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Windows 8 Is a Desktop Disaster

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#256 ViperAFK

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 18:18

Yeah, that's what I've been saying for a while now. That would have been a sensible place to put it, with the other contender being the right-click start corner menu. Shutting down your computer isn't a "Setting" and the Charm bar is awkward at best, especially when you have multiple monitors and the cursor can easily disappear off onto the next display. The extra click isn't the issue - it's the awkwardness of triggering the Charm bar, the tardiness of the process and the illogical categorisation of shutting down as a "Setting".


Exactly, it makes absolutely no sense for it to be there. Shutting down via the gui was much easier in windows 7.


#257 Javik

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 18:22

So, in other words, you want to run all over your OS? Smartscreen is there for a reason. Any self respected developer should be signing their apps. These pop ups are no more annoying than any other pop up you get from the OS.


Why should they? Digital signing is both expensive, and provides no guarantee that your software actually works.

#258 NeoandGeo

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 18:34

Yeah, that's what I've been saying for a while now. That would have been a sensible place to put it, with the other contender being the right-click start corner menu. Shutting down your computer isn't a "Setting" and the Charm bar is awkward at best, especially when you have multiple monitors and the cursor can easily disappear off onto the next display. The extra click isn't the issue - it's the awkwardness of triggering the Charm bar, the tardiness of the process and the illogical categorisation of shutting down as a "Setting".


With multiple monitors it's only awkward if you try to do it slow and precise. If you just jam the mouse cursor into the corners it "sticks" and you get the Charms/Start etc. to come up. Some say that doesn't work, I would guess they are trying to jam too far up towards the middle of the screen. You have to do a motion that first touches the bottom of the screen and ends up in the corner. Hasn't failed for me yet.

#259 Kaze23

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 19:58

Ahh my old friend the "it's newer so it must be better" mantra. It's my call to make usability decisions not yours ;) when I consider a change to be worth adapting to (like the superbar) I will adapt to it.


It's moreso progression, not so much "newer is better". The way people bitch and moan about change around here I'm surprised half of Neowin doesn't still use DOS.

#260 Javik

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 20:35

Doesn't make any difference how it's rationalised, the fact that there's so much polarisation should indicate that it's not "progression" but a huge risk that hasn't pleased everyone. The majority of the reaction that I saw to the superbar with Windows 7 was positive so I don't buy the argument that people are reluctant to change, they just genuinely dislike it.

#261 +Brando212

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 20:46

good greif did you miss the point? I am saying why are we getting full screen prompts and banners that take over what you are doing this has nothing to do with smartscreen but the fact its one of the ones that is showing it

i haven't seen any of those Windows Update banners, even after i do the update i don't get the restart banner, and i went 3 days for one of the updates before restarting to finish it

and the standard smart screen banner i see rarely enough that it doesn't bother me (just like good ol UAC)

#262 Kaze23

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 21:38

Doesn't make any difference how it's rationalised, the fact that there's so much polarisation should indicate that it's not "progression" but a huge risk that hasn't pleased everyone. The majority of the reaction that I saw to the superbar with Windows 7 was positive so I don't buy the argument that people are reluctant to change, they just genuinely dislike it.


You bring up the Superbar, which is a good place to pin your apps, and that pretty much made the traditional Start menu useless. I'm just confused as to what functionality many people seem to be losing, to the point that they're laughably paying money to get the Start menu back in Windows 8. Pinning apps to the Start menu? Fair enough, but anything that could've been pinned to the Start menu can be pinned to the Start screen, along with many other things that couldn't be pinned to the Start menu, i.e. folders.

#263 scaramonga

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 03:59

I'm just confused as to what functionality many people seem to be losing, to the point that they're laughably paying money to get the Start menu back in Windows 8.


Yes, this, lol!

Many are paying for that 'third party' app to get just that, and use it as an excuse for anything, to protect their 'beloved' OS, that is, Win8 :)

In all reality, they lost more when installing this piece of crap, and no app will ever make it seem otherwise :)

#264 PGHammer

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:52

Yes, this, lol!

Many are paying for that 'third party' app to get just that, and use it as an excuse for anything, to protect their 'beloved' OS, that is, Win8 :)

In all reality, they lost more when installing this piece of crap, and no app will ever make it seem otherwise :)


scaramonga, those like you that are insisting on FORCING users to choose really have no idea what the reason for being for Windows 8 (not WindowsRT) is.

WindowsRT and Windows 8, despite their UI similarity, have different reasons for being.

WindowsRT specifically targets the tablet/device space (Android and iOS) and is geared almost entirely toward content consumption.

Windows 8, on the other hand, is a superset OS - it has both the Win32 environment (minus the Start menu) that Windows 7 and before have had, and the WinRT API (in addition to being by and large cross-compatible with WindowsRT, and capable of runing a lot of the same apps).

WinRT is not meant to replace Win32 - at all (except maybe in the VERY long term - somewhere out around Windows 10, if not later). Augment, yes - replace, no.

Microsoft cannot, under any circumstances, ignore the tablet/slate/device space - neither in terms of operating system software or in terms of development for the space. Most of you know criticizing Windows 8 are well aware of it.

