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Windows 8 sales dissapointing


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#181 DavidM

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:35

So, in order to get to Metro Start, I'd have to go through another Start Menu? Yeah, that's a disaster in the waiting. I shouldn't have to click Start > Start > app.


When I used Start8, I never had it boot directly to the desktop. I just wanted a start menu once I got there, all that flipping back and forth was just silly. Once I was on the desktop, I was doing obviously doing something that couldn't/wouldn't or wasn't available to use in Metro, so why have to constantly flip back and forth.

I understand their reason for doing what they did, I just think they did it really stupidly. Let people use their desktops they way they WANT to, I realize having a unified ui between phone/tablet/pc is what they want, but ffs, let them/us warm up to the idea first. I'm now using W8 without Start8 at all to really try and give it a honest shot, so far it's not bad, but I hate the metro to desktop to metro to desktop to metro, every time I want to open a new program. I use foobar, firefox, thunderbird and play games on my desktop, nothing I need or want metro involved in, BUT when there is a good browser that will let me use plugins, and check my mail & play music they way I want to, then I might be interested in metro, until then why make me flip back and forth?


#182 Elliott

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:34

How is switching apps in iOS any more obvious than Windows 8? :/ Many iPad owners (I know) don't even know how to switch between apps, they just drop back to home screen and go from there.
None of the following operations are "obvious" in iOS compared to Windows 8
- Switch apps
- Close running apps
- Uninstall apps
- Re-arrange apps
- Orientation lock (AFAIK is impossible in default iOS config)


You're right, and those are all examples of poor design in iOS, though the push and hold mechanic is starting to become an accepted standard in touch UIs for editing.

I said that the double tap of the home button to reveal the app switcher is an example of bad UX, and it's something I don't like in iOS. The swipe from the right to reveal the charms bar in Windows 8 is the same way. Other than the intro that teaches the basics of Windows 8, there's no cue to even hint that the charms bar is there. For somebody that's thrown in to Windows 8 (as many corporate users and potential buyers using demo units may be), there's nothing to really hint them towards those basics.

FYI, orientation lock is possible in iOS. It's in the poorly designed app switcher. :p

#183 +LogicalApex

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 19:03

So, in order to get to Metro Start, I'd have to go through another Start Menu? Yeah, that's a disaster in the waiting. I shouldn't have to click Start > Start > app.


Not accurate. Via Start8 you can actually launch any Metro app from the "Start Menu" just like any other app. So you would just go Start -> Store (for instance) and not Start -> Start- >App. The only time you would go to the "Start Screen" is if you wanted to see it and you have a variety of option to configure how that happens.

The reality is, Microsoft could have done a similar thing themselves with a lot better integration, but like I said earlier, this is more about the Windows Store than about our actual use of the OS.

The Start Screen is pushed heavily to ensure we are heavily encouraged to use the new Store to increase their revenue and for developers to create Store apps to help them push back against iOS and Android. What remains to be seen is if they overreached this time.

This is nothing new... This is classic Microsoft. They arrive late to the party and get aggressive in trying to push back and use their customers as pawns. But I'll stop adding reality here again. As it is clear we only discuss the fanboy passion points and don't really have honest discussion nor do we actually critique Microsoft here.

#184 MorganX

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 19:17

The Start Screen is pushed heavily to ensure we are heavily encouraged to use the new Store to increase their revenue and for developers to create Store apps to help them push back against iOS and Android. What remains to be seen is if they overreached this time.


Well that ain't working cuz despite how many apps are in the store, there's not a whole lot worth having. The Xbox Music app won't recognized music added to the library if it's on removable storage (so copy gigs of music to your limited local Surface storage) duuuh.

Because of the limited marketshare small devs are wary of developing for the platform and MS isn't subsidizing anyone.

I really believe MS is too bloated and lost touch with what consumers want from a software perspective. The OS and hardware are excellent, but I'm not seeing things move fast enough with regards to apps. And it's just absurd that the Xbox Music and Video apps don't directly support removable locations added to the library. The OS does, Windows Media Player does? I mean, who's running those dev teams.

I'm excited about the 8 platform but something just isn't right at Microsoft anymore, it's as #@#% up as Windows 8's search. Yeah it works, but you make me not even want to bother.

#185 Growled

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:17

I understand their reason for doing what they did, I just think they did it really stupidly. Let people use their desktops they way they WANT to, I realize having a unified ui between phone/tablet/pc is what they want, but ffs, let them/us warm up to the idea first. I'm now using W8 without Start8 at all to really try and give it a honest shot, so far it's not bad, but I hate the metro to desktop to metro to desktop to metro, every time I want to open a new program. I use foobar, firefox, thunderbird and play games on my desktop, nothing I need or want metro involved in, BUT when there is a good browser that will let me use plugins, and check my mail & play music they way I want to, then I might be interested in metro, until then why make me flip back and forth?


That's the way I feel. Metro apps are terrible. Since I end up using the desktop mostly, I have no desire to switch back and forth. Someone needs to step up their game and make decent Metro apps. I have nothing the start screen itself, and I want to use it. However the functionally is not there yet.

