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Sony issuing lifetime PSN bans to PS3 hackers


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#31 Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:30

A lot of people have already said this, but I'm going to say it anyway...
It's about time! Microsoft has been doing this a while now.
Finally, maybe I can play Killzone and not have to worry about the online cheaters spoiling the game for everyone else.

A Question, ok so if you are legally buying your games, and do nothing wrong AND use CFW, you run the risk of getting banned.... ok...
So, if you're not actually doing anything illegal or something that can violate (even a part of) the terms based on your preferred choice of console, why bother to use mods in the first place?


#32 +Brando212

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:40

A Question, ok so if you are legally buying your games, and do nothing wrong AND use CFW, you run the risk of getting banned.... ok...
So, if you're not actually doing anything illegal or something that can violate (even a part of) the terms based on your preferred choice of console, why bother to use mods in the first place?

to be able to run extra things on your console such as Linux or XBMC or even custom themes for example

#33 Shane Nokes

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:48

The rules are the rules. Putting an account on a modified console or putting a modded console online violates those rules.

My advice is the same as always...if you don't like the rules play in a different sandbox. :)

#34 Aheer.R.S.

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:09

to be able to run extra things on your console such as Linux or XBMC or even custom themes for example

Ah, ok, (never done it so didn't know)

#35 +Brando212

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:12

Ah, ok, (never done it so didn't know)

yeah, there's plenty of things you can do by modding a console besides just cheating at and pirating games, but the small group that does do those two things has to ruin it for everyone :/ (and this is why we can't have nice things)

#36 HawkMan

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:33

I'm sorry, but there is no large group of people WP mod their console to apply themes, and run Linux. The large majority of those who mod the Xbox, pretty much very close to allot them, do it to pirate.

#37 +Brando212

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:46

I'm sorry, but there is no large group of people WP mod their console to apply themes, and run Linux. The large majority of those who mod the Xbox, pretty much very close to allot them, do it to pirate.

that's true now a days BECAUSE of Sony and MS being so strict. the ones that used to mod their consoles for legit reasons now find that it's not worth the risk anymore. which is why it's mostly pirates anymore

#38 Shane Nokes

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 08:58

that's true now a days BECAUSE of Sony and MS being so strict. the ones that used to mod their consoles for legit reasons now find that it's not worth the risk anymore. which is why it's mostly pirates anymore


Legit folks never put those consoles online to begin with.

Microsoft has always been strict as regards modified hardware and software connecting to the service. That's not going to change.

#39 +Brando212

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:03

Legit folks never put those consoles online to begin with.

Microsoft has always been strict as regards modified hardware and software connecting to the service. That's not going to change.

you're probably right, but it'd still be nice if Sony and MS could find a way to detect those with malicious intents but still leave those that aren't doing anything wrong alone

edit: thinking about it, as far as your first statement goes, those that hack their console to pirate usually don't put them online either, so that point is kinda moot. it's mostly the cheaters that are the problem, and like i said in a couple posts up, you would think they'd be able to detect the actual cheating in game without having to just go after every modified console

but there's not really much I can do about it, just wishful thinking I guess

#40 Shane Nokes

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:07

you're probably right, but it'd still be nice if Sony and MS could find a way to detect those with malicious intents but still leave those that aren't doing anything wrong alone


Why?

The console or profile are modified. That means MS has unsigned code connecting to their online service.

Part of what makes LIVE secure is them not allowing modified hardware or unsigned code.

They should trade security because you want to run unsigned code that can do serious harm if it is infected and can spread?

Sorry, but no. That's a horrible idea.

There is a reason why all the apps are fully sandboxed and require proper digital signatures.


I can't go into more details regarding how or what they do for detection and such. I can say that the modded folks online aren't just sitting there being innocent.

I was one of the folks handling this exact situation. This is a huge chunk of how I've spent the last few years...tackling this issue on LIVE.

#41 +Brando212

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:14

Why?

The console or profile are modified. That means MS has unsigned code connecting to their online service.

Part of what makes LIVE secure is them not allowing modified hardware or unsigned code.

They should trade security because you want to run unsigned code that can do serious harm if it is infected and can spread?

Sorry, but no. That's a horrible idea.

There is a reason why all the apps are fully sandboxed and require proper digital signatures.

my question to you is how would changing what your home screen looks like to you or installing XBMC affect the Xbox Live side of things? if done correctly they should be able to be kept completely separate and not effect security or that portion of the code that connects to the online service (I would think anyway)

(btw I'm very noob at programing so if this idea is just plain impossible I apologize, like i said, just wishful thinking)

#42 Shane Nokes

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:21

my question to you is how would changing what your home screen looks like to you or installing XBMC affect the Xbox Live side of things? if done correctly they should be able to be kept completely separate and not effect security or that portion of the code that connects to the online service (I would think anyway)

(btw I'm very noob at programing so if this idea is just plain impossible I apologize, like i said, just wishful thinking)


So here is where the problem comes in.

First you modify the hardware and install a modified firmware.

Who wrote it, and what exactly is coded into it? Can you guarantee 0 malicious code? Would you know if there was?

So let's just say there is a piece of bad code there. Now it has direct access to LIVE. Now what about each additional piece of code you want to install to do various things.

Can you verify the integrity of that code and the security of the service?

No.

MS controls things for a reason, and a huge portion of that is security.

#43 Yogurtmaster

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:46

Source: http://www.computera...to-ps3-hackers/


It took them this long to respond. It's almost the end of the PS3's life for goodness sake.

#44 saltysaltybk

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:59

The Code of Conduct is also part of the Terms of Use.

http://www.xbox.com/...l/CodeOfConduct

I helped write it...so I know precisely what is in there.

Arguing with me on what I wrote won't get you very far. :p


How very conceited. Code of conduct != TOS.

And if you must know, you'll feel great knowing that I also used to work for MS- Business Apps division, churning out the predecessor to Dynamics.

#45 HawkMan

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:05

that's true now a days BECAUSE of Sony and MS being so strict. the ones that used to mod their consoles for legit reasons now find that it's not worth the risk anymore. which is why it's mostly pirates anymore


Well MS never sold the original XBOX at a loss so that people could hack it and make it run XBMC. besides, as many that ran XBMC back in the day, most of them also played pirated games and I'd say most of them during the lifetime of the xbox was done for pirating anyway, the rest was bonus. after the 360, most where used "primarily" for XBMC sure, but again, not intended purpose and not what it was sold for. you can't complain that MS locks down their heavily subsidized hardware so you can't use it for non intended purposes that don't make them any money

my question to you is how would changing what your home screen looks like to you or installing XBMC affect the Xbox Live side of things? if done correctly they should be able to be kept completely separate and not effect security or that portion of the code that connects to the online service (I would think anyway)

(btw I'm very noob at programing so if this idea is just plain impossible I apologize, like i said, just wishful thinking)


In the early days of the 360 there was talks of a officially signed XBMC port, and MS was even on board willing to help and sign it. it simply vanished after a while though, I guess the devs didn't want to handle an actual real project with actual expectations and requirements.