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Boz

Windows 8 sales dissapointing

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me sucked, xp great. vista sucked, w7 great... see the pattern. and zune, wp and w8 all have one thing in common, metro/modern.

Oh wow, two misunderstandings in one small post. Words just don't explain things well sometimes. I see how you meant that now. You meant 1 good 1 bad, I read it as all other versions of Windows sucked, haha. Yeah, they seem to have done a great job of doing that pattern, and W8 looks to follow right along. And I see you were grouping Metro products. I don't like W8, but to be fair, Zune was up against VERY tough competition against the incredibly popular iPod, and WP7 was the first iteration of the overhaul of the MS mobile platform that was long since dead. WP8 seems quite nice to me, and I'm definitely an Android guy. I wouldn't pick it over an Android myself, but I would suggest it over an iPhone to friends that like that kind of simplicity in a smartphone. Though you could be on to something still. Metro feels like it COULD be good... but it's just not. They take an interesting concept, then manage to make it's usability so terrible and make it look so.... aged I suppose you could say. I'd definitely agree that MS needs to give up on Metro, or at least strongly consider redesigning the idea. At least I will give them that it's unique.

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Because it's what people expect. The number of people out there who will pay $100+ for a OS upgrade without getting new hardware is dwindling. When your phone, game console, and toaster get free updates as long as they're supported, what's the real argument for charging $xxx to upgrade your PC?

This is especially true (for OSX and Windows) if there's no particularly good reason to upgrade, as is the case for most people running Windows 7, or was the case for a lot of people running Snow Leopard.

Microsoft makes no money from hardware sales in the same manner that Apple does. As a result, they don't have the same ability to subsidize the cost of their OS. The new Windows Store may help give them this leverage, but it is too early to know for certain.

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BTW, Windows 8 was designed so you wouldn't have to manage apps. In the developer preview there wasn't a way to close them outside of task manager. Now you can alt-f4 or you can drag them down. Windows 8 was designed so you don't have to do "chrome management" anymore and tasks would be managed/tombstoned/closed by the system.

Maybe you should have just bothered to learn something before you judge something? The forums/world/interwebs have been abuzz with how to approach windows 8 and the basic gestures/functionality that make it easier to use.

By exit, I mean get to the start screen. Not process management.

Your second paragraph perfectly illustrates the problem with Windows 8. Except for Notification Center and the recent apps list (both examples of bad UI), iOS is obvious. Things aren't obscured behind arbitrary gestures or button taps. By and large, Windows Phone is the same way. Windows 8 isn't. That there's a necessity for gesture/pointer guides shows the inherent problem with Windows 8's UX.

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Microsoft makes no money from hardware sales in the same manner that Apple does. As a result, they don't have the same ability to subsidize the cost of their OS. The new Windows Store may help give them this leverage, but it is too early to know for certain.

Conversely, Microsoft is making money selling Windows to OEMs for new PCs, while Apple buries that cost in it's hardware. I don't know what Microsoft's financials are, but my guess is Windows upgrades to the home consumer is not a huge market for them.

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See what I mean Growled. They are not exactly the people you to hold up as a paradigm of knowledge. They often don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

In fact back in the day they wouldn't hire me after I corrected a Geek Squad manager who was talking about a PC that was in there. He said it had to be some sort of custom one-off custom built PC that they wouldn't know how to fix.

It simply had a BTX motherboard in it...which while rare isn't any different to work on than an ATX board for the most part. I pointed that out and he was ****ed that I knew something he didn't. That interview ended quickly. :p

LOL we have the same issue in the UK with PC Worlds "Geek squad" my mate applied for a job with them, hed just finished an HND in computing support, he didnt even get an interview because....they claimed he was overqualified LMFAO.

they used to claim to be Intel certified..........hehehe that always cracked me up in their adverts! Im dyson certified :p

I wouldnt let PCWorld staff tinker with a V-tech my first laptop never mind an actual PC!

