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#46 Joni_78

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:50

That's what I was referring to when I said that it used to be the disc that determined the install type. There used to actually be upgrade/full install discs...and as long as you knew what you were doing you could use an install key to do a full install.

This is no longer the case since the key itself determines what happens. :)



This is my last time stating this, and it is fact not supposition. So please do not keep posting your doubts over and over again.

The KEY determines the install type, not the media.

The difference is who still has a base OS install that is eligible for upgrade vs those who do not. NOTHING prevents a clean install using those keys as long as there is still a base OS installed. You can reboot and do a completely clean install with the upgrade discs...as long as there is a base OS still present on the HD...you can even wipe the HD once it verifies an eligible license is present.


That's not how it works with Upgrade Assistant. I got Retail disc from TechNet, I installed it and activated with the key I got from upgrade assistant. I installed on a NEW empty SSD, that computer had no other drives.

What seems to determine if it activates it succesfully is one registry key. When doing a clean install, by default that registry key is 0 when installing from Retail disc and activates ok, if installed from upgrade media that key is 1 by default and your activation fails. Changing that key to 0 when installed on upgrade media activates it without errors.

I think that the keys that come trough upgrade assistant are actually full retail keys, not upgrade. Upgrade media that it downloads, limits if it can be used as a clean install or not. Dunno why they did the upgrade assistant like this.

But it's true that usually it has worked as you stated, this is just how upgrade assistant works, it gives retail keys and it is limited as upgrade on media.


#47 Shane Nokes

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:53

According to this article, you can. :)

http://www.davejunia...ade-experience/


Actually that's not what that article says at all. That article details an upgrade from a hard drive that has a modified Win7 install.

So that doesn't answer the question. I already provided the correct answer.


#48 The Dark Knight

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:55

Actually that's not what that article says at all. That article details an upgrade from a hard drive that has a modified Win7 install.

So that doesn't answer the question. I already provided the correct answer.


Oh ok, my bad. Didn't read all the posts in this thread!

#49 Shane Nokes

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:55

Shane, I found my problem, I'm trying to run the Upgrade assistant from Windows 8 Enterprise Evaluation Edition
That's when I get the message that it's not available in my country, if I run it from my girlfriends computer, which has Win7 on it, it runs just fine

Strange error message though


Ah. That would explain why you got an error message. I agree that the one you received is strange though...glad you got it sorted. :)

#50 The Dark Knight

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:56

this is just how upgrade assistant works, it gives retail keys and it is limited as upgrade on media.


So if I were to use a Retail ISO downloaded from Technet /MSDN with a key bought from the Upgrade Assistant Wizard, it would allow me to do a clean installation on a formatted /brand new HDD?

#51 Stoffel

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:57

Ah. That would explain why you got an error message. I agree that the one you received is strange though...glad you got it sorted. :)


I was sure I read somewhere you could upgrade from any of the Windows 8 versions that where out
But I guess not, so now making a separate partition to install Win7 back on to run the upgrade assistant

#52 +Brando212

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:58

I was sure I read somewhere you could upgrade from any of the Windows 8 versions that where out
But I guess not, so now making a separate partition to install Win7 back on to run the upgrade assistant

yeah the evaluation specifically states that you can't upgrade from it though

#53 Shane Nokes

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:02

That's not how it works. I got Retail disc from TechNet, I installed it and activated with the key I got from upgrade assistant. I installed on a NEW empty SSD, that computer had no other drives.

What seems to determine if it activates it succesfully is one registry key. When doing a clean install, by default that registry key is 0 when installing from Retail disc and activates ok, if installed from upgrade media that key is 1 by default and your activation fails. Changing that key to 0 when installed on upgrade media activates it without errors.

I think that the keys that come trough uprgade assistant are actually full retail keys, not upgrade. That upgrade media that it downloads limits if it can be uset as a clean install or not. Dunno why they did the upgrade assistant like this.

But it's true that usually it has worked as you stated, this is just how upgrade assistant works, it gives retail keys and it is limited as upgrade on media.

That would be very odd I'd that were the case.

That would break the entire concept of the key controlling the install type. Well at least it would for this specific scenario.

Any info that backs that up out of curiosity?


