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It's a staple feature in Windows

You can't let that hinder progress though. Many here want to laugh at this, but the forward viability of the menu is almost null. There are new technologies emerging that make using the menu quite cumbersome. Touch, Kinect, you name it, Aren't going anywhere. As these technologies grow, we'll need an OS that can grow with them.

It's impossible to move forward, by clinging to outdated ideals.

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Its funny, the people that want the menu back believe that they are in some sort of majority, the people that are happy with the start screen (me included) believe they are in some kind of majority, while back in the real world the actual majority don't voice an opinion on forums for tech topics so these opinions are tarnished by our own bias towards what we see others saying (but we see other saying stuff on the same posts that interest us, so the bias grows).

I don't want the start menu back in 8, but I definitely think the majority would want it back if you swapped their Win 7 PC for a Win 8 PC

The majority of people who own a PC in the world are not tech savvy, they want a PC that lets them use facebook, messenger and emails, store/print their photos and the odd game, they don't want to be flung into a whole new world of tiles and have to learn how to use their PC all over again

We (The tech heads) are the minority

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Bringing back the start menu is unnecessary. The start screen fulfils the role of the start menu and has much more functionality.

If you have been using/relying on it since Windows 95, you will feel that it's missing (that is, the Start button on the taskbar). It takes time to adjust to.

I personally don't like how it covers the whole screen. For a tablet PC, it's great, but for a desktop user, it's just eye candy, and not actually useful (ie. doesn't do more than the traditional more-compact Start menu).

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Why, because their opinion is opposite of yours?

[. . .]

No. It's because a lot of what they say doesn't make sense and they don't appear to have researched/found out the reasons for its removal.

If you have been using/relying on it since Windows 95, you will feel that it's missing (that is, the Start button on the taskbar). It takes time to adjust to.

[. . .]

For some people, perhaps, but it didn't take me any time to adjust :)

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You can't let that hinder progress though. Many here want to laugh at this, but the forward viability of the menu is almost null. There are new technologies emerging that make using the menu quite cumbersome. Touch, Kinect, you name it, Aren't going anywhere. As these technologies grow, we'll need an OS that can grow with them.

It's impossible to move forward, by clinging to outdated ideals.

I agree, but there will always be desktop-only users, who like using the traditional Start menu - why can't Microsoft make it optional?

I also agree with having a consistent UI across devices.

So I guess that makes my opinion neutral (non-biased)!

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If you have been using/relying on it since Windows 95, you will feel that it's missing (that is, the Start button on the taskbar). It takes time to adjust to.

I personally don't like how it covers the whole screen. For a tablet PC, it's great, but for a desktop user, it's just eye candy, and not actually useful (ie. doesn't do more than the traditional more-compact Start menu).

It's more than eye candy. At the press of a button, I'm taken to a page where I can see my calendar, news updates, weather updates, social updates, etc. I love leaving the Start Screen open while I walk away, it has certainly got the attention of my room mates who are always asking about it.

I agree, but there will always be desktop-only users, who like using the traditional Start menu - why can't Microsoft make it optional?

I also agree with having a consistent UI across devices.

So I guess that makes my opinion neutral (non-biased)!

Always be? No. If you want to know why it's not "optional", it's this:

- Destroys the purpose of Windows 8, and the "re-imagining" of Windows.

- Destroys the uniformity of platforms.

- Creates a ****ty UX to support.

Plus, we have had an actual Microsoft employee on here (no, NOT me), explain that dragging out the code just wasn't working out. The menu wasn't removed on a whim. It just didn't support what Microsoft wanted to do.

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I don't want the start menu back in 8, but I definitely think the majority would want it back if you swapped their Win 7 PC for a Win 8 PC

The majority of people who own a PC in the world are not tech savvy, they want a PC that lets them use facebook, messenger and emails, store/print their photos and the odd game, they don't want to be flung into a whole new world of tiles and have to learn how to use their PC all over again

We (The tech heads) are the minority

That is all true, and it's something that irritates me (as a software developer and designer) yet also something I have to accept and understand. I feel the average user's aversion to change could be harming innovation; either that, or it could have the potential to harm innovation if companies like Microsoft and Facebook listen to all of their complaints.

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It sounds to me as if that writer, and the writer of the report it's based off, have no idea what they're talking about. But I could be wrong :)

T me the actual article and the quotes in it read as

"The start button and menu is NEVER coming back"

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I've been using Windows since 3.1, I think I stopped using the start menu in XP, even back then I pinned the things I needed to the taskbar, or built a faux index through a folder and shortcuts.

Windows applications have always had a terrible habit of dumping everything into a start menu folder,unfortunately that's still true with the start screen. It would be nice if there were some requirement to clean up what's left after an install... you don't see a pile of icons and documents after installing something in OSX or Ubuntu.

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That is all true, and it's something that irritates me (as a software developer and designer) yet also something I have to accept and understand. I feel the average user's aversion to change could be harming innovation; either that, or it could have the potential to harm innovation if companies like Microsoft and Facebook listen to all of their complaints.

Actually in my experience, the lack of a start button/menu seems to only be an issue with the tech savvy crowd. the average/dumb user on the other hand takes to the start screen intuitively right away.

