135 posts in this topic

Posted

Lance Armstrong at no point won the Tour de France.

All semantics. He won 7 tour de France races and was then stripped of 7 titles. He had to have won all seven of the titles in order to be stripped of them.

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Posted

i wouldnt even want those wins from an organization with members who have no integrity and tell on their fellow cyclist. really, it all comes down to jealousy. i bet all those rats were doing the same thing. and doping or taking steroids doesnt magically give you skill and talent.

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Posted

what about the fact that he generated interest and funding and advertising in what was otherwise a sport no one cared about...

... in USA

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Posted

He's a f****** looser.

they should send him to jail

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Posted

Good-night, sweet prince.

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Posted

And that's what the whole thing comes down to, remixed - jealousy.

(...)

And it really does NOT help that the United States (and especially our bureaucracies) have their share of Europhiles.

lol wut? sorry i don't get it; it was USADA who complained first; then UCI made the final decision to ban him and strip him from the titles. What does France, Italy or other European country has got anything to do with this decision?

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Posted

I could care less if he did. Fact is that he won 7 times -- beating all of the other dopers along the way, making him one of the best (if not the best) tour rider of all time.

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Posted

i wouldnt even want those wins from an organization with members who have no integrity and tell on their fellow cyclist. really, it all comes down to jealousy. i bet all those rats were doing the same thing. and doping or taking steroids doesnt magically give you skill and talent.

So your concern isn't that Lance Armstrong cheated but that his teammates ratted him out? That's a rather bizarre way to look at it. Even stranger is that you try to rationalise his fake victories by stating he still needed "skill and talent", as if to say "sure he cheated but he cheated better than everybody else".

All semantics. He won 7 tour de France races and was then stripped of 7 titles. He had to have won all seven of the titles in order to be stripped of them.

If that makes you happy then so be it. He's still a disgrace to the sport and to his country.

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Posted

I could care less if he did. Fact is that he won 7 times -- beating all of the other dopers along the way, making him one of the best (if not the best) tour rider of all time.

35ifi8.jpg

The best doped tour rider of all time.

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Posted

So who did win those 7 Tour de France's then?

No one? If no one actually wins, why even race at all?

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Posted

I could care less if he did. Fact is that he won 7 times -- beating all of the other dopers along the way, making him one of the best (if not the best) tour rider of all time.

Firstly, the expression is "couldn't care less". Secondly, he didn't win - he was stripped of the titles. Sure he out-raced the other dopers but recognising that is like giving a kid an award for good behaviour because they only stabbed three other class mates, rather than four or five.

I think the attitude expressed by many Americans here highlights the real cultural issue - that it's considered better to cheat and win (even if that award is later stripped from you and you are disgraced) than to play fair and come second. It's a very arrogant philosophy but it's rife in US sports and culture in general. It reminds me of the US coach during the 2012 Olympics who accused a Chinese athlete of cheating even though there was absolutely no evidence to support it - it's the mentality that nobody could possibly beat them legitimately therefore they must be cheating. It's simply bad sportsmanship.

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Posted

LOL WAT?

He was a ****ty person and a fraud. How exactly does that make him a good role model? :s

okay. lets say he is a fraud and a bad role model. How exactly does exposing him make things better? Now there is no winner in 7 TdF and there's an entire generation that has simply grown a little more cynical and disillusioned because someone had an axe to grind. Like at the end of the dark knight... sometimes the truth isn't good enough, sometimes people's faith needs to be rewarded.

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Posted

People's visions of this paint a good picture of why the world is so ****ed right now. OKing cheating, saying that it is bad he was ratted out, and that as long as the others doped its ok for him to as well..... It's ****ed. You guys are seriously ****ed in the head.

It's time for people to put away such petty ****ing ideals, and start actually holding people accountable for their actions, whether good or bad.

Just because Lance seemed like a good person because of what he did, and now we know it was a big load of bs, doesn't make Lance still a good person. We should look down on him for ruining the name of the US in the sport, for cheating at a sport, for lying, and for not coming clean about it.

Instead, we have horrible minded people trying to justify cheating in any light they possibly can, because as the person above me just put, " What good will it do if we expose him. " The good is, we wont be blinded by a false claim or person. The truth might hurt, it might destroy, but it should be known. People who are willing to live under a lie, are just ****ing disgusting to me.

okay. lets say he is a fraud and a bad role model. How exactly does exposing him make things better? Now there is no winner in 7 TdF and there's an entire generation that has simply grown a little more cynical and disillusioned because someone had an axe to grind. Like at the end of the dark knight... sometimes the truth isn't good enough, sometimes people's faith needs to be rewarded.

Faith doesn't deserve a reward when it is built upon lies. All you are doing is trying to build a generation of people who will believe bull**** over truth. Stop trying to shelter people from the "evil" that others do.

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Posted

So who did win those 7 Tour de France's then?

No one? If no one actually wins, why even race at all?

I guess the one with the least dope in their system?

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Posted

I guess the one with the least dope in their system?

No one won, as mostly all were probably disqualified.

It's pathetic and sad, but it must be done. If something is contaminated, you clean it all out. It is a lesson the sport has learned, and will hopefully not have to relearn.

