Windows 8 Is a Desktop Disaster

[+Fahim S. MVC]

I think 'a disaster' may be a little hyperbolic.

Personally, I don't think they should have done away with the Start Button, but am quite happy they got rid of the Start Menu which quite frankly wasn't working and hadn't since its introduction in Windows 95, despite constant evolution.

However, despite my preferences and my view in terms of how Windows should/could have evolved, I am a grown up and can evolve without throwing my toys out of the pram. Shame this isn't true of everyone. Unlike some users, no one is holding a gun to my head and forcing me to upgrade - if I didn't like Windows 8, I'd be using Windows 7 still and not be moaning about it on a public forum. But that's just me.

Most (normal) people don't use desktops these days anyway - the more common use-case is now the Laptop (even in a corporate environment) and this will head towards more interesting form factors which sit somewhere between Tablet and Laptop. Microsoft have realised that they only really have to cater for the 80% in the middle of bell distribution and the 10% ether side don't really matter.

[Shadrack]

Is Windows 8 a desktop disaster?

It might be. It is hard to say at this point as it was just released. The real tell is going to be if MS does well in the market with average joe blow consumers.

I'm tired of reading what all you nerds think because it really isn't all that relevant. Sorry. It just isn't. My opinion of Windows 8 (which is mostly positive) is really irrelevant because I know that I don't represent the full population of Windows users.

Truth of the matter is I doubt Windows 8 will make people rage-quit Windows and Microsoft for good and convert to Mac OS X or Linux. So I don't think MS is going to lose any of their existing market if Windows 8 for desktop flops. Secondly, MS stands to actually make gains in the tablet market with Windows 8 and that may be deemed an independent success even if everyone who is running desktop Windows 8 doesn't like it for whatever reason.

I'm not sure we will know the answer to this question until Windows 9 is released. Depending on which direction MS decides to go with Windows 9 will probably be in response to how the general consumer felt about Windows 8.

[Hum]

I'd been told time and time again there was no going back; what's done is done, you have to accept it, there's no living in the past. But a violation this total demanded from me only one response.

I had to uninstall Windows 8, and I had to do it immediately.

Sounds like profound wisdom to me. :p

[Boo Berry]

I disagree, in my opinion and experience everything about Windows 8 so far has been nothing short of spectacular. I've found that I can navigate the "Metro/Modern" start menu faster than I could with the traditional start menu - meaning I can open the program(s) I want faster. While yes, it does take some getting used to, I still found it quite enjoyable. And I'm not even using Start8 or any other start menu replacement either!

[Som]

You'd leave it on because it prevents software from messing with the OS if you don't want it to. It doesn't only popup when you try to run something, but if something launches in the background that you're not aware of, or if malware attempts to alter something, it can prevent it.

He takes the same attitude to Windows Update as home that he has at work. I understand the need to delay updates on a large network, but the last time I was there helping out they were running about a year behind Windows Update. They were also running Office 2000 without any service packs installed and critical security updates were just ignored.

seriously if you have any clue about using a computer you can protect yourself against malware or any other software that you don't intend to run and I've repaired hundreds of computers with UAC on that have had malware. It might help a little but anyone who is half knowledgeable about computers wouldn't leave it on.. personally I've never gotten malware and only one virus in the last 10 years .

What company is it and how many computers ? Office 2000 does the job and if you've hundreds of computers it might not be cost effective to install office 2010 just because its shiny and new...

Here's my first opinion of MS OS's over there years as I used them

1. DOS .... all i knew, did the job

2. Windows 3.1 ... ahh bring back DOS

3. Windows 95 ... oooooh i like it :D

4. Windows 98 ... much the same as 95

5. Windows ME ... very fast ... then very buggy

6. Windows 2000 ... very stable (sigh of relief)

7. Windows XP ... yucky theme ... me no likey

8. Windows XP Service Pack 1 ... better , fast oooh I can theme yay ... me likey

9. Windows Vista ... Me likey too

10. Windows 7 ... ooh this is perfect, didn't realize how bad windows vista was ha

11. Windows 8 ... different ... will give it a go.... don't like .... try again ... ack still don't like...

12 Windows 8 Service Pack 1 .... will wait and see....

[hagjohn]

I have most of the programs I use pinned to the taskbar, so I never really have to go into start.