So why is it that you are acting like the old-school PC builders did when confronted with the first products by Falcon Northwest? (You've heard of them - the builders of those big bulky beige boxes that were, by and large, utterly another B word - boring!)

Why are you practically insisting that the PC ecosystem NOT change?

Computing IS changing and evolving - whether you, I, Google, Apple, or even Microsoft like it or not.

The Internet *alone* has changed more in just the past two years than in the 2000-2010 time frame - and its reach has changed with it.

Microsoft's choice is simple - grab the tiger by the ears and hang on. The ride WILL be bumpy; however, the alternative is to become lunch for those companies that can adapt to those changes.

And I can assure you that Microsoft no more wants to be the tiger's lunch than does Google - or Apple, for that matter.

And that means that Windows - the cornerstone of the company - must change with it.

The same applies to Google, and Apple, and everyone else.

Only time will tell whether the WinRT API will have the long life that Win32 has had - which is unheard-of in terms of staying power.

However, Win32 is not, and never has been, tied to the Start menu - if anything, Windows 8, and how Win32 applications behave in it, is hard data that proves it.

While some USERS may be tied to the functionality of the Start menu, that has nothing to do with the Win32 API.

I run mostly (but not exclusively) Win32 applications and games in Windows 8 today - could I do that if Win32 were tied to the Start menu?

The answer - as even the critics admit - is an emphatic and unreserved NO.

The whole thing is basically a tempest in a teapot at best.

#265 DavidM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 04:59

Yes, this, lol!

Many are paying for that 'third party' app to get just that, and use it as an excuse for anything, to protect their 'beloved' OS, that is, Win8 :)

In all reality, they lost more when installing this piece of crap, and no app will ever make it seem otherwise :)

It's a clean desk thing, for me at least. I don't use or care for the live tiles, so basically I've got a bunch of icon all over my nice clean desktop. Can you explain how the metro/modern ui isn't just a desktop with a bunch of icons sprinkled all over it. Yes, the "live tiles" are new but I could use rainmeter or a widget or whatever, to do the same and still have a clean desktop. Microsoft has trained me since Windows 95 to use the start menu, and other OSs followed suit.

Is it a disaster? No, but what really confuses me is that, who is anyone to tell me how to use my computer? Why do you (or anyone else) care if I install a third party app to give me functionality I want? There has to be something going on since there are a bunch of third party people churning out "start menu" apps, and a bunch people are using them. It's not as simple as people hate change, if it was easier/better for everyone then they'd be using it as it is.

Did I lose anything with "metro and no start menu" vs "start menu and no metro"? Nope, but did I gain anything? I don't think so, most of the improvements to Win7 that Win8 brought were under the hood. Can you or anyone explain what I gain with metro/no start vs start/no metro? Does having a lock screen with live tiles really benefit my desktop or laptop? Not, if I don't use "live tiles", it's just another key stroke. Thankfully that key stroke is given back easily by making and policy adjustment, and if Microsoft had left the "start menu" up to the user EVERYBODY would probably happy. I could keep on using my desktop in a manner I'm used to (and like), you if you chose to could enjoy metro and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

TL;DR - Different people want different things from their OS, it's not my place or yours tell tell how to do it, or what to install to make it the way they WANT it.

#266 xWhiplash

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:38

You know, I just bought it to use it as my main OS. I did not install much when I first tried it, but I am installing Visual Studio 2010, Office 2010, Steam, and all my productivity software. I am only 20% done with my installation.

How is this better than what we had in the start menu? At least in there, everything was all organized in folders, sub-folders, and sub-sub-folders by default. I have not even installed my Adobe suite yet...imagine the mess when that is finished.

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#267 spudtrooper

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:48

You know, I just bought it to use it as my main OS. I did not install much when I first tried it, but I am installing Visual Studio 2010, Office 2010, Steam, and all my productivity software. I am only 20% done with my installation.

How is this better than what we had in the start menu? At least in there, everything was all organized in folders, sub-folders, and sub-sub-folders by default. I have not even installed my Adobe suite yet...imagine the mess when that is finished.


You can group your apps, reduce tile sizes and hide stuff you don't use. Its not rocket science :) pin adobe stuff to superbar on desktop side if you need fast access.

#268 xWhiplash

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:49

You can group your apps, reduce tile sizes and hide stuff you don't use. Its not rocket science :) pin adobe stuff to superbar on desktop side if you need fast access.


Did you miss where I said everything is automatically grouped in folders by DEFAULT in the old start menu? I know how to group stuff, but it should be done by default just like with the folders in the start menu.

#269 TheLegendOfMart

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:55

You can group your apps, reduce tile sizes and hide stuff you don't use. Its not rocket science :) pin adobe stuff to superbar on desktop side if you need fast access.

Sure you can hide it but have you even looked in the 'all apps' section if you have loads of stuff installed, its ridiculous.

#270 xWhiplash

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 07:23

Serious question: can they refund you?


Wow what is with this forum? Did I say WAAAAA I bought this OS and it SUCKS!!!!!

No, All I did was give a legitimate complaint.

Geez, for $40 it is a decent upgrade, why the hell would I want a refund?