Jump to content



Photo

Nokia's Board: Asleep at the wheel


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#16 Osiris

Osiris

    Neowinian God!

  • 11,469 posts
  • Joined: 31-October 01
  • Location: Australia
  • OS: WIndows 8.2
  • Phone: Nokia 930

Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:20

You don't transition a large corporate on a new path or new platform without having a several year plan. I would also be surprised if it getting worse before it gets better was not to be expected. MS would not have gotten in bed with them in a multi-billionaire deal if it was not anticipated to be a several year plan.

Fact is too late too turn at this point anyway.

These commentators should find another company to try and comment into bankrupcy as its not happening for Nokia anytime soon.


#17 OP simplezz

simplezz

    Neowinian Senior

  • 3,183 posts
  • Joined: 01-February 12

Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:21

I personally would like to see both WP and Android from them.


I agree. I think Meego / Tizen, and Android should be part of Nokia's smartphone strategy. I fear though, that Elop has doomed the company by going the WP exclusive route.

#18 Max Norris

Max Norris

    Neowinian Senior

  • 5,063 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 11
  • OS: Windows 7/8.1, BSD Unix, Arch Linux
  • Phone: HTC One (Home) Lumia 1020 (Work)

Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:23

What I don't understand is, why didn't Nokia go with a multi-OS strategy? It's pragmatic to hedge one's bets. There was nothing stopping Nokia from releasing Meego, WP, and Android.

Meego is already dead, rebranded as Tizen, and supposedly forked into yet another OS called Mer.. hardly a solid choice if you're betting the future of your company on it. And Android? There's already a gazillion handsets out there.. It's really hard to differentiate yourself from the crowd when you're just one of many selling the same thing as everybody else... throwing a few more into the pile and hoping somebody notices doesn't sound like a great way to recover, especially when some of their customers have already dealt with Android in the past. And that's not even calling the source into question.. plenty of other blogs call his data biased, inaccurate, and a few outright lies. Besides, you're always going on and on about choices, why is it that you're always dumping on choices that aren't what you'd personally choose? A bit hypocritical isn't it? Or is there another motive?

#19 Osiris

Osiris

    Neowinian God!

  • 11,469 posts
  • Joined: 31-October 01
  • Location: Australia
  • OS: WIndows 8.2
  • Phone: Nokia 930

Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:23

What I don't understand is, why didn't Nokia go with a multi-OS strategy? It's pragmatic to hedge one's bets. There was nothing stopping Nokia from releasing Meego, WP, and Android phones.


Jack of all trades master of none? Several platforms increases manufactuering costs as well as marketing and resources required to sell, package, promote, distribute.

#20 Enron

Enron

    Windows for Workgroups

  • 10,418 posts
  • Joined: 30-May 11
  • OS: Windows 8.1 U1
  • Phone: Nokia Lumia 900

Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:27

Tomi Ahonen (ex Nokia executive) article - sour grapes.

Also, what's with those janky looking graphs? Were they made in Libre Office?

#21 fehu

fehu

    Neowinian

  • 252 posts
  • Joined: 17-April 11

Posted 14 October 2012 - 15:21

I'm sure that samsung is regretting being one of (or the) top selling company due to being another of that android makers

---

As an european I've almosto owned only nokia phone, except for a startac 130 and a motorola c333
They used to be perfect phones, then in ~2004 S60 started to become popular with the nokia 6600 and really compete with windows mobile.
It was so flexible that on top of a ton of mobile programs had even an augmented reality one
When I had the money I brought an N70, and when android was still in its infancy and the iphone was almost a dumb phone I brought an e52 with wifi, gps with unlimited support and turn by turn navigation, one week between recharges and many other pros. I still use it and can't find a better one for my necessity.

During 2006 Nokia add a lot of concepts and projects, and a rock solid popular platform. At some point someone pulled out even an online store accessible from the phone itself and the trend over bigger touch screen, but the board said no, those are stupid ideas.
It was at that moment that they were surpassed by almost anyone, and due to the same idiot board nokia hasn't stopped to spend all its fortune on random and then trashed projects like meego and qt.
For who wasn't there apple invented the smartphone, and then google varied it, so nokia add to change all and follow the new no key big screen trend, but with an os that wasn't meant for that.
And now they are still confused with no clear idea on what to do.

If it wasn't for the long list of dumb ceos nokia would be the incredibly innovative number one phone maker.

