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#16 Ph1b3r0pt1c

Ph1b3r0pt1c

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  • Location: Sebree, Kentucky
  • OS: Debian, Windows 7, Server 2012

Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:35

Well, you know what they say, "If you sprinkle when you tinkle....."


"Be a sweety and wipe the seety"


#17 +Nik L

Nik L

    Where's my pants?

  • Tech Issues Solved: 1
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Posted 09 October 2012 - 15:41

They physically own the servers that your content is being stored on, so they retain some liability if you upload illegal content onto their services (although they like to say otherwise in their terms of service, a court of law isn't inclined to have to agree), especially if they do nothing to prevent that. And no right to enfore their ToS? Really? It's the terms you agree too to use their service, they have every full right to enforce it if you agree too it, that's hte whole point of having a ToS.



Exactly. They HAVE to police the content to offer the service. They ARE liable for what is uploaded.

#18 Dashel

Dashel

    Disgustipator

  • Joined: 03-December 01
  • Location: USA

Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:13

They physically own the servers that your content is being stored on, so they retain some liability if you upload illegal content onto their services (although they like to say otherwise in their terms of service, a court of law isn't inclined to have to agree), especially if they do nothing to prevent that. And "no right to enfore their ToS"? Really? It's the terms you agree too to use their service, they have every full right to enforce it if you agree too it. That's the whole point of having a ToS.


Pretty sure courts have thrown out such 'EULA' buried measures in the past. If their legal was so iron clad, they wouldn't be (and aren't) liable for unshared content.

This absolutely shakes any confidence I have in MS as a company and adds to my distaste of the upcoming products.

#19 HawkMan

HawkMan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:28

Pretty sure courts have thrown out such 'EULA' buried measures in the past. If their legal was so iron clad, they wouldn't be (and aren't) liable for unshared content.

This absolutely shakes any confidence I have in MS as a company and adds to my distaste of the upcoming products.


too bad everyone else does the same then.

#20 xendrome

xendrome

    In God We Trust; All Others We Monitor

  • Tech Issues Solved: 8
  • Joined: 05-December 01
  • OS: Windows 8.1 Pro x64

Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:31

Exactly. They HAVE to police the content to offer the service. They ARE liable for what is uploaded.


The issue is, they aren't liable if they had no prior knowledge... it would be like saying your mortgage company is responsible for not coming to your house randomly and making sure you aren't storing any illegal stuff and don't have a meth lab. It's not their responsibility but it is technically their property until you've paid off your debt. Plus, where does the "Prove you paid for that" end.... do we all need to save EVERY receipt or proof of purchase for every electronic book/game/video we have ever bought/downloaded? And what if it was free, should we save some proof of that also so we can show we legally obtained it and didn't steal it or copy it.. where does it end..

#21 Reacon

Reacon

    [VGW] Woohoo!

  • Joined: 12-May 08
  • Location: Katabatic
  • OS: Win 7 & Slackware

Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:37

I lost my main account this way and I am ****ed my email of 7 years could just be gone like that. I uploaded my fap folder and now I've lost everything with no chance of retrieval.

Thanks Microsoft, you've lost a fan.

#22 hjf288

hjf288

    Korean Crazy Man!

  • Joined: 19-April 03
  • Location: United Kingdom

Posted 09 October 2012 - 18:58

Who stores their porn on the cloud? Lmfao - Should've read the TOS before doing so

#23 HawkMan

HawkMan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:01

The issue is, they aren't liable if they had no prior knowledge... it would be like saying your mortgage company is responsible for not coming to your house randomly and making sure you aren't storing any illegal stuff and don't have a meth lab. It's not their responsibility but it is technically their property until you've paid off your debt. Plus, where does the "Prove you paid for that" end.... do we all need to save EVERY receipt or proof of purchase for every electronic book/game/video we have ever bought/downloaded? And what if it was free, should we save some proof of that also so we can show we legally obtained it and didn't steal it or copy it.. where does it end..


Actually it's not technically their property. It's your property, it's your name on the legal documents, and on the registered papers. They however have a claim on the property if you don't pay your loans that are secured in the value of the property.

You are however storing data on their hard drives, where you are borrowing or renting space. and more importantly, legal cases have already sued people for data on their drives that they don't know about and wasn't theirs. so they pretty much have to. blame the American legal system.

