bigger than a grain of rice.

This world has been around for 5773 years according to the jewish calendar

The FUK ?

IF the christians are so messed up with their doctrine, I see that the secular doctrine hasn't worked. matter of fact,when the US did declare it was a GOD fearing nation, we prospered, we did well.

That never happened :rolleyes:

ut now we have kids killing their parents, parents their kids, theft of immense proportions, cops killing people, wars all over the world.

Nothing new why not give secularism credit for our fantastic improvements in medicine :rolleyes:

and no, the catholics aren't christian because they themselves used the secular roman empire

:rofl:

If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Right back at you

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Posted

Source:

http://www2.tbo.com/....new-ar-516071/

Why is this so illegal when abortion is legal? What difference does life make in or out of the womb (double standards)

If she would have had an abortion it would be an A-OKAY, but she had the baby and kills it and it's now murder.

I personally think both should be murder, but I find it comical sad that morality has sunk so low in this country.

That murder is now considered to be a woman's right because of selfish reasons.

I love the women's rights movement because they need them, and they should be respected and they should have

the same rights as men, because otherwise it's a double standard, but murder should not be a right anywhere in this country

for anything in this country.

But hey, maybe some day that murder will be fine no matter what and we will all be just holding society back with our old fashioned

morals and values.

Why am I tying abortion into this post, because it's both related and ironic.

Except abortion generally takes place before it's actually a person. She actually birthed a child then killed it. Big difference whether you think so or not.

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Posted

America firstly is not and never was the only country on earth, secondly America is not and never was a religious nation, its illegal for America to be a religious nation as noted in the constitution. Anyways a fetus is not human, its a sack of cells performing the instructions to divide into a certain shape and size, upon reaching that shape the stem cells divide into proper cells, as the fetus develops it will branch into the types of animal depending on the species, before that stage it is the farthest thing from a human due to each species having the same initial stages of fetal growth, the fetus will go through different growths that will effectively take it through the evolutionary history of that species, more simplified of course, all fetuses will be identical to the fish fetus in the beginning from there the fetal stem cells will either branch into the next stage of growth if not a fish or it will continue stylizing the fish shape depending on the species, next stage they enter the a similarity to amphibians and reptiles, reptile stage will then branch into the either bird or mammal stage, upon which mammals will enter a stage similar to shrews of which mammals all hail from, for us humans we then branch into the primate stage, the organs will only start becoming fully working once the basic shape for that species is developed and even so the brain likely has no development yet, no pain, no senses, and no consciousness. This goes for all species, once the fetus reaches a specific point of growth, usually later into the second trimester the brain will start activating, upon activating the stem cells of the fetus will have likely done their jobs for the most part and all but dissipated having built a body of a new individual, the brain will start taking over and telling the body what to do, at this point the now human baby is able to function as an individual if it was outside the womb, to simply put it the fetus is the means of which an individual is built, all fetuses go through the same stages building off less advanced lineages stages, once the individual is activated, which would be the central nervous system being activated once the stem cells finish their job the fetus will have ceased to exist because it did its job.

embryo5.gif

tl;dr: fetus is the method of creating something after which it ceases to exist if it did its job because it used its own cells to create whatever it was instructed to make

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Posted

That picture rocks! It shows how a little taily worm turns into a tadpole turns into a wrinkly old super tiny man turns into a fish turns into a dragon turns into a turtle turns into ET turns into a ferret turns into an alien! I never knew!

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Posted

Guys,

Teen pregnancy is being glorified these days. Even planned parenthood does their share of promoting teen pregnancy, along with the shows aimed at teenage girls on broadcast television. Unfortunately no one says a word until someone brings up abstinence, then everyone gets into an uproar about someone shoving their morals down someone else's throat. The message right now is that it's okay to get pregnant, and if anyone offers any other options, its a bad thing.

is this guy serious?

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Posted

No brain, No heart No human :rolleyes:

ahh so that is how you choose to split hairs and sleep well at night by condoning murder.

Please, how dare you even attempt to rationalize the wanton killing of a human by attempting to belittle life and cram it into your meager views.

:no:

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Posted

ahh so that is how you choose to split hairs and sleep well at night by condoning murder.

Please, how dare you even attempt to rationalize the wanton killing of a human by attempting to belittle life and cram it into your meager views.

:no:

Vegan by any chance?

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Posted

As you can see this thread is evidence that people have become confused on what life is...

I think you'll find that each person knows what life is, we just can't agree amongst ourselves on the idea.

We call a baby a fetus to not only make ourselves feel better that we are just killing off a piece of skin

No, we call a foetus a foetus because that is what it is, the same way that a baby is a baby.

and that is what we tell ourselves to give us comfort that what we are really doing isn't wrong, but we also do it so we can lie to our own selves that it's not human.

People have different coping mechanisms, and the difference in definition between a foetus and a baby could help in coping with the decision, but it isn't the only reason that we call one thing a foetus and the other a baby.

We can look at history and see for itself. I have always been anti-abortion and pro-women's rights, but we somehow have gone overboard with that and calling murder okay.

Personally I don't see how you can be anti-abortion and pro-women's rights, but ok.

What this girl did was wrong, but people do this all of the time, not just in early stages, but late stage abortions (even though they are illegal in many states, people are still doing them accross the world).
And no one is arguing that late-stage abortion is wrong. Regardless of whether you are for or against choice, pretty much everyone agrees that late-stage abortion is not allowed. But like everything else, there will always be someone who does it.

This world is foobared, put a fork in it. We will continue to change what is wrong today with what is right tomorrow. All you need to do is get enough people to think something is right, to try to make it right.

To an extent, we call that "evolution." As we learn more as a group, we need to tweak our original beliefs and understandings to make sure they remain relevant. This is why we get rid of laws that allow the shooting of a Welshman with a crossbow so long as you're in England and he is across the border. These days it would be mad to think that such a thing was allowed, but at a time it was normal.

Morality is a moving target. So if being a pedophile is bad today, 20 years from now it might be legal and accepted as long as enough people agree with it.

That is something that I honestly don't see happening. The rules on paedophilia are in place for various reasons, and those reasons aren't going to disappear or change any time soon. But we're digressing on to a different subject.

This means that we are nearing the end of the current state of humanity itself.

Saying "we are nearing the end of the current state of humanity" is just a different way of saying, "we're evolving." This is something that is always true, whether it be on an individual level or a species level.

Basically, you and I have completely opposing views. While I don't think I would ever agree with your view on this subject, I respect that there are people who share your beliefs. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

ahh so that is how you choose to split hairs and sleep well at night by condoning murder.

Please, how dare you even attempt to rationalize the wanton killing of a human by attempting to belittle life and cram it into your meager views.

Ok, that made me laugh quite a lot.

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Posted

Disturbing that she did this. why not just go get an abortion a few months earlier. sad.

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