#22 Praetor

Praetor

    ASCii / ANSi Designer

  • 3,371 posts
  • Joined: 05-June 02
  • Location: Lisbon
  • OS: Windows Eight dot One dot One 1!one

Posted 14 October 2012 - 18:48

I'm sure that samsung is regretting being one of (or the) top selling company due to being another of that android makers

---

As an european I've almosto owned only nokia phone, except for a startac 130 and a motorola c333
They used to be perfect phones, then in ~2004 S60 started to become popular with the nokia 6600 and really compete with windows mobile.
It was so flexible that on top of a ton of mobile programs had even an augmented reality one
When I had the money I brought an N70, and when android was still in its infancy and the iphone was almost a dumb phone I brought an e52 with wifi, gps with unlimited support and turn by turn navigation, one week between recharges and many other pros. I still use it and can't find a better one for my necessity.

During 2006 Nokia add a lot of concepts and projects, and a rock solid popular platform. At some point someone pulled out even an online store accessible from the phone itself and the trend over bigger touch screen, but the board said no, those are stupid ideas.
It was at that moment that they were surpassed by almost anyone, and due to the same idiot board nokia hasn't stopped to spend all its fortune on random and then trashed projects like meego and qt.
For who wasn't there apple invented the smartphone, and then google varied it, so nokia add to change all and follow the new no key big screen trend, but with an os that wasn't meant for that.
And now they are still confused with no clear idea on what to do.

If it wasn't for the long list of dumb ceos nokia would be the incredibly innovative number one phone maker.


This.
i had a n70, good smartphone (albeit a bit slow but had lot of potential) but it got overpassed; the problem is that Nokia had lots of resources splattered (MeeGo, Qt, Symbian) back in the days, with no real strategy; it was poor decision to ditch MeeGo when so much money was invested and it could be a fresh breath of air in the market (like the N9 proved, it sold well considering to be a dead platform on arrival); the WP8 is a critical move, on that could save or kill the brand...then again it's no wonder why they turn to Microsoft with a trojan horse named Elop.

#23 +LogicalApex

LogicalApex

    Software Engineer

  • 6,456 posts
  • Joined: 14-August 02
  • Location: Philadelphia, PA
  • OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
  • Phone: Nexus 5

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:00

Yes they needed a new platform, they wasted millions developing MeeGo and tossed it aside without giving it a chance (ironically the N9 sold pretty well for no advertising and a dead OS). MeeGo should have been given more time and if that had failed, Android should have been deployed. I personally really want a Lumia 920 but wont touch WP with a barge pole because it doesn't have any of my 20 most used apps. With Android, sales would have been so much higher at this point easily overtaking most OEMs to become the 2nd biggest Android OEM behind Samsung.


Android would have been a very bad idea. Samsung is already monopolizing that market and would have complicated any attempt by Nokia to break into it. If Nokia went Android they would already have hit bankruptcy I'm sure.

If you want an idea of how painful the "multi-OS" strategy is just take a look at HTC. They aren't doing too well at the moment.

#24 thealexweb

thealexweb

    Neowinian Senior

  • 7,319 posts
  • Joined: 23-September 07
  • Location: United Kingdom

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:24

Android would have been a very bad idea. Samsung is already monopolizing that market and would have complicated any attempt by Nokia to break into it. If Nokia went Android they would already have hit bankruptcy I'm sure.

If you want an idea of how painful the "multi-OS" strategy is just take a look at HTC. They aren't doing too well at the moment.


Bankruptcy is almost certain now for Nokia without further large payments from Microsoft, the $250mn payments they've been making per quarter and no where near enough to stave off bankruptcy. Why would Nokia have hit bankruptcy if it had gone for Android? Adopting Android makes sales soar a lot of the time e.g. Samsung.

And everyone here uses HTC as a poster child to attack OEMs using Android, but HTC was the OEM that dumped Windows Mobile and adopted Android first and as a result became a mainstream OEM. HTC has had a string on bad management decisions and sub-par phones, that's why they are having difficulty. Samsung has shown how successful Android done right can be.Also for whatever reason HTC's Android offerings sell a lot better than their WP offerings ever do or did.

#25 Melfster

Melfster

    Neowinian Senior

  • 1,717 posts
  • Joined: 04-August 05

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:31

Bankruptcy is almost certain now for Nokia without further large payments from Microsoft, the $250mn payments they've been making per quarter and no where near enough to stave off bankruptcy. Why would Nokia have hit bankruptcy if it had gone for Android? Adopting Android makes sales soar a lot of the time e.g. Samsung.

And everyone here uses HTC as a poster child to attack OEMs using Android, but HTC was the OEM that dumped Windows Mobile and adopted Android first and as a result became a mainstream OEM. HTC has had a string on bad management decisions and sub-par phones, that's why they are having difficulty. Samsung has shown how successful Android done right can be.Also for whatever reason HTC's Android offerings sell a lot better than their WP offerings ever do or did.



Samsung is really the only Android making any real money off android. I personally want to see a third ecosystem so that I as a consumer have choice and I think right now windows phone is the most viable alternative. I know some people say Blackberry but I think they don't have all the pieces of the ecosystem to be sustainable.