#186 DavidM

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 03:44

That's the way I feel. Metro apps are terrible. Since I end up using the desktop mostly, I have no desire to switch back and forth. Someone needs to step up their game and make decent Metro apps. I have nothing the start screen itself, and I want to use it. However the functionally is not there yet.


I gave up on Windows 8 on my desktop, just too much back and forth as I noted earlier, but still using it on my laptop without Start8. I usually just surf and listen to music, maybe a game of plants vs zombies or a nice spider solitaire game I found in the store. I hope they improve the music app, but until then I can deal with IE10 and Foobar.

I hope Foobar and Firefox come out with metro apps with the same functionality.... but that's probably hoping for too much.

#187 PGHammer

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:12

Right, where they're still trying to push Windows 7.


Because all too many corporate clients are running (still) XP, if not 2000 Professional. (No - I'm not kidding.)

They can push 7 because, for the most part, the hardware requirements are barely over XP on the client side (pretty much if you have AMD Athlon II or Intel Core 2 or equivalent desktops, you're set) and there's little to no retraining involved migrating from XP or 2000 Professional. (The issue with Windows 8 on the corporate side are the retraining costs, not the hardware costs.) Once Windows 7 is in place, upgrading to Windows 8 (especially with Software Assurance) becomes a matter of training costs (which, once the economy imprtoves, won't be as big an issue as it is now). It is - like it or not - STILL the economy, folks.)

The lack of Windows 8 uptake is also largely economics-driven - new versions of Windows (back to, and including, XP) are primarily sold with new PCs - sales of Windows upgrades are small beer typically. Windows 8, however, has three major issues to contend with:

1. Hardware requirements, for the most part, are unchanged compared to Windows 7. (Only Hyper-V absolutely requires the latest of CPUs from Intel or AMD; however, that particular feature is for outliers, not the average user.)
2. Lack of compelling software to drive operating system upgrades. There has not been a compelling application OR game to drive sales of ANY Windows OS since the death of Windows 9x. Even the latest version of the productivity suite of choice - Office 2013 - is, at best, an XP/Vista killer (it still runs on Windows 7, in addition to Windows 8). It's not a bad productivity suite by any means - if it were, I'd neither use OR recommend it. However, a driver to upgrade to Windows 8 it's not.
3. OS upgrades are a luxury, not a necessity (for most users). For the most part, what users need from an operating system will only change if/when the hardware they are using changes. With hardware upgrades ALSO a luxury due to a poor economy, OS upgrades also got pushed back.

For the most part, the changes in Windows 8 are basically just one more excuse for those that likely would not have upgraded in any case to NOT upgrade. (That's right, haters - I'm saying that all of you that are mad about the chnages in Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 wouldn't have upgraded had things remained as they were regardless.)

#188 threetonesun

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 22:38

Because all too many corporate clients are running (still) XP, if not 2000 Professional. (No - I'm not kidding.)


They never tried to sell ME or Vista to businesses either, Microsoft has always planned on skipping generations when targeting the business market. They could do whatever they wanted with 8, and know it wasn't going to impact the businesses sales.

Windows 9 will, if this metro thing doesn't shake out, have a more businesses oriented interface, or a businesses edition.

#189 OilersFan

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 23:22

I really hope Windows 9 has a more modular design so I customize it for the device I want to use it on.

#190 Shasoosh

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:59

They tried to create something new. IMO metro is not for pcs at all. I'm not sure about mobiles too. When I take a glance on my phone i want those tiny bits of information and that's it. I don't want to wait for the tiles to change so I can see who mentioned me on twitter etc'.

#191 jesseinsf

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:20

Not everyone was born in this generation dude. You can't expect a 70 year old lady or man to understand something as technologically challenging as Windows 8.

You can't expect most 70 year olds to understand any PC.

#192 jesseinsf

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:41

You know not everyone have time to learn something new and needlessly. Most people just want things to work.

For example when you get in a brand new car, you should just be able to oeprate it's equipment but know that because it is a new car, things will be in different places but functions will be excatly the same. Besides, it should take no longer than 5 minutes or less to get to know the new car. Just like it should be like with computers. Computers has lost too much GUI standards that many are becoming confused of which OS is which and how to use it, especially a brand new OS.

Windows 8 has a new GUI and we all don't have the luxury of time to get to know where things are and how to nagivate them.

Everyone has time, they just don't want to make the time.

#193 jesseinsf

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:47

For you, yes, great stuff, I'm happy for ya. :)

I'm happy for you noticing that others are enjoying Windows 8. BTW did you know you can give a name to each column in the Start screen? Something you could never do in the Start menu. BTW have you tried "right clicking" the bottom left corner and see what you get?

#194 FaeGiN

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 11:50

Actually all change is progress, just not necessarily in the direction you want. :p

Actually, wrong. Some change is REGRESS.
:p

#195 Shane Nokes

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:45

Actually, wrong. Some change is REGRESS.
:p


I already went over this post at another point in the thread with someone else. Read that post and you will understand my point. ;)