84 replies to this topic 8 votes

[Yogurtmaster]

Hardcore Til I Die, on 29 September 2012 - 11:51, said:

Not sure if serious or just overwhelmingly stupid.

My dog raises better points of discussion than you.

Such as "RUFF RUFF grrrr, snarl bark?" What a riveting conversation that was.

I posted what I thought was a good point and you try to make it into a terrible joke with very little humor or value.
Typical.

logicwin, on 29 September 2012 - 09:10, said:

a fetus isnt a baby, its not a individual living being, in the first and second trimester its arguable that its a sack of cells that on their own wouldn't do anything

Didn't some people on earth think that other races aren't human as well. A fetus is a baby, it's the same thing. It's just a name that you give to something so killing it doesn't sound so bad.

If you don't humanize killing it's just fine. This X race wasn't human, they are animals, thus it's okay to kill them.

That is how humans can justify killing, if you call them by a different name and you spread that, people won't feel so bad about doing it.

[dead.cell]

What a terrible lure. Not even gonna contribute to this mess, other than to provide a fix for the broken link.

http://www2.tbo.com/...-new-ar-516071/

[Intrinsica]

Yogurtmaster, on 02 October 2012 - 07:39, said:

A fetus is a baby, it's the same thing.

Wikipedia article for Foetus
Wikipedia article for Infant (baby)

No, they're not the same thing. For one a foetus can't feel pain, whereas a born baby can.

[*RedBull*]

Well she's 14. She'll be out by 18. So one can only hope she gets an education and realizes what she's done. I'm sure she'll be regretting it the rest of her life. But the real story needs to be how she got pregnant. Test that DNA to see if it were a relative or maybe someone she knows.

[compl3x]

Perhaps more money invested in sex-ed and a change in cultural attitudes towards sex would help avoid issues like this.

Oh wait, can't do that either. That too is morally wrong.

[Simon-]

This is why abortion should be legal, to stop immature teens do twisted **** like this when the fetus/baby is near-term/full-term/born and is capable or living outside the womb. Not that I think it would have helped in this case as she kept the whole thing a secret. Maybe better education/parenting/social attitudes/PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

[TPreston]

Yogurtmaster, on 02 October 2012 - 07:39, said:

Didn't some people on earth think that other races aren't human as well. A fetus is a baby, it's the same thing. It's just a name that you give to something so killing it doesn't sound so bad.

Thats not a baby, Which is why aborting it isnt murder, Which is why we don't have a funeral when one is flushed (which is what happens to most of them anyway).

Only the willfully ignorant don't understand this.

[FloatingFatMan]

Yogurtmaster, on 29 September 2012 - 07:29, said:

Source:
http://www2.tbo.com/....new-ar-516071/


Why is this so illegal when abortion is legal? What difference does life make in or out of the womb (double standards)
If she would have had an abortion it would be an A-OKAY, but she had the baby and kills it and it's now murder.

I personally think both should be murder, but I find it comical sad that morality has sunk so low in this country.
That murder is now considered to be a woman's right because of selfish reasons.

I love the women's rights movement because they need them, and they should be respected and they should have
the same rights as men, because otherwise it's a double standard, but murder should not be a right anywhere in this country
for anything in this country.

But hey, maybe some day that murder will be fine no matter what and we will all be just holding society back with our old fashioned
morals and values.

Why am I tying abortion into this post, because it's both related and ironic.

Your pathetic attempt to use this terribly tragic story to further your religion based, anti-abortion agenda, both sickens and disgusts me.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[d4rk5ky]

Page has 404, what a surprise lol

[ILikeTobacco]

Intrinsica, on 02 October 2012 - 08:02, said:

Wikipedia article for Foetus
Wikipedia article for Infant (baby)

No, they're not the same thing. For one a foetus can't feel pain, whereas a born baby can.

But neither are an actual person or have a moral right to life according to some medical ethicists so being the same thing doesn't actually matter. Morally, there is no difference a new born and a fetus since neither have plans or goals and there is nothing to deprive them of. If you disagree with that, go argue with the Medical Journal of Ethics which is a respected journal.

[SiCKX]

She pooped a baby and the thing killed itself when it saw how the world looks and knew how silly people will argue over the internets over its death.
It was a marketing move, from the baby... to take most attention from the other babies he was competing with.

[Intrinsica]

ILikeTobacco, on 02 October 2012 - 12:24, said:

Morally, there is no difference...

Ah, but whose morals are we working with here? Yours? Mine? Yogurtmaster's?

Morals aren't specific. We might share some morals, but we might differ with other morals. Your argument makes sense in so far as a baby and a foetus will have the same morals (ref: none), but we don't inspect a thing's morals before deciding if it should continue living or not.

[ahhell]

Yogurtmaster, on 29 September 2012 - 07:29, said:

Why am I tying abortion into this post, because it's both related and ironic.

It's ironic that you don't know what irony is.

[ILikeTobacco]

Intrinsica, on 02 October 2012 - 13:08, said:

Ah, but whose morals are we working with here? Yours? Mine? Yogurtmaster's?

Morals aren't specific. We might share some morals, but we might differ with other morals. Your argument makes sense in so far as a baby and a foetus will have the same morals (ref: none), but we don't inspect a thing's morals before deciding if it should continue living or not.

The arguement isn't much about what factors we use to decide on whether it should live or not, but rather that if it is ethically fine to kill a fetus, then for the exact same reasons it is ethically fine to kill a newborn. Side note: should have said ethically no difference as the paper points out. Look it up in the Medical Journal of Ethics, it is an interesting read. I only have a physically copy of it and haven't had luck finding a free copy of it online.

[Intrinsica]

ILikeTobacco, on 02 October 2012 - 14:00, said:

...if it is ethically fine to kill a fetus, then for the exact same reasons it is ethically fine to kill a newborn.

Even if you switch "morals" for "ethics" your above statement isn't true. For one, ethics can differ from one person to another just the same as morals can, so again we need to agree on what the ethics are. Secondly, you need to explain to me how if it is ethically to kill a foetus it is therefore ethically fine to kill a baby.

In my mind it is ethically fine to kill a foetus in the initial stages because the foetus has not developed thought and cannot feel pain. But a baby can feel pain, and is at least capable of the most basic of thoughts ("I'm hungry" "I'm tired" and so on). I guess the best way for me to explain my view is that I consider a baby to be a small person, and a foetus has the human capabilities of a tennis ball. But again, these are my views. Others (such as yogurtmaster) have different views and values.

I would take you up on the idea of reading the Medical Journal of Ethics as I have no doubt that it would be interesting to read, but I'm no doctor and don't fancy the idea of paying to read one article.