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I don't want the start menu back in 8, but I definitely think the majority would want it back if you swapped their Win 7 PC for a Win 8 PC

The majority of people who own a PC in the world are not tech savvy, they want a PC that lets them use facebook, messenger and emails, store/print their photos and the odd game, they don't want to be flung into a whole new world of tiles and have to learn how to use their PC all over again

We (The tech heads) are the minority

Conversely, they can do most of everything they do ONLY in tiles, and never have to see the confusing world of the desktop. I would love to update my Grandfather's computer to Windows 8, because "here's e-mail, here's the internet, here's solitaire" is about all he can handle.

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Actually in my experience, the lack of a start button/menu seems to only be an issue with the tech savvy crowd. the average/dumb user on the other hand takes to the start screen intuitively right away.

Yes, because most young kids just love their 'Fisher Price' toys, and the start screen makes them feel right at home.

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As much as I would be infinitely happier if they did bring the start menu back, it's not going to happen. Aside from anything else, the third party options do a good enough job, so why should Microsoft bother?

because businesses don't want to use a 3rd party app that may break if microsoft releases a windows update. Their staff would be pulling their hair out trying to figure out how to use the start screen for the first time.

I believe the start screen was created solely to get people to buy from the app store, that is why microsoft is refusing to allow people to use the start menu.

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No. It's because a lot of what they say doesn't make sense and they don't appear to have researched/found out the reasons for its removal.

For some people, perhaps, but it didn't take me any time to adjust :)

I personally do not agree with the "research".

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Change is good, but when you're constantly trying to click a part of the screen that you've clicked for the past 18 years, its quite a hard habit to get out of ;)

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sounds like a puff piece for Stardock

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I don't know. I am using Start8 the last time I switched over to the start screen was pretty much when I first installed Windows 8 because I wanted to play with everything but after having it for a week or so I have spent 90% of my time on the desktop.

Tyler - I spend about that much time on the desktop as well - and that's with some ModernUI/RT apps, such as MetroTwit, but no third-party Start Screen alternatives.

The reality that I can do so, while others cannot, simply means that we are different in terms of usage style - not that one is necessarily *right* or *wrong*.

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Conversely, they can do most of everything they do ONLY in tiles, and never have to see the confusing world of the desktop. I would love to update my Grandfather's computer to Windows 8, because "here's e-mail, here's the internet, here's solitaire" is about all he can handle.

I think if you got 2 average joes, one who had never used a PC before and one who was used to using Windows 7

I think person who had never used a PC before would feel much more comfortable with 8 once they found the invisible start button vs trying to learn how to navigate Windows 7's start menu

Whereas the person who was used to using 7 would find it much more difficult to adjust to not having the start menu and having to learn the new start screen

I thought I could train my brain to see the new start screen as a big start menu, but it didn't work out like that, it is a separate OS to me, I see it and treat it as its own life-form and have had to learn it as something other than Windows

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I don't know. I am using Start8 the last time I switched over to the start screen was pretty much when I first installed Windows 8 because I wanted to play with everything but after having it for a week or so I have spent 90% of my time on the desktop.

Tyler - I spend about that much time on the desktop as well - and that's with some ModernUI/RT apps, such as MetroTwit, but no third-party Start Screen alternatives.

The reality that I can do so, while others cannot, simply means that we are different in terms of usage style - not that one is necessarily *right* or *wrong*.

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<snipped>

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I thought I could train my brain to see the new start screen as a big start menu, but it didn't work out like that, it is a separate OS to me, I see it and treat it as its own life-form and have had to learn it as something other than Windows

Interesting. I mostly use OSX, and once full-screen apps were implemented, I left a lot of apps in full screen mode on separate desktops, so to me, the start screen is just launchpad + full screen apps + live tiles that give me a bit more information than what I get in OSX.

There is some annoying crossover, but I decided all my metro apps would just be my full screen apps, and I've been enjoying using it so far.

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For those saying none techy people will want/need start menu, iPad sales disagree with you

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It's more than eye candy. At the press of a button, I'm taken to a page where I can see my calendar, news updates, weather updates, social updates, etc. I love leaving the Start Screen open while I walk away, it has certainly got the attention of my room mates who are always asking about it.

Cringe alert, do you even sit back and read what comes out of your mind?

You are like a walking advert for Microsoft.

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Did you pin Control Panel, My Network Places and Printers and Faxes to the Start menu too? I wouldn't, however, it's handy having them (close by) in the Start menu - they're easy to get to.

I have always appreciated the organization of the Windows Start menu (applications and their folders can be arranged alphabetically).

No. I rarely need the Control Panel, I pin network folders that I use, and I set my printer once and never go back. FWIW, it's pretty easy to get to the Control Panel in 8, you just right click where the start menu used to be. It's also easier to open the Command Prompt from there.

Also, the alphabetical / textual organization always annoyed me. I much prefer the visual organization of OSX or the start screen.

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For those saying none techy people will want/need start menu, iPad sales disagree with you

iPad isn't a desktop computer, and the IOS UI hasn't changed since its inception. Sure it might have been refined along the way but if you gave someone who had only ever used an original 2G iPhone an iPad 4 they would instantly know how to use it.

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