84 replies to this topic 8 votes

[PatrynXX]

virtorio, on 29 September 2012 - 07:55, said:

If you can't distinguish the difference between a recently born baby and a feotus in the first or second trimester then it's pointless engaging you in conversation.

Furthermore, using tragedy like this to push your backwards views is a disgrace.

And for anyone interested in a working link to the source article:
http://www2.tbo.com/...-new-ar-516071/

Thats simply murder. Now I don't think she should be charged as an adult. Hasn't really developed yet. But There's no question it's murder. But the mother of the 14 yr old is just as guilty since everyone else could see it.

[ILikeTobacco]

Intrinsica, on 02 October 2012 - 14:15, said:

Even if you switch "morals" for "ethics" your above statement isn't true. For one, ethics can differ from one person to another just the same as morals can, so again we need to agree on what the ethics are. Secondly, you need to explain to me how if it is ethically to kill a foetus it is therefore ethically fine to kill a baby.

In my mind it is ethically fine to kill a foetus in the initial stages because the foetus has not developed thought and cannot feel pain. But a baby can feel pain, and is at least capable of the most basic of thoughts ("I'm hungry" "I'm tired" and so on). I guess the best way for me to explain my view is that I consider a baby to be a small person, and a foetus has the human capabilities of a tennis ball. But again, these are my views. Others (such as yogurtmaster) have different views and values.

I would take you up on the idea of reading the Medical Journal of Ethics as I have no doubt that it would be interesting to read, but I'm no doctor and don't fancy the idea of paying to read one article.

Ethic's don't change. That is the point of ethics. Only morals change. Morals are a personal thing, while ethics themselves do not change, just the form of ethics someone subscribes to. However I do see your point. I personally don't agree with abortion, but that's not the point I'm bringing up.

They actually bring up the pain argument at one point but are able to dismiss it in a way that is reasonable. Beyond my ability to fully explain.

I got access to it through my college library so I didn't pay.

[dead.cell]

FloatingFatMan, on 02 October 2012 - 12:01, said:

Your pathetic attempt to use this terribly tragic story to further your religion based, anti-abortion agenda, both sickens and disgusts me.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Exactly how I feel. It's like those idiots who went out pushing politics immediately following the Batman shooting.

[Routerbad]

rfirth, on 29 September 2012 - 08:06, said:

Killing a birthed baby is wrong for the same reason that late-term abortion is wrong.

But late-term abortion and killing a baby is not the same as an abortion during the first or second trimester. Make sense?

A fetus becomes viable outside the womb during the second trimester. I personally have zero issue with abortion during the first trimester and even early into the second trimester (though I think a woman who decides that late in the game is asking for even more of a hormone driven rollercoaster, but I digress) but once the fetus is determined to be viable it should be illegal, unless of course there are complications that threaten the health or life of the mother.

This story is simply disgusting, maybe she liked the notoriety of being pregnant but when it came time to actually take responsibility for another life she couldn't do it? Pure speculation of course. Either way, she needs help and support. Its unfortunate she will probably receive neither with a murder conviction. Even though it is the right charge, there should be a better way to handle cases like this.

[shakey]

What a pathetic way to spin your agenda. I agree with the others.
Sadly, the internet lets everyone have a voice...

[TsMkLg068426]

Yogurtmaster, on 29 September 2012 - 07:29, said:

Source:
http://www2.tbo.com/....new-ar-516071/


Why is this so illegal when abortion is legal? What difference does life make in or out of the womb (double standards)
If she would have had an abortion it would be an A-OKAY, but she had the baby and kills it and it's now murder.

I personally think both should be murder, but I find it comical sad that morality has sunk so low in this country.
That murder is now considered to be a woman's right because of selfish reasons.

I love the women's rights movement because they need them, and they should be respected and they should have
the same rights as men, because otherwise it's a double standard, but murder should not be a right anywhere in this country
for anything in this country.

But hey, maybe some day that murder will be fine no matter what and we will all be just holding society back with our old fashioned
morals and values.

Why am I tying abortion into this post, because it's both related and ironic.

You working for Fox News? Think about the difference when a baby is actually born vs. just a fetus. In the beginning fetus is no live but few months down the road it becomes live, so yes there is a huge difference. Stop bringing up your bs Christian and Left wing believes.

[ILikeTobacco]

TsMkLg068426, on 02 October 2012 - 19:21, said:

Stop bringing up your bs Christian and Left wing believes.

Not sure if serious or trolling?

[ArialBlue]

Yes let us talk about whether fetuses are worthy of life.

Instead of talking about preventing 14 year old girl from getting pregnant and in general
lets just not talk about preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

[Routerbad]

ILikeTobacco, on 02 October 2012 - 19:22, said:

Not sure if serious or trolling?

I don't think you can attach a 'wing' to it. No one in their right mind would say that any form of pre-birth abortion is the same as killing a baby after birth. I think the Christian label fits, though. Only an individual whose worldview can only be seen through a religious lens could make a statement like this.

[the420kid]

anti-abortionists are so smart, "I am going to tell you what to do with your own body!". We are all animals only here for a maybe 80-100 years. Stop wasting your life, time and thoughts on a personal issue that you should keep to yourself. Stop thinking you know everything. I hate religious people with a passion,
.

cheers

[Routerbad]

ArialBlue, on 02 October 2012 - 19:27, said:

Yes let us talk about whether fetuses are worthy of life.