[Growled Member]

Having used Windows 8 for a day now, I doubt disaster is the right word. It will sell millions because it is now the default on all new computers. It is different but not all bad. Everyone that I know that sees it likes the looks of it.

[Hum]

^ Not I, says the cat.

I like a clean, uncluttered desktop -- which Windows 8 ain't.

[NEVER85]

^ Not I, says the cat.

I like a clean, uncluttered desktop -- which Windows 8 ain't.

What? The desktop can be as clean as you want it. What would you prefer, a Luna-esque interface from your beloved XP?

[Totalaero]

^ Not I, says the cat.

I like a clean, uncluttered desktop -- which Windows 8 ain't.

Windows 8 desktop comes with nothing but a Recycle Bin which you can pin any programs you want to run in it. And the Start Screen is neatly adjusted to fit your personal needs.

[Calum Veteran]

Some good points and I understand where you're coming from.

However I do think the things you mention *are* subjective, and will be different for every person who uses Windows 8. It's impossible to say they're not when so many people are expressing similar concerns about certain areas of the OS.

I mean - for example, do you not feel that it will confuse new users the notion of being able to run applications within the Start Screen environment (e.g. Internet Explorer) but then have certainly applications that take you out to the desktop? I understand entirely why Microsoft have done this and it seems that, longer term their only goal must be to nix the desktop completely and ensconce users permanently within this Start Sceen environment completely and have all applications launch and run within this framework. Once this migration is complete and the desktop is no more, then I can see Windows 9 / 10 / 11 (or whatever version it is by the time this happens!) being a much better environment for new users but I feel this hybrid as it exists in Windows 8 is going to do more damage, than be helpful.

As a fairly long time Windows user the option to float between the Start Screen and the desktop doesn't confuse me - and indeed I accept why they've done it. However my feeling is more of frustration because I don't necessarily believe that the "desktop" as we know it is wrong. I like the desktop. I like having a view of what applications I'm running, and I like being able to easily close applications I don't want, etc etc. I find the Start Screen environment too simplistic and dumbed down. And I guess I just don't like the fact that, assuming the desktop is heading out to pasture, I don't have a say in it - Microsoft have made our minds up for us.

If that makes sense? :)

I don't think I articulated myself very well when I said I don't believe they're subjective views :) I accept that different people have different abilities, and some may find it unusable. But I have a problem with someone saying "this operating system is unusable," in a manner that seems an attempt to convey that view as objective (especially in a website article). If some people can use the operating system, it can't reasonably be deemed unusable in the objective sense. If some people don't have the skills or the ability to use it, but many people do, Microsoft aren't at fault, as far as I can tell. If Microsoft had tried to cater for people of absolutely all abilities, including what could be a niche of users who can't use something the majority deem very easy, they would have had to make our experience worse and possibly awful. Not only that, but it's probably impossible for someone to make an operating system user interface that everyone finds easy to use, because some people simply don't find any software easy to use. It's probable that some people can't use Windows 7, just like some people can't use Windows 8. Of course I'm only suggesting that it may be a minority who will have trouble with Windows 8; it could well be the majority, for all I know, but as I find it very easy to use, I'm happy that Microsoft haven't harmed my experience in order to cater to those people (that might be deemed selfish, but surely it's understandable that I'd like the best experience possible).

In regard to your second paragraph, I actually don't think that users should find that confusing, even though they will. I find that example to be what I referred to above?Microsoft having to cater to people who are confused by things I find easy. I don't think Microsoft could have handled that use case in any other way, without worsening my experience. After all, I like the Start screen being the launcher for all types of apps, and I would hate for something like the old Start Menu to have been kept solely for launching "Desktop apps."

Regarding your third paragraph, I understand that those views are simply a difference of opinion, rather than anything to do with the usability of the operating system, and we both prefer our operating systems to function in different ways (at least right now), so I wouldn't suggest that people shouldn't be disappointed in or angry at Microsoft for seemingly looking to abolish the "Desktop" experience :) I would like to see it gone, but I understand that many don't like the new, more limited way of working.

[. . .]

But how is it a lie or falsehood if people do find it unusable, or harder to use? Even if they think that it doesn't work well with the mouse and keyboard, how is that false?