#54 Stoffel

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:02

yeah the evaluation specifically states that you can't upgrade from it though


But I was hoping that I at least could use the Upgrade assistant to make the purchase and do the download, from there do clean install

#55 Colin McGregor

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:03

when I got my pc it came with vista, I later got the windows 7 upgrade disk for free for buying the pc a week before win7. I now use the win7 upgrade disk as a retail fresh install. I just hit custom and delete the partition and click next. It installs win7 fresh with no hp bulk crap. So the win8 might be the same.

#56 Shane Nokes

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:05

when I got my pc it came with vista, I later got the windows 7 upgrade disk for free for buying the pc a week before win7. I now use the win7 upgrade disk as a retail fresh install. I just hit custom and delete the partition and click next. It installs win7 fresh with no hp bulk crap. So the win8 might be the same.


The question wasn't clean install...it was full install. In other words bare empty drive with nothing to upgrade from. :)

#57 Joni_78

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:05

So if I were to use a Retail ISO downloaded from Technet /MSDN with a key bought from the Upgrade Assistant Wizard, it would allow me to do a clean installation on a formatted /brand new HDD?


Yes.

I was sure I read somewhere you could upgrade from any of the Windows 8 versions that where out
But I guess not, so now making a separate partition to install Win7 back on to run the upgrade assistant


Upgrade assistant works on Windows 8 if you run it with Windows XP SP3 compatibility mode.

#58 George P

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:07

MS says you can do clean installs BUT you have to have an older windows installed already. I also wonder if you can, when you pick to keep nothing (which starts a clean install) if it asks you where to install it and if you can then pick a new hdd in the process.

You can use the upgrade media to go from 32bit to 64bit but they say you lose everything in the process, so it does a clean install. My question after this is do you get to pick the location? I also want to upgrade from Win7 32bit to Win8 64bit but put it on my new SSD and not the same HDD Win7 is installed on right now.

#59 mikeyx12

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:11

Generally that's the case with VL & OEM Keys and such, but not as common with retail keys.

Using a random one for install I agree, but using a random one just to give to someone to verify that it's a working key? Much more likely...which is why the license terms specifically state that you need to have a copy of the OS already installed on the drive in order to do the upgrade.

Any other method is a violation of the licensing terms.


There's a difference between a "working" key and a "valid" key. A valid key can be used to say that it's a genuine key, but that doesn't mean it's going to work if it's been overused. I'd have expected blacklisting to be higher on retail keys because they can be used on anything, unlike OEM keys.

If you've already got a copy of Windows installed and activated (the right way), it's unlikely that would be achieved with a key found online, as it wouldn't activate online or by phone after being used more than 30~ times or so.

#60 OP ir0nw0lf

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:11

Actually that's not what that article says at all. That article details an upgrade from a hard drive that has a modified Win7 install.

So that doesn't answer the question. I already provided the correct answer.

Might want to go re-read the article completely. The first part of it talks about him using a SLIC-injected BIOS/non-legit Windows. Bottom of article is another scenario:

Popular Questions
For users who are wondering if you can use the Upgrade version of Windows and do a clean install on a system with no OS – Yes, you can. This is a question most people ask, worrying that they have to first install a preceding copy of Windows before using Windows 8 upgrade. If your computer goes up in flames in future or your drive dies and you have to start completely fresh: No problem, just stick in the DVD / USB, boot from it, enter your product key and you’re good to go. You do not need an OS or its old product key.
It is clear from above that the Upgrade Assistant simply verifies if you qualify to upgrade to Windows 8 Pro and if you do, allows you to purchase a Windows 8 Pro license. This license or product key is to a full version of Windows 8 Pro. The moment the license/product key is sold to you – it is good for full installations of Windows 8 Pro. I hope this clarifies the queries of most people. You don’t have to keep your old OS / old product key. Just keep the Windows 8 Pro product key assigned to you.

You don’t have to keep your old OS / old product key. Just keep the Windows 8 Pro product key assigned to you.


Also, non legit copies of Windows 7 activated via SLIC injection qualifies for the upgrade. I encourage people who have been using non legit copies of Windows 7 to take advantage of the US$39.99 offer to convert to a legit copy of Windows 8. It’s really cheap for a fully featured OS.

Now this does not 100% specify if the author actually did try the install on a fresh, empty drive.

BTW everyone, didn't mean to start WWIII in this thread, just trying to find the answer. So many different install scenarios and lots of inconsistent and/or unverified answers. I certainly don't expect an actual MS employee to jump in and give an answer.