#24 Dashel

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  • Joined: 03-December 01
  • Location: USA

Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:11

The American legal system didn't force them to start their scanners on private areas, they did that of their own (stupid) volition.

ISPs smartly didn't accept such terms, I fail to see a large difference between data in transit and data at rest in regards to liability. (Which still begs the question of, what liability, if the content isn't publicly shared). There is no justification for anyone but MS to be looking in MY stuff for any reason without a subpoena.

I've worked with many hosting provider's over the years and the 'its on our hard disks' has never made them liable for customer content.

#25 Shadrack

Shadrack

    Neowinian Senior

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 19:37

They physically own the servers that your content is being stored on, so they retain some liability if you upload illegal content onto their services (although they like to say otherwise in their terms of service, a court of law isn't inclined to have to agree), especially if they do nothing to prevent that. And "no right to enfore their ToS"? Really? It's the terms you agree too to use their service, they have every full right to enforce it if you agree too it. That's the whole point of having a ToS.


I wonder how very blatant services, such as Usenet servers, get around this.

#26 HawkMan

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 20:02

The American legal system didn't force them to start their scanners on private areas, they did that of their own (stupid) volition.

ISPs smartly didn't accept such terms, I fail to see a large difference between data in transit and data at rest in regards to liability. (Which still begs the question of, what liability, if the content isn't publicly shared). There is no justification for anyone but MS to be looking in MY stuff for any reason without a subpoena.

I've worked with many hosting provider's over the years and the 'its on our hard disks' has never made them liable for customer content.


They added scanners (get this, it's the important part) BECAUSE of the American legal system and previous cases where people and companies where found guilty for data on their systems that they didn't know about.

#27 Dashel

Dashel

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 21:05

OActually it was the other way around too if memory serves (that international pressure was cited, not domestic).

Regardless, the Code of Conduct, as currently written is broken and completely hostile to the customer. So like most bad laws, it won't be until enough regular people are effected that they will fix this mess. And you will have the useful idiots to chime in to 'play by the rules' in the meantime. I dunno, if I was trying to get a handhold in the cloud/mobile market, I sure wouldn't be ****ing on my best feature.

This really needs to make it further into the news cycle than blog websites because they certainly don't tell you that in the stores when they're selling WPs. The majority of users have no idea the privacy and censorship issues exist.

#28 OP +FaiKee

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  • Joined: 04-January 09

Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:59

According to another guy's post in the same PCBeta thread, it seems MS takes different measures to violations:

http://bbs.pcbeta.co...02&pid=30001133

We have found images involving copyright content on your SkyDrive account,http://********.skydrive.live.com.

Kindly remove this content and any other images, messages or files that violate the Windows Live SkyDrive Code of conduct within 48 hours.

Violations include, but are not limited to, nudity, partial nudity, pornography, harassment, and illegal or offensive behavior. For a complete description of content that is not allowed on Windows Live SkyDrive, please visit our Code of Conduct at: http://skydrive.live...eofconduct.aspx

We also restrict our users from posting full or partial nude pictures of babies and children. This policy has been implemented in order to reduce the risks of predators in the online community and of course to ensure the safety of the children. If your SkyDrive account contains any material of this nature, please remove them as well.

If you remove all violating content, your SkyDrive account will again be in accordance with the Windows Live SkyDrive Code of Conduct, and will remain accessible for your use. Otherwise, we will be forced to close down your SkyDrive as well as any associated Spaces and Profile accounts. Again, while this is never an option we like to take, Microsoft takes the safety of children quite seriously.

You may delete files from your SkyDrive account by following these instructions:

1. Log into SkyDrive
2. Navigate to the 'Shared' or 'Public' folder that contains the offending file
3. Select the file to be removed by clicking the file
4. Click 'Delete'
5. Click 'OK' to permanently delete the file

Thank you for helping Windows Live SkyDrive provide a friendly and safe experience for all of our customers.

Sincerely,

Support Specialist
Windows Live Support Team


My guess is :
- For child abuse or other serious violations, it's "Shoot first, ask questions later"
- Other not-so-serious stuffs, they give you a warning and a chance to remove the stuffs.

#29 nub

nub

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  • Joined: 19-November 06
  • Location: Amerika

Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:11

So wait, Microsoft is going through your files? Another reason cloud computing sucks.

#30 DDStriker

DDStriker

    Neowinian Senior

  • Joined: 01-August 05

Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:28

Encrypt before uploading?



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