You and I may think differently, but as you said so yourself, everyone has different likes, dislikes, etc. I understand that some people are going to get frustrated when they first boot into Windows 8, and they're going to say all sorts of stuff that I don't agree with, but to think that they're lying or spreading faslehoods when they share their personal experience? No because they would be more in tuned with what works best for them than I would. Thinking otherwise would make me a stuck up.

My choice of words probably weren't the best at all. I meant to imply that they must be misguided or that they haven't given it a chance and they're judging before they've truly used it. It's well known that it takes some people longer to adapt to changes in software interfaces, unfortunately, so I meant that some people perhaps haven't allowed themselves the time they need to do so. A program could have the most intuitive interface ever, but if it's drastically different to the previous version, some people will still find it hard to use for a certain amount of time. However, everyone will eventually adapt, unless someone simply lacks the skills, which I don't think is the fault of the software developer, if most other people find it usable (eventually). There are probably people out there who can't use Windows 7, if people who find Windows 8 unusable exist. I expand on these ideas in my reply to Chicane-UK, above :)

[Dot Matrix]

I have played around with Windows 8 for about 1 hour now. Any mouse issues I may have had initially have been solved by the following keyboard shortcuts.

• Windows Key = Start Screen
  
• Windows Key + C = Charms Bar
  
• Windows Key + D = Desktop
  
• Windows Key + X = System Features
  

Learn them if you have not. They are incredibly easy, and make the experience so, so much better with a mouse.

Microsoft has already, if not shortly, released Windows 8 ready keyboards with Charms Bar dedicated keys on them. Should make it even easier to access.

[threetonesun]

^ Not I, says the cat.

I like a clean, uncluttered desktop -- which Windows 8 ain't.

I just installed Windows 8 on my desktop today, there's literally nothing on it. Well... there's a recycle bin, but you can get rid of that too.

So far, I think it's great. I thought Windows 7 was a good operating system, but it was really just recovering from Vista. 8, on the other hand, is the start of something new, and it's something I've felt Microsoft is taking the right step forward with (apps + desktop in the same environment).

[Matt123]

The Windows 8 desktop is an inconvenience at times, but it is far from a disaster. There will be people who like the change and people who hate the change.

[alisalem]

Hmm.. no it's not.

[Dashel]

It's ridiculous, and unfortunately, much of the media are wrongly trying to claim that the new Windows 8 experience is harder to use with a mouse and keyboard, :s influencing many readers who haven't tried Windows 8 to believe that rubbish. It doesn't make any sense.

Over the loud opinions of the two of you die-hard mousers? Hilarious.

I agree with his overall point too, the Start Screen wants deperately (and needs) to be the Start Menu and the Desktop, which does put the debatably legacy Desktop in an odd position that leads to his experience of, "the constant schizophrenic flipping between Start and Desktop environments propelling me ever nearer to total mental breakdown."

I also love how you lambast him for not right-clicking for tabs in IE, ignoring this is the app that generally ignores metro guidelines.

[MorganX]

I agree 100% with this article. Now Start8 fixes most of the problem - although I'd still like to get Aero Glass back.

Dot Matrix does not understand that mice are best for small precise movements and lots of clicking. Swiping the mouse all over the screen is slow and stupid.

You don't have to swipe with a scroll wheel. However, for people who actually use the Windows 7 Start Menu a lot, and have lots of nested folders, etc. the Start Page will be a mess. I have 1 and 1/4 Start pages on a 27" Monitor and will not go beyond that. I just search. It's a mess to replace the desktop start menu, and ugly. Aside from that it's fine to use.

[Scorbing]

have done, but thats not the point, plus http://www.startisback.com/ is way better and for the moment free..... I hate windows 8, there i said, but i really really hate it... and you can say stick with windows 7 which is what i will be doing but the problem is i repair these bloody things so I am not only stuck with it but I have to learn it as well...

Listen, I'm with you. I am Windows 7 Pro all the way, BUT the fact still remains:

Sooner or later, we all will have to upgrade to the latest and greatest, not because we want to, but because they (Microsoft) will force us to by discontinuing product support, so we really have no choice. Microsoft has made it very clear that this is the future of Windows and the end of the Start Menu so we are stuck with this dude. I hate it too...believe me...but I have to adapt.