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Conversely, Microsoft is making money selling Windows to OEMs for new PCs, while Apple buries that cost in it's hardware. I don't know what Microsoft's financials are, but my guess is Windows upgrades to the home consumer is not a huge market for them.

A drop in the ocean compared to their real market, corporate is where MS make their dough.

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A drop in the ocean compared to their real market, corporate is where MS make their dough.

Right, where they're still trying to push Windows 7.

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Generalized search (outside of application searches) is no different really than it was in Windows 7 - the issue is hooking applications into it If an application (regardless of what API it uses) is going to hook into Search, it needs a *how*. (I've so far not seen how applications would - or even could - hook into Search in Windows 7, let alone previous versions of Windows. Hooking into Search in Windows 8, on the other hand, is better defined, though actual USE of the methodology by apps and applications is slapdash. That does indeed need fixing.)

Better applications/apps for RT are indeed needed - I'm not disputing that. (If anything, I stipulated it.) However, what is the incentive for the *developer* to abandon Win32 for WinRT (in terms of API)? If anything, there's a disincentive, due to the WinRT API not being supported by Windows 7 or earlier. The results so far (from Win32 developers) are half-baked RT apps (Kindle for RT) or no RT apps at all. The few RT apps that are worth anything aren't coming from developers with Win32 histories.

It's the presentation of unified results that is far superior in Windows 7 IMO.

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How can this be? There is something you don't like about Windows 8? :o I didn't think that was possible...

Just when I was beginning to think you were a Microsoft controlled drone...

lol! he better watch or he'll be leaving the same exit as Mr Sinofsky.

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Well the good news is that Windows 9 will hit the stores much sooner than usual if Windows 8 is a failure.

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Well the good news is that Windows 9 will hit the stores much sooner than usual if Windows 8 is a fail.

Failure, not fail. Fail is a verb. You can't "be" a verb.

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Failure, not fail. Fail is a verb. You can't "be" a verb.

English is not my native language but thanks anyway for making that post better...

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By exit, I mean get to the start screen. Not process management.

Your second paragraph perfectly illustrates the problem with Windows 8. Except for Notification Center and the recent apps list (both examples of bad UI), iOS is obvious. Things aren't obscured behind arbitrary gestures or button taps. By and large, Windows Phone is the same way. Windows 8 isn't. That there's a necessity for gesture/pointer guides shows the inherent problem with Windows 8's UX.

I call BS.. If you can learn iOS, Windows 8 is easier because windows 8 is absolutely consistent. In iOS you may need to swipe up, swipe down, use two fingers or swipe up then down then across and dance around to do certain things. in Windows 8 you learn hot corners, that is it.

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But my point still remains the same. Why would MS price Windows close to OS X now when they failed to do so in the past?

Windows 7 was also priced at $50 initially. Windows 8 is priced at $40. I don't see any major change?

By exit, I mean get to the start screen. Not process management.

Your second paragraph perfectly illustrates the problem with Windows 8. Except for Notification Center and the recent apps list (both examples of bad UI), iOS is obvious. Things aren't obscured behind arbitrary gestures or button taps. By and large, Windows Phone is the same way. Windows 8 isn't. That there's a necessity for gesture/pointer guides shows the inherent problem with Windows 8's UX.

How is switching apps in iOS any more obvious than Windows 8? :/ Many iPad owners (I know) don't even know how to switch between apps, they just drop back to home screen and go from there.

None of the following operations are "obvious" in iOS compared to Windows 8

- Switch apps

- Close running apps

- Uninstall apps

- Re-arrange apps

- Orientation lock (AFAIK is impossible in default iOS config)

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Well the good news is that Windows 9 will hit the stores much sooner than usual if Windows 8 is a failure.

No, it won't. Even with the Vista "failure", Microsoft sill took two years to develop and test Windows 7. They'll continue on with that to make sure the ends meet for Windows 9.