Instead of talking about preventing 14 year old girl from getting pregnant and in general
lets just not talk about preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

Teen pregnancy is being glorified these days. Even planned parenthood does their share of promoting teen pregnancy, along with the shows aimed at teenage girls on broadcast television. Unfortunately no one says a word until someone brings up abstinence, then everyone gets into an uproar about someone shoving their morals down someone else's throat. The message right now is that it's okay to get pregnant, and if anyone offers any other options, its a bad thing.

This particular girl is not legally allowed to consent to sex in any state in the union. Her parents or the father (of the child) should have been charged as she's unable to take responsibility for either the act or the spawn, both legally and emotionally. This entire situation should not have been allowed to happen.

[FloatingFatMan]

^ It might not have if the medieval style sex education classes in US schools actually taught kids about safe sex instead of just telling them not to do it.

Teens WILL have sex. They've been doing so since the dawn of the species and will continue to do so no matter what. They best thing we adults can do is at least try to get them to be safe about it and use birth control. Abstinence teaching does not work.

[TPreston]

lol

Routerbad, on 02 October 2012 - 19:39, said:

Unfortunately no one says a word until someone brings up abstinence, then everyone gets into an uproar about someone shoving their morals down someone else's throat.

That and its utter wank, and about as effective as todd akin's rape shield.

[Yogurtmaster]

As you can see this thread is evidence that people have become confused on what life is and further more shows that
our society has become so selfish that we get what we want no matter what.

We call a baby a fetus to not only make ourselves feel better that we are just killing off a piece of skin and that is what
we tell ourselves to give us comfort that what we are really doing isn't wrong, but we also do it so we can lie to our own selves that it's not human.

We can look at history and see for itself. I have always been anti-abortion and pro-women's rights, but we somehow have gone overboard with that
and calling murder okay.

What this girl did was wrong, but people do this all of the time, not just in early stages, but late stage abortions (even though they are illegal in many states,
people are still doing them accross the world).

This world is foobared, put a fork in it. We will continue to change what is wrong today with what is right tomorrow.
All you need to do is get enough people to think something is right, to try to make it right.

Morality is a moving target. So if being a pedophile is bad today, 20 years from now it might be legal and accepted
as long as enough people agree with it.

This means that we are nearing the end of the current state of humanity itself.



NOTE: I am not trying to use someone for my agenda. I was reading it with disgust like everyone else here.
I just thought it was extremely ironic that this is not okay but abortion is fine. I find that extremely disturbing.

Murder should be murder in society no matter what. You can call it a race of people animals or you can call it a
fetus or a baby, it makes no difference. The fact that Hitler was able to call races of people out as animals and kill
them like it's nothing is extremely disturbing to me.

Some people might not have a problem with what Hitler did and I have a problem with that, just like I have a
problem with people trying to call a fetus just tissue to make themselves be selfish and murder and be okay with it.



NOTE #2: I don't watch fox news and I am not a republican nor am I right wing. I am an independant/center and I call people out on what
I see is wrong and what common sense tells me. I find abortion a double standard, sorry, the truth is the truth, no matter what you color it.

[TPreston]

Yogurtmaster, on 02 October 2012 - 20:07, said:

As you can see this thread is evidence that people have become confused on what life is and further more shows that
our society has become so selfish that we get what we want no matter what.

No we are clear on what life is we just dot think



is this

Quote

We call a baby a fetus to not only make ourselves feel better that we are just killing off a piece of skin and that is what
we tell ourselves to give us comfort that what we are really doing isn't wrong, but we also do it so we can lie to our own selves that it's not human.

Its not human, No brain,No heart No human

Quote

We can look at history and see for itself. I have always been anti-abortion and pro-women's rights, but we somehow have gone overboard with that
and calling murder okay.

Its not murder ?

Quote

What this girl did was wrong, but people do this all of the time, not just in early stages, but late stage abortions (even though they are illegal in many states,
people are still doing them accross the world).

And christians like you are to blame with your **** poor sex ed

Quote

This world is foobared, put a fork in it. We will continue to change what is wrong today with what is right tomorrow.
All you need to do is get enough people to think something is right, to try to make it right.

Aw poor you society has evolved beyond your primitive morality

Quote

Morality is a moving target. So if being a pedophile is bad today, 20 years from now it might be legal and accepted
as long as enough people agree with it.

You mean like it was during "biblical" times

Quote

This means that we are nearing the end of the current state of humanity itself.
NOTE: I am not trying to use someone for my agenda. I was reading it with disgust like everyone else here.
I just thought it was extremely ironic that this is not okay but abortion is fine. I find that extremely disturbing.

Thats because you are incapable of thinking for yourself.

Quote

Murder should be murder in society no matter what. You can call it a race of people animals or you can call it a
fetus or a baby, it makes no difference. The fact that Hitler was able to call races of people out as animals and kill
them like it's nothing is extremely disturbing to me.

Is not



2

Yogurtmaster, on 24 September 2012 - 22:34, said:

You act like God never gave them a chance though. God gave them many, many, many, many chances.
Just like you guys. God in your entire life has given you chances, but you want to go down like the people outside the ark, why?

If you were on the top of a house and it was a great flood and only the roof tops were free from the water and I sent you 10 different
boats and you turned them all down, who's fault is it that you died?

How can anyone be responsible for you, if you are yourselves not responsible for yourselves?

No problem with the genocide of every man woman and unborn child but crys about the abortion of a few cell's

In b4 OMG CHRISTIAN PERSUCTION1!1!!! STOP HARASSING ME!!111!