189 posts in this topic

That's what the market wants though, Each player in the desktop space all have their own markets. It's nothing you're going to be escaping. Apple has a store, and so does Canonical.

No, it's what mindless app junkies want, to play Angry birds and laugh at fart apps. I didn't spend ?1,400 to turn my PC into a worthless tinkertoy. And Linux is a pretty poor example given that there are no ridiculous guidelines to use the software repositories on Linux, not to mention Linux is completely open and can be modified to remove anything the user doesn't want without invalidating their EULA

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I agree with everything he said. However there's another thing that threatens the 'Open PC', and that's Microsoft's demands that OEM's use a secure boot bios/UEFI. I want to be able to run any OS I choose on a PC. I don't want to be locked down.

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I agree with everything he said. However there's another thing that threatens the 'Open PC', and that's Microsoft's demands that OEM's use a secure boot bios/UEFI. I want to be able to run any OS I choose on a PC. I don't want to be locked down.

OT, but the problema is not secure boot, nor secure boot being mandatory.

The problem is that the best you can hope for is an option to turn it off, when ideally you should have a third middle-ground option where you can use your own signed keys without paying for Microsoft's blessing.

Ie. something like:

-Secure boot enforced

-Secure boot permissive

-Secure boot disabled

And life'd be good and everyone happy.

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I agree with everything he said. However there's another thing that threatens the 'Open PC', and that's Microsoft's demands that OEM's use a secure boot bios/UEFI. I want to be able to run any OS I choose on a PC. I don't want to be locked down.

Agreed, I happen to agree with Notch as well. Not to say that John was wrong though, but Windows 8 introduces a mechanism that sooner or later will lock you in a sandbox. If they are pushing for app certification in the store, then they will sooner or later do like apple: By default, block any non-store apps from being installed unless you find the checkbox to undo this. And after a couple releases, that checkbox will disappear. You will be completely stuck. And they will do this in the name of protecting you against malware.

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It seems to me that the software world has merged with the "celebrity" world now. Self-important twits are popping out of the woodwork. I never bought Minecraft because I don't put Java on my machines. Now I'll never buy it because the author is the gaming equivalent of Paris Hilton.

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I want to be able to run any OS I choose on a PC. I don't want to be locked down.

So don't buy a system that wasn't designed specifically for Windows 8, or get a distro that's got a signed bootloader. There's already a few working on this.. you do know this could help protect Linux from rootkits as well yea?

And after a couple releases, that checkbox will disappear. You will be completely stuck. And they will do this in the name of protecting you against malware.

And again, people are making the crazy assumption that Microsoft is run by a bunch of morons who think that nobody's going to notice or complain when millions of programs suddenly aren't able to be used. Do you think people would buy a Windows OS that doesn't run Windows software? No? Pretty sure they'll come to the same conclusion.

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one entity.... oracle.... they control java....

Oracle barely controls Java, it's open-source and free to develop for.

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No, it's what mindless app junkies want, to play Angry birds and laugh at fart apps. I didn't spend ?1,400 to turn my PC into a worthless tinkertoy. And Linux is a pretty poor example given that there are no ridiculous guidelines to use the software repositories on Linux, not to mention Linux is completely open and can be modified to remove anything the user doesn't want without invalidating their EULA

Huh? ###### are you on about?

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I for one support Notch's decision. Why should he support or work with a platform he doesn't support/agree with? I know I sure wouldn't. I don't work with people I don't support. It is disrespectful.. on the user side. To be all upset and hating the person that made your game because he doesn't agree with your opinion. John should not have called him out, and I think it was a very childish thing to do. Some people don't support Windows 8 and the control MS has over it. I don't, I think a desktop os should be 100% open and 100% separate from any mobile (outside of laptop).

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No, it's what mindless app junkies want, to play Angry birds and laugh at fart apps. I didn't spend ?1,400 to turn my PC into a worthless tinkertoy. And Linux is a pretty poor example given that there are no ridiculous guidelines to use the software repositories on Linux, not to mention Linux is completely open and can be modified to remove anything the user doesn't want without invalidating their EULA

I don't want either of those, but having all my apps fully hardware accelerated, properly sandboxed, kept to one directory and so on would be fantastic.

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You think this is anything to do with the fact that this guy makes his money from alpha and beta software (or has he actually released a final version of MC ? )

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You think this is anything to do with the fact that this guy makes his money from alpha and beta software (or has he actually released a final version of MC ? )

Minecraft has officially been out of beta since November 2011.

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Minecraft is Notch's creation, he has every right to do what he damn well pleases with it. I know this thought doesn't sit well with the Microsoft shills at this forum but people are in software development for themselves, not to appease Microsoft.

So I agree with his rights wrt Minecraft and if he doesn't want to cerify - that's ok too (didn't sound like Microsoft was forcing but just asking). If that's all good, what is the justification of him first bad mouthing Windows 8 (his series of tweets) and now trying to put John C. as a goat rapist/killer in search engines? Where is the maturity? I hadn't read the editorial in question until now(TBH don't like most of what JohnC writes) and when I did, I didn't see any personal attacks that required such a childish response.

I guess some people just can't handle success. Paris Hilton of the tech world, he truly is.

I agree with everything he said. However there's another thing that threatens the 'Open PC', and that's Microsoft's demands that OEM's use a secure boot bios/UEFI. I want to be able to run any OS I choose on a PC. I don't want to be locked down.

what a load of bull****. Please take your FUD elsewhere.

It seems to me that the software world has merged with the "celebrity" world now. Self-important twits are popping out of the woodwork. I never bought Minecraft because I don't put Java on my machines. Now I'll never buy it because the author is the gaming equivalent of Paris Hilton.

+1 on Java and Paris Hilton. This guy is just a moron.