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Well the good news is that Windows 9 will hit the stores much sooner than usual if Windows 8 is a failure.

I figure people will slowly start to learn Windows 8 and many will like it. People don't like change and Windows 8 is a big change.

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Windows 7 was also priced at $50 initially. Windows 8 is priced at $40. I don't see any major change?

How is switching apps in iOS any more obvious than Windows 8? :/ Many iPad owners (I know) don't even know how to switch between apps, they just drop back to home screen and go from there.

None of the following operations are "obvious" in iOS compared to Windows 8

- Switch apps

- Close running apps

- Uninstall apps

- Re-arrange apps

- Orientation lock (AFAIK is impossible in default iOS config)

nope it's there in iOS, it's done in the same place that you "close" running apps

the close running apps, is the only thing you can't actually do without jailbreaking from that list.

all that list is (when you double tap the home button) is the recent app list, it doesn't actually allow you to close apps

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Microsoft Still in Denial

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/Microsoft-still-in-denial#c58aba81c006344edbdc6a10b014cbe1e

..." indeed. Instead of fixing, they are playing the blame game. Countless of knowledgeable people (Windows experts and developers, not the usual anti-MS brigade) hammered them in the past twelve months about the very obvious issues with Windows 8, yet Redmond acted as if the whole town went through a self-hypnosis course. "La la, can't hear you!".

If the shock over the Windows 8 sales is indeed real and unexpected at MS HQ, then I am truly shocked." - wastingtimew?ithforums

..." It's a floor wax. No, it's a dessert topping. Microsoft's new whatever-the-F-it-is operating system is a confusing, Frankenstein's monster mix of old and new that hides a great desktop upgrade under a crazy Metro front-end. It's touch-first, as Microsoft says, but really it's touch whether you want it or not (or have it or not), and the firm's inability to give its own customers the choice to pick which UI they want is what really makes Windows 8 confounding to users. " - Paul Thurrott

..."

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^ Can't believe I actually agree with Thurrott this time.

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At first W8 seems very overwelming for mouse/keyboard users. I myself was like... wth is this crap but after playing with it for a little it grew on me. Plus.... using the Start8 modifation has made W8 a keeper with me. I have noticed a few portable apps I use with W7 dont run correctly but thats normal for a new OS (some apps not working correctly). Just my opinion, if you dont like W8 stay with Seven and stop complaining... Happy Holidays!!!

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Just my opinion, if you dont like W8 stay with Seven and stop complaining... Happy Holidays!!!

Just my opinion, if you do like W8, keep away from Seven and stop complaining about us complaining... Happy Holidays!!!

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nope it's there in iOS, it's done in the same place that you "close" running apps

the close running apps, is the only thing you can't actually do without jailbreaking from that list.

all that list is (when you double tap the home button) is the recent app list, it doesn't actually allow you to close apps

You can close running apps by tap-holding. obvious, right? :p

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Though, a little off topic, has anyone noticed the 3 biggest names in computing are all called Steven? Or a variation of?

Steve Jobs... Apple, when iProduts were at the most innovating (If I spelled that correctly)

Steven or Stephen Sinofsky... Formerly of Microsoft. Responsible for win8.

Steven Hawkins... Professor, (I beleive he had contributed in the development of his chair, tho I could be mistaken)

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Microsoft's biggest mistake was doing away with the start menu and not giving desktop users the choice of which they would rather use, Metro or Desktop. Fix that and Windows 8 would take off overnight.

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Microsoft's biggest mistake was doing away with the start menu and not giving desktop users the choice of which they would rather use, Metro or Desktop. Fix that and Windows 8 would take off overnight.

What if I want both? I love having my desktop. I also love having an attractive Start screen to look at, and interactive Metro apps to use.

Plus, Microsoft is making a clean - clean - break from their old image. They spent the past two year re-inventing themselves, Windows 8 is setting the base of future Windows releases, much like Windows 95 did.

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