news Microsoft was right! Surface's perceived resolution better than iPa

[LaP]

I'm more interested to see what OEMs do, particularly if Nokia gets involved.

Sony Vaio Duo 11 looks really interesting imo

[Dashel]

Pro is 1080, which means the same gobbledegook will apply there if you believe a lower functional resolution is better. I'll take two visible apps personally. The font preference towards Surface is the interesting bit for me, not how well the NYT site zooms.

[123456789A]

Pretty much everyone hates Surface.. watch Joshua Topolsky review but most of them are reactions like his.

Joshua Topolsky reviewing the Surface is like a vegetarian reviewing steak.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Sony Vaio Duo 11 looks really interesting imo

It's definitely interesting, though my concern would be build quality. It looks like the sort of product that would break quite easily. Still, it's good to see manufacturers opting for different approaches rather than all lining up to produce the same generic products.

[Growled Member]

6 to 3 for Surface is not a very convincing test to me.

[jakem1]

:rofl: So bad

Only if you have an axe to grind. The majority of the reviews have been very good and the main gripe is limited to the lack of apps currently in the store. That will change very quickly once Windows 8 is released.

[Raa]

Man, 9 people. That's a comprehensive test right there...

[Stetson]

You do realize that motion video is not a great test of perceived resolution, right?

The better test is static images with fine detail, or static text. The iPad won Wired's comparison when text is displayed.

Not saying that that's necessarily bad for the Surface. If it won the video test then it clearly is a great display. Contrast, black levels, saturation, etc. all count towards good looking video but have little to do with perceived resolution.

[George P Global Moderator]

If the reviews say the text looked good on the surface and then also say the videos looked good then I think to the average consumer it's good. You can bang on about higher resolution but honestly it's like any other hardware spec out there and when it comes to average users they don't know the difference and really don't care.

I think the more important information to them , after price, is storage, battery life and finally if it's got the apps they want to use etc. Only the people on forums like this go on and on about the details to this extent.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

doesn't text come down to text rendering algorithms also? we all know ClearType is different then how Apple does smoothing on fonts... ClearType even though it does the whole subpixel thing, still can look pixelated at times

I doubt MS is doing ClearType on these devices, or if they are they're only doing it in certain cases (When the device is in landscape)

iOS doesn't do sub-pixel AA at all, even on the first gen devices with the 163ppi (or so), and on higher PPI devices it's not needed.

[a1ien]

Ok is a n00b. I'm going to have to quote a huge chunk of the article, though. Bold and italic is mine.

In our video test, running an HD version of The Avengers, twice as many viewers preferred the Surface to the iPad (six to three). Two others expressed no preference. Most noted that the difference in video quality was negligible. Read: Surface wins but not a big step up.

Text was an entirely different story.

We pulled up a page from The New York Times? website that had multiple typefaces and an image, and allowed testers to zoom in or out and scroll the screens up and down to each person?s comfort level. It was a blowout. Every single person expressed a preference for the iPad display. In most cases, a strong one. Multiple people described it as ?no contest.? Read: Text is much better on the iPad. Well duh, reading is the main reason we want retina displays. We have work to do.

What is wrong with OP??

[BajiRav]

Pretty much everyone hates Surface.. watch Joshua Topolsky review but most of them are reactions like his.

He complained about kickstand not working properly on his lap and in portrait - not sure if I want to trust his review.

Oh btw, not everyone hated it. Read wired, anandtech, ars or even Mossberg!

[BattleDaggit]

He complained about kickstand not working properly on his lap and in portrait - not sure if I want to trust his review.

Oh btw, not everyone hated it. Read wired, anandtech, ars or even Mossberg!

I'm not going to waste my time reading anything written by Mossberg, the biggest douchebag 'journalist' I know of. But if his love of Apple and irrational hate of anything Microsoft has still permitted a positive review, either Surface is spectacular, or he's been paid off. While I'm sure Surface has a lot of positive qualities, and I'd easily pick one over an iPad, I'm tempted to believe he has a wheelbarrow of Microsoft cash.

[Calum Veteran]

I'm not going to waste my time reading anything written by Mossberg, the biggest douchebag 'journalist' I know of. But if his love of Apple and irrational hate of anything Microsoft has still permitted a positive review, either Surface is spectacular, or he's been paid off. While I'm sure Surface has a lot of positive qualities, and I'd easily pick one over an iPad, I'm tempted to believe he has a wheelbarrow of Microsoft cash.

That cynicism and speculation is really unfair because you have nothing to back your suspicions up :/

[BajiRav]

On topic - I am sure iPad's increased resolution is better than Surface in many cases but in practice if I had a Surface - I guess I won't be bothered too much about the PPI count. It's the same case on my aging WP7 (Focus) - where every single Android/iOS fanboy has made fun of limited screen resolution of WP but in practice it holds up nicely to any retina phone screens in actual use. This is just another iteration of MP myth. It's good and makes a difference but only up to a certain extent.

I wish MS had chosen to go with higher PPI just to shut up spec-######.

I'm not going to waste my time reading anything written by Mossberg, the biggest douchebag 'journalist' I know of. But if his love of Apple and irrational hate of anything Microsoft has still permitted a positive review, either Surface is spectacular, or he's been paid off. While I'm sure Surface has a lot of positive qualities, and I'd easily pick one over an iPad, I'm tempted to believe he has a wheelbarrow of Microsoft cash.