#26 +LogicalApex

LogicalApex

    Software Engineer

  • 6,456 posts
  • Joined: 14-August 02
  • Location: Philadelphia, PA
  • OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
  • Phone: Nexus 5

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:32

Bankruptcy is almost certain now for Nokia without further large payments from Microsoft, the $250mn payments they've been making per quarter and no where near enough to stave off bankruptcy. Why would Nokia have hit bankruptcy if it had gone for Android? Adopting Android makes sales soar a lot of the time e.g. Samsung.

And everyone here uses HTC as a poster child to attack OEMs using Android, but HTC was the OEM that dumped Windows Mobile and adopted Android first and as a result became a mainstream OEM. HTC has had a string on bad management decisions and sub-par phones, that's why they are having difficulty. Samsung has shown how successful Android done right can be.Also for whatever reason HTC's Android offerings sell a lot better than their WP offerings ever do or did.


If this were the early days of Android I would agree with you that Nokia could be very successful with Android. The reality is we're far from those early days and Samsung is entrenched as the defacto Android OEM. Samsung is well over 50% of the Android market! That creates a lot of competition for scraps by every other OEM out there.

Nokia made a wise choice to go WP as they need a platform that allows them to standout among consumers and not have any bone crushing competition at the outset. It just doesn't make sense for Nokia to take Samsung on directly in their state. This is what the talking heads seem to ignore.

#27 +Majesticmerc

Majesticmerc

    Resident Idealist

  • 6,198 posts
  • Joined: 24-August 05
  • Location: United Kingdom
  • OS: Arch Linux / Win 7
  • Phone: HTC One X

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:53

Nokia made a wise choice to go WP as they need a platform that allows them to standout among consumers and not have any bone crushing competition at the outset. It just doesn't make sense for Nokia to take Samsung on directly in their state. This is what the talking heads seem to ignore.


Tell me more about these unique WP8 devices:

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Nokia can't just survive on trying to "be unique", because inevitably the others will follow suit, just ask Apple how butthurt they are about the fact that most smartphones now resemble iPhones. That is a risk for companies with cash to spare. Nokia need to focus on putting out reliable, trustworthy hardware and putting faith back in the brand. Making them look like a safe bet. Windows Phone is still unproven to be a market success, and it's hardly a surprise that a lot of execs and analysts are nervous about their future.

#28 +LogicalApex

LogicalApex

    Software Engineer

  • 6,456 posts
  • Joined: 14-August 02
  • Location: Philadelphia, PA
  • OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
  • Phone: Nexus 5

Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:57

Tell me more about these unique WP8 devices:

<snipped>

Nokia can't just survive on trying to "be unique", because inevitably the others will follow suit, just ask Apple how butthurt they are about the fact that most smartphones now resemble iPhones. That is a risk for companies with cash to spare. Nokia need to focus on putting out reliable, trustworthy hardware and putting faith back in the brand. Making them look like a safe bet. Windows Phone is still unproven to be a market success, and it's hardly a surprise that a lot of execs and analysts are nervous about their future.


I wasn't talking solely about the look and feel of Nokia devices. As I mentioned, Samsung dominates the Android market. They sell more than 50% of the Android devices and make over 90% of the profits in the Android OEM space. Nokia needed to be in a position where they weren't going up against a competitor such as Samsung with very little room to differentiate themselves.

HTC isn't a dominating force in the WP space and Samsung is preoccupied with Android. Nokia has a chance with this choice. How well it will play out will be determined in the future, but there is room for three ecosystems in mobile, and possibly more.

#29 yowanvista

yowanvista

    Neowinian Senior

  • 1,702 posts
  • Joined: 19-February 10
  • Location: Mauritius
  • OS: Windows 8.1 Pro 64-Bit
  • Phone: i9001-CM11-KitKat 4.4.4 - Kernel 3.4.102

Posted 14 October 2012 - 20:06

Nokia should really consider Android, they can produce perfect hardware and Android would be the right choice if they 'tweaked' it according to their needs, i.e a Nokia launcher/UI with bundled Nokia services along with pureview. The result would be a device significantly different from the average droid. They don't really any contingency plan if WP fails.

#30 ~Johnny

~Johnny

    Earthling

  • 3,293 posts
  • Joined: 10-August 08
  • Location: London, England, Earth, Milky Way

Posted 14 October 2012 - 20:13

I personally would like to see both WP and Android from them.


Nokia don't have the software chops for it. Nokia has always had a habit of releasing phones with unfinished or broken software (the N9 somewhat got mostly by that by being delayed - though the Lumia 800 certainly did not_. I'd rather they didn't stretch themselves more than they need too and focus on creating a great product. Most of the market doesn't give a monkey what OS it's running, they just want something worth using - and the investment is smaller with Windows Phone.