There doesn't have to be a winner or a good guy. Sometimes, ****ty things happen. Best to own up to it, learn from it, and proceed in a manner that is better suited to whatever is going on. Does no good to lie, cheat, or cover any of this up.

We should be angry at all those who cheated their way.

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Posted

From the NY Times:

vzSXS.jpg

Pictures = Tested positive for doping

2003 is ridiculous, 7 out of 10 were doped.

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Posted

As far as I'm aware (which is basically the same as "before the doping scandal, as far as I was aware") Contador and Schleck are still racing, as is/was Valverde. Vinokourov won a gold at the Olympics, and it really is hard not to wonder why nothing has been done about doping in cycling until this scandal, as with the pervasiveness of it shown in the graphic above, they must have known.

That said, I think massive props are due to anyone who didn't dope (obviously, kinda hard to say who that covers right now, unfortunately) because they basically gave up the chance to compete right at the top level of their sport, which they'd trained every single day for umpteen years for, without knowing that something quite so drastic as this would happen. They turned down the chance of success at the very highest level for something they believed in (or against, however you put it) and I'll have huge respect for them, once it becomes a bit more obvious who they are.

Unrelated side note: surely they should have spotted Armstrong doping earlier? Based on the graph above, he's aged incredibly well over the 99-06 period, must have been a bit of a giveaway :p

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Posted

Call me cynical, but I do wonder whether the reactions of some here would be different if Mr Armstrong was of a different nationality. Methinks it would be.

To those saying he crossed the line first, I ask whether that would also apply to say card counting in casinos, it's all cheating after all.

I'm fairly certain that growing up with westerns on TV that any form of cheating resulted in being shot on sight.

A cheat is a cheat and should not be lauded in anyway. I would suggest you watch this 4 Corners show on the subject.

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Posted

A cheat is a cheat and should not be lauded in anyway. I would suggest you watch this 4 Corners show on the subject.

Unless everyone is cheating.

Of course, these people are all lauded with money and acclaim while they're winning. I doubt Lance would go back and change what he did, much like Arnold Schwarzenegger repeatedly has admitted that using steroids was a good decision because it got him to a level he would have never got to before.

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Posted

Unless everyone is cheating.

Of course, these people are all lauded with money and acclaim while they're winning. I doubt Lance would go back and change what he did, much like Arnold Schwarzenegger repeatedly has admitted that using steroids was a good decision because it got him to a level he would have never got to before.

But it's a huge assumption on your part that everyone was cheating, I don't believe that for a minute. It actually saddens me that you believe that every single athlete involved in cycling was using performance enhancing drugs.

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Posted

I think all boring sports like cycling or baseball or even football should be forced to use steroids. Maybe it won't be so painful to watch.

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Posted

The whole assertion that this is some pro European, Anti-American thing is absolutely absurd, lest we not forget the American cycling and doping authorities were the first to investigate Lance's actions, and it's on their findings that the TDF's operators have decided to strip Lance of his titles. Seriously, just get the hell over your silly obsession with patriotism and swallow the facts, the US cycling authorities are responsible for Lance being called a cheat and everything that's preceded has done so on their findings, in fact they have stripped him of every competitive result obtained since 1998.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story as they say.

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Posted

If that makes you happy then so be it. He's still a disgrace to the sport and to his country.

I have actually agreed with a decent amount of what you have expressed in this thread, I think dude is a loser pretty much all around. I give him credit for the money he has raised for charity, but that is pretty much it. So with that said, let me say...

President Obama represents the entire country. I think most people will agree with that statement.

Some dude on a bike who happens to be from the US? Yeah, he does not represent the whole country. He is just from the country. HUGE difference.

So while I definitely consider his actions disgraceful, I do not feel disgrace for the country.

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Posted

I have actually agreed with a decent amount of what you have expressed in this thread, I think dude is a loser pretty much all around. I give him credit for the money he has raised for charity, but that is pretty much it. So with that said, let me say...

President Obama represents the entire country. I think most people will agree with that statement.

Some dude on a bike who happens to be from the US? Yeah, he does not represent the whole country. He is just from the country. HUGE difference.

So while I definitely consider his actions disgraceful, I do not feel disgrace for the country.

I agree with this. He does not represent this country. In sports only the people on the Olympic team represent the country. They are chosen for that reason.

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Posted

I have actually agreed with a decent amount of what you have expressed in this thread, I think dude is a loser pretty much all around. I give him credit for the money he has raised for charity, but that is pretty much it. So with that said, let me say...

President Obama represents the entire country. I think most people will agree with that statement.

Some dude on a bike who happens to be from the US? Yeah, he does not represent the whole country. He is just from the country. HUGE difference.

Actually, as leader of the main US cycling team - a team that received millions of dollars in funding from the US government - and as one of the highest profile US athletes he did represent the country and by cheating he not only disgraced himself but his country. Of course his actions aren't as significant as that of the US President but he still damaged the reputation of the US in relation to competitive sport and integrity.

I agree with this. He does not represent this country. In sports only the people on the Olympic team represent the country. They are chosen for that reason.

He represented the US in the 2000 Sydney Olympics and won a bronze medal, which it is now possible he will also be stripped of.

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