Believe me - I avoid him as much as possible but I think it was MJF's review roundup that linked him and it was too tempting to pass over.

That cynicism and speculation is really unfair because you have nothing to back your suspicions up :/

I too, will be cynical if Mossberg or Pogue said anything positive about Microsoft (or non-Apple in particular). They both are well known Apple shills.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I can't help but be amused by the slating certain people are levelling at Walt Mossberg without even having the decency to read his damn review.. it took me 10 seconds to find it on Google and is largely very positive.

http://allthingsd.co...-with-pc-chops/

I have been testing the Surface almost daily for three weeks and I like it. It?s beautifully and solidly built and it?s the purest expression of Microsoft?s new Windows 8 touchscreen operating system which, like the Surface, goes on sale on Friday. The new operating system also works on laptops and desktops. It can be operated with a mouse or touch pad, but its dramatically different, touch-optimized user interface begs to be used on a touchscreen tablet.

This isn?t a cheap iPad knockoff. It?s a unique tablet, made of a type of magnesium with a feeling of quality and care.

These don't seem like the comments of an Apple shill to me.

[Yazoo]

Read carefully.

He said that when playing video people chose the Surface - meaning the perceived image quality was better.

But when looking at text they hands-down chose the iPad - meaning the Surface's resolution is worse.

What his test supports is that the Surface's screen has better color reproduction, contrast and/or viewing angles. His tests confirm that the iPad's perceived resolution is superior.

or the surface has better video codecs

[Noir Angel]

Ok is a n00b. I'm going to have to quote a huge chunk of the article, though. Bold and italic is mine.

In our video test, running an HD version of The Avengers, twice as many viewers preferred the Surface to the iPad (six to three). Two others expressed no preference. Most noted that the difference in video quality was negligible. Read: Surface wins but not a big step up.

Text was an entirely different story.

We pulled up a page from The New York Times? website that had multiple typefaces and an image, and allowed testers to zoom in or out and scroll the screens up and down to each person?s comfort level. It was a blowout. Every single person expressed a preference for the iPad display. In most cases, a strong one. Multiple people described it as ?no contest.? Read: Text is much better on the iPad. Well duh, reading is the main reason we want retina displays. We have work to do.

What is wrong with OP??

And that's where we touch upon the fundamentals, for phones and tablets readability of text is the most important matter. Especially important when your tablet is the same price as those of your competitors.

[Calum Veteran]

[. . .]

I too, will be cynical if Mossberg or Pogue said anything positive about Microsoft (or non-Apple in particular). They both are well known Apple shills.

But there's no proof or evidence to suggest that they're merely not being biased. They're Apple fans, just like MG Siegler is, but that doesn't automatically mean any of them are being paid by Microsoft to state that they like a product, if they ever happen to like a Microsoft product.

[coth]

We ran two blind tests, pitting the Surface RT

against a third-generation Retina Display iPad. Both

tablets were side by side in a room with ambient light

from large windows.

Basically saying - they are trying to find an excuse. Yet still failed. Whatever they do with 174 ppi text will still be so noticeably pixelated.

[Big b0b]

would still rather have an asus transformer for 300$ 400$ with keyboard.

[techbeck]

You know this will do nothing to convince the apple and android fans, especially the fandroids who thinks spec are everything, but then that's what google and the OEMs thought them with poorly optimized software and hardware.

I'll hold out untill I can afford a pro anyway though, but not because of the res.

Convince of what? That the Surface is a better machine? I cant speak for anyone else, but it takes more than a little better hardware to make me want to use a device. I prefer the Android OS currently, however, I am hoping W8 does do well and then I will give it a try. Not going to jump ship over what many think will be a big flop. I waited 6 months before I bought my first Android device, other wise I probably would of kicked myself in the nutts and bought an iPhone

[farmeunit]

You know this will do nothing to convince the apple and android fans, especially the fandroids who thinks spec are everything, but then that's what google and the OEMs thought them with poorly optimized software and hardware.

Seriously? Nice comment. Way to profile and unnecessary at that.

Basically saying - they are trying to find an excuse. Yet still failed. Whatever they do with 174 ppi text will still be so noticeably pixelated.

Cracks me up when people talk about this stuff on such a small screen. If you're holding it right up to your face, then maybe, but who really does that? If you are doing that, then you should probably get a REAL e-reader and save your eyes.

[techbeck]

I am downloading Win8 now on my new laptop for $15 from MS Upgrade Advisor. Not going to upgrade right away tho but I have the trial loaded another laptop.

$15 is crap tho. Should be free if the laptop was bought within a certain time frame of the Win8 release date. I just bought my laptop a couple weeks ago.

[COKid]

I am downloading Win8 now on my new laptop for $15 from MS Upgrade Advisor. Not going to upgrade right away tho but I have the trial loaded another laptop.

$15 is crap tho. Should be free if the laptop was bought within a certain time frame of the Win8 release date. I just bought my laptop a couple weeks ago.

And this has what to do with this thread? And if $15 is "crap", why did you spend it? :/