[Dot Matrix]

Sooner or later, we all will have to upgrade to the latest and greatest, not because we want to, but because they (Microsoft) will force us to by discontinuing product support, so we really have no choice.

That's the tech industry as a whole. Not just Microsoft. Hell Apple just destroyed the iPad 3 only months after release with the iPad 4 and Mini. You cannot support tech forever, just look at XP, it's been around nearly 13 years, and trying to use it in this day and age is just nuts. There's nothing there that plays nice with modern devices. It still runs, but is archaic to use. That goes for any tech out there. Eventually even Windows 7 will be the same way.

[Zlain]

You just read it until the second period appeared... right? I'm current user of windows 8 pro (gotten from dream spark, far before its launching) Start8 solved lots of trouble.

I read most of it. You uninstalled it after one day of use and only re installed after learning about start8. One day isn't enough to moan about desktop experience. Took me a week to get used to things and I still don't know the shortcuts. So what if you got it from dreamspark...so did I...The point is, less than a day is not sufficient to draw conclusions about an operating system. Start8 doesn't solve anything if you didn't actually use the operating system for a considerable time and learnt some basic shortcuts, got used to using it etc. That is why your opinion doesn't really count for much to me.

[spaceelf]

I just sat here and read this whole thread to this point, and have come to the point where I think that all you need to get out away from your computers and shovel snow (I need my driveway cleared, it is only about a half mile long).

Ooh can I can I? I miss the fluffy white stuff.

I love Win8, but y'all already knew that. I only have a desktop and use keyboard and mouse, so there's that too. I have no idea what people are complaining about, but whatever works for them.

[Mayhem]

Large part of the people that hate Win8 simply refuge to change or adapt, some even think that OS is to be made for them

Things change, learn to adapt, for ex I dont really like also the new Start Menu, its better? yes it is, way more powerful search than Start8 or StartisBack menus

i simply use the new Win8 Start menu for 2 things, Metro stuff (weather, games,...) and pinning my 2nd usual programs that i run

basically i make Windows 8 Start Menu like it is my Second Desktop, nothing more, nothing less, all the Rest is totally Windows 7 feel

see? what's the problem then? Adapt, change the OS for you liking, using it now like that i dont even want to go back to Win7, have alot more productivity this way

1. Programs that i always run -> Pin to Taskbar

2. Programs that i run on average (ex: Games) -> Desktop

3. Programs that i run sometimes (Nero, DVD creator, ....) -> Pinned Windows 8 Start Menu (like i said, basically my 2nd desktop)

and done, almost never search for anything

[Joni_78]

I agree, start screen and some settings are not as fast to use as it was on Windows 7. After being used it for couple of months, I started to like some enchancements on explorer and under the hood + some new features so I bought it anyway regardless of it's flaws on desktop. Companies will not touch this, but I think that it will sell pretty good considering it's so cheap.

[nekrosoft13]

He is stating his opinion and I don't think he is wrong at all. The first time I tried windows 8, used a bit for a day and then got tired of it, uninstalled it and went back to 7. It was only later when Start8 came that reinstalling windows 8 could become a possibility (of course there are other alternatives and free, I'm just stating this one because it works wonders), tried it a gain with a start menu third party app... Windows 8 became what it should be no hassle, but I will say it again, whoever thought the start screen is a replacement for the start menu is wrong... is just plain wrong, at best is an alternative and very inefficient at it.

Options should be always available when they want to execute such dramatic changes... and I'm sparing the fact that they removed the transparencies and put an horrid plain color on all the windows, not to mention, the white that often get's me blind.

very true

"the constant schizophrenic flipping between Start and Desktop environments"

windows 8 is desktop disaster, it was made for tablet and touchscreen nothing else.

[spudtrooper]

Windows 8 didn't change the desktop at all. All it did is change your start buttom from a button to a page. You can pin your most used apps to the start bar or create desktop icons if you so wish, but that is all that changed aside from the many improvements to the UI, Task Manager and underlying performance increases.

Windows 8 on the desktop is fantastic

BTW, most people probably only used 4-5 programs on their start bar anyway so MS collected the data over over 17 years of start bar history and probably realized a unified start page was wiser so users wouldn't have apps seen in one area and not the other.. i tend to agree