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By default, block any non-store apps from being installed unless you find the checkbox to undo this. And after a couple releases, that checkbox will disappear. You will be completely stuck. And they will do this in the name of protecting you against malware.

That checkbox is never going to disappear on OSX or Windows. They'll get rid of it at the OS level through iOS and Windows RT, but unless they want to eliminate developers from the equation and build everything in house, you'll be able to run whatever you want.

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Microsoft backtracked on both UAC (made it less of a pita) and before that forced driver signing (Windows 2000 anyone?) They aren't stupid.

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'Microsoft backtracked on... forced driver signing (Windows 2000 anyone?) They aren't stupid.'

Sorry, what? Vista onwards 64 has mandatory driver signing else you can't load them;

And jesus why do people honestly care about this? He owns a company and somehow he's being called an idiot because he's choosing what to do with his company? I've got a good idea, let's contact nero or eminem and demand that they make some swing music and then keep bitching at them when they don't do it because they've got no interest in it.

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Minecraft has officially been out of beta since November 2011.

Took them a while

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And jesus why do people honestly care about this? He owns a company and somehow he's being called an idiot because he's choosing what to do with his company?

If he didn't want people responding to his comments he probably shouldn't have started up with the anti-Windows 8 drama to begin with. Totally entitled to your own opinions no matter how skewed they might be but once you start flinging them around on the Internet you better be ready for the backlash from people who disagree, never mind fueling it with his latest comments. Don't want to certify? Fine, don't. Your users probably won't even care, Windows 8 sure as hell doesn't care, life goes on. Don't certify and and start with a rant about how Microsoft is eventually going to kill off open development? Sorry, brought that on himself.

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No, it's what mindless app junkies want, to play Angry birds and laugh at fart apps. I didn't spend ?1,400 to turn my PC into a worthless tinkertoy. And Linux is a pretty poor example given that there are no ridiculous guidelines to use the software repositories on Linux, not to mention Linux is completely open and can be modified to remove anything the user doesn't want without invalidating their EULA

Err. yes there is, or you have to run your own repo, or put it on one of the third party repos with no quality control

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Notch had a good idea.

That is all. Period.

Minecraft is one of the worst examples of Java programming ever conceived. Notch sucks at programming - badly.

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Err. yes there is, or you have to run your own repo, or put it on one of the third party repos with no quality control

Free web hosting exists, as does google code, sourceforge, github, and they all allow free hosting.

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Will we talk about this on the return of the Neogamr podcast? (Probably not) But check it out tonight to see!!!! :laugh:

Sorry I just had to. Tonight at a special time, 8:30 ish PM (I am traveling to Philly for work, so the guys are being flexible with when we record).

All I will say is thanks Notch. I am sure you got us some additional hits.

Also I will say John is truly one of the nicest guys I have ever met (online). Like I try and try during the podcast to get him to talk smack about anything, and he never really has. So I take on that role for all of us. :rofl: The only time I recall him even coming close is the whole 38 Studios debacle, and even then, he was focusing on the people who lost their jobs. He also is a walking encyclopedia of all things PC gaming. Sincerely and truly he knows his stuff, and I consider it a privilege to do a podcast with him as a result. Hoping more people give us a listen this "fall season" to hear what I have come to known, that John is a really good guy that knows a whole, whole lot about gaming.

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Wow. Notch explained why he said what he said and still the Neowinian Windows 8 fanboys don't understand.

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How does Win8 prevent you from installing any non 'Metro apps' through desktop as before? If you choose to develop for the new interface you have to play by MSFT rules, else stick with the 'legacy' desktop environment. And PC != Windows last I ckecked, Windows 8 does not change anything to the 'openness' of your PC except for installing apps running in the 'Metro' environment so what's your beef really?

Answer - it doesn't.

Non-RT applicaitons (even ModernUI ones) can still be installed the same way they can in Windows 7 - MetroIRC is an example.

In fact, while Win32 and Windows x64 apps and games can have *pages* in the Store, the apps themselves aren't sold there; two major examples are, in fact, from Microsoft itself - Office and Age of Empires Online. (The Office page in the Store redirects to Microsoft's Office portal, while AoE Online redirects to - amazingly - *Steam*.)

In fact, I can't name a *single* Win32 applicaiton I've installed directly from the Windows Store.

Microsoft backtracked on both UAC (made it less of a pita) and before that forced driver signing (Windows 2000 anyone?) They aren't stupid.

And UEFI has *only* been a requirement on WindowsRT - same with secure boot.

Further, there are still plenty of usable desktops, notebooks, etc. with non-UEFI BIOSes that can (and in some cases are) run Windows 8 - why would Microsoft shoot itself in the foot that way in a sour economy?

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I don't have any issues with Markus Persson doing whatever the hell he wants with Minecraft. After all, it's his creation. If he wants to discourage people from switching to Windows 8 by pretending to be against a more closed PC platform, then that's his choice.

What I find a bit odd is that he claims to be against the PC platform becoming more closed but in reality, he's against Windows becoming more closed. The PC platform will continue to remain open. It's not something that a single company can control or own unlike gaming consoles or mobile devices.

Clearly, he doesn't have a strong-enough-issue with Mac OS or iOS (with the former being on the PC platform) otherwise he'd stop selling non-Windows versions of Minecraft. He also doesn't have a strong-enough-issue with the Xbox 360 which is as closed as you can get for a gaming platform.

Both Mac OS and Windows is a part of the PC platform; however, both operating systems are the properties of two different companies. The PC platform as a whole doesn't belong to anyone. You're free to use Mac OS, Windows, Linux, or even create your own operating system if you "happened to be a mad genius".

If Markus Persson wants to improve his credibility, he should change his opinion to something like "I'm against Windows becoming more closed."

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