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Posted

@HawkMan, I don't see this as creating a uniform genetic makeup for the entire human race. What they seem to be doing is removing the imperfections (diseases, defectiveness,..) out, the genetic makeup would still be dependent on your family. Are diseases and imperfections an immunity system for humans? if they can be removed before birth, then why not? Throwing many chemicals into our body may be reducing our immunity more than genetic manipulation could, yet we still do it. You mention that medicine in some cases assists to what our body still does, but it's still unnatural when you do it in quantities the body could never do by itself. Diseases and defectiveness is not what makes up our individuality and uniqueness.

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Posted

[quote name='qdave' timestamp='1351367317' post='595277389']
But we weren't created. So its a good opportunity to learn about how we function, and eliminate certain diseases
[/quote]
and to continue your sentence:

"before we make any artificial improvement".

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Posted

I gotta tell you... I've always been pretty happy with myself. I have no desire to
get plastic surgery or the like to make "improvements". But if I could eliminate
disease, aging, and the like? I'd do it in a ****ing heartbeat. If I could get
stronger bones, better eyesight, etc? I'd do it without hesitation.

Call our existence whatever you like... but if our design is "perfect" according
to some Higher Being, then that Being is a dumbass. Give me immortality
and a space ship and I'll be a happy man.
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Posted

[quote name='THolman' timestamp='1351367855' post='595277419']I look at this like cloning, something that's probably never going to go anywhere. But entertaining the discussion, I'm definitely not against using science and technology to improve life and help people who need it. I'm just saying that I don't think we should mess with genetics 'just because'[/quote]

You say that as if you think scientists are just doing this for laughs or because it's interesting. The reality is that there is huge potential for such research, as it could lead to the end of birth defects and lead to improved quality of life.

[quote name='THolman' timestamp='1351367855' post='595277419']I don't think it's worth the risk of just trying out new stuff to see what happens, or to make sure people get a kid with a certain color of eyes. I think we have a higher error rate than nature itself, and there's a huge risk of screwing up someone's life when you start messing with this stuff.[/quote]

Again, you attempt to trivialise legitimate research by associating it with cosmetic changes and experimentation. We need a regulatory framework in place to ensure that any genetic changes made are thoroughly understood and of legitimate benefit. Genetic experiments on animals like mice and primates can give us a good understanding of what impact the changes will have, which can be combined with scientific modelling and gene research.

[quote name='THolman' timestamp='1351367855' post='595277419']I can't think of any example where having three parents offers an improvement for any of the issues you mentioned.[/quote]

However, if it poses effectively no risk to the individual then why shouldn't multiple people be able to share a genetic child? Just because it doesn't happen in nature doesn't mean it should be discounted.

[quote name='THolman' timestamp='1351367855' post='595277419']And since humans are designed to have two parents, genetically speaking, I can't help but think that bad things could come of trying to change that.[/quote]

As I have said, thorough research and regulation is necessary to ensure that the risk of adverse effects is minimised or eliminated altogether; and while it is natural to express scepticism about such research, without a learned understanding of genetics your concern is pure speculation.

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1351367584' post='595277405']Still drugs and genetic manipulation on a designer "baby" level is not even remotely the same, again, look up the dangers of lack of genetic diversification.[/quote]

Given the scientific understanding of the importance of genetic diversification any regulatory body would need to ensure that genetic diversification is maintained and that there isn't a tendency to rely on certain genetic traits. Considering that even laypeople such as yourself understand the risks it is safe to assume that scientists and regulators also do.

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1351380228' post='595277873']

You say that as if you think scientists are just doing this for laughs or because it's interesting. The reality is that there is huge potential for such research, as it could lead to the end of birth defects and lead to improved quality of life.
[/quote]

Honestly, I'm really not seeing the benefits here. How does having two mothers offer [i]any[/i] benefit whatsoever, other than satisfying someone's weird fantasy love life? Like I said, I'm not objecting to using what we know about genetics to save lives and heal people, but this doesn't seem to have any legitimate purpose other than to be able to say 'we did.'

And as far as science and regulatory bodies watching out for us... history leads me to question how reliable that oversight is ;)

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Posted

[quote name='McCordRm' timestamp='1351378303' post='595277825']
I gotta tell you... I've always been pretty happy with myself. I have no desire to
get plastic surgery or the like to make "improvements". But if I could eliminate
disease, aging, and the like? I'd do it in a ****ing heartbeat. If I could get
stronger bones, better eyesight, etc? I'd do it without hesitation.

Call our existence whatever you like... but if our design is "perfect" according
to some Higher Being, then that Being is a dumbass. Give me immortality
and a space ship and I'll be a happy man.
[/quote]
I'd rather keep all the disease, aging, and the like.

Because it is precisely those things that make human stronger.

P.S. BTW, you think those pharmaceutical industry will let it happen? Without disease??? Man we can't milk the patients of their money.

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Posted

[quote name='Hum' timestamp='1351352531' post='595276857']
I don't see what would be so wrong with having "designer babies" -- seems like a good thing.
[/quote]

The movie "Gattaca" comes to mind when the idea of designer babies comes up.

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1351380228' post='595277873']
Given the scientific understanding of the importance of genetic diversification any regulatory body would need to ensure that genetic diversification is maintained and that there isn't a tendency to rely on certain genetic traits. Considering that even laypeople such as yourself understand the risks it is safe to assume that scientists and regulators also do.
[/quote]

Historically I'd say the issue is that scientists "think" they understand the risks, and that they can work around whatever there may be and fix it later and that there work is so perfect they don't need to worry about it.

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Posted

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1351354112' post='595276909']
untill you get defects from manupulation, lack of genetic variety causes the human race to lose immunitites we otherwise wouldn't have had, people who can't afford to #design" their babies, get lower class babies who won't be allowed to mingle with the "perfects", and so on and so on. the issues vary from purely sociopolitical to genuine genetic dangers.
[/quote]

yes yes we have all seen the movie xD ... but i agree its a bad thing ... people need to be genetically flawed it what allows for progress... with no way to progress there is no reason to even exist

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Posted

[quote name='HawkMan' timestamp='1351354112' post='595276909']
untill you get defects from manupulation, lack of genetic variety causes the human race to lose immunitites we otherwise wouldn't have had, people who can't afford to #design" their babies, get lower class babies who won't be allowed to mingle with the "perfects", and so on and so on. the issues vary from purely sociopolitical to genuine genetic dangers.
[/quote]
[quote name='THolman' timestamp='1351355046' post='595276943']
Why can't we just let humans be normal?...
[/quote]

Would you be against a method of ensuring your child is free from genetic conditions, free from things such as down-syndrome?
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Posted

that depends on how the method is implemented.

If it's a method where genetic "fixes" get put into all babies preventatively, then yes.
If it's being selectively introduces to babies that have it or at most high risk parents. then I would probably accept it.

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Posted

I'm against designer babies, but why would anyone be against this strictly for medical purposes? Some places already check for extreme medical conditions with fetuses and give the option to terminate them if severe problems are detected, so using this better technique you could stop schizophrenia, heart problems, and loads of things like that. Heck I'm all for that, just think what it's like to have voices in your head you can't ignore telling you to pick up knives and stab people permanently for your entire life, no-one should have